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QUOTE:...""My prediction is that ignition keys, the clutch pedal and handbrake will all but disappear from mainstream cars within five years; conversely turbochargers, cruise control with automatic braking and HID lights will become universal.""
I don't think ignition keys will disappear for a while. There might be various remote devices instead of keys now, but often they're used in conjunction with a starter button.
Starter buttons have made a reappearance after an absence of about 40 years - but I can't see any point. In what way is a remote, non-contact 'key' together with a starter button better than a normal key that works the door locks, the steering lock and starts the engine?
I reckon the clutch pedal will be with us as long as the manual gearbox is around. What will see off the manual gearbox is not conventional automatics or semi-automatics, but the increasing popularity of hybrids, with singe-speed electric drive and thus no need for gear changing of any kind.
I think the mechanical handbrake will stay around for a long time too, as it's a simple mechanism that does its job very well and is easy to use.
One thing I see becoming universal on new vehicles - even possibly a legal requirement, is on-board cameras linked to a kind of 'black box' data recorder.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 10/03/2014 at 00:11
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There is no point in the push button starter. As a man, keys go in my pocket, but are uncomfortable when sitting down. The best place to put them in a car is the ignition/steering lock. Worst is the BMW which requires the key to go in slot AND then push a button above it - stupid. My wife's Juke has keyless-go but it's a pain.
The Tesla does without a pushbutton at all. It knows the key is there and you simply put he car into Drive and off you go.
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I have a VW with electronic handbrake and find nothing wrong with it in operation, one might as well criticise people who drive automatics, non-power steering, unassisted brakes, etc. The system works well and is unobtrusive in day to day driving. My wife's car has a manual h/brake and offers no advantage that I can see in daily use.
I may change my tune if expensive repairs become necessary I suppose, but I remember my father saying to me back in the day that electric windows were a nonsense and just added to the unnecessary equipment waiting to go wrong. So, how many here have had a window breakdown then?
Old Fogieness is a state of mind not an age I think!
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So, how many here have had a window breakdown then?
Well, my MB's drivers window regulator wore out, jumping at top of travel, which in turn had worn a groove in the motor gear too, so new regulator on a serious frame plus new motor, all done now and working perfectly again, my indy reckons little if any change from £400 for parts when i eventually get the bill.
The auto box is still working beautifully but its been maintained properly in order to have a long life.
You'll certainly enjoy the bill for the Passat rear calipers if you dare keep it that long, might be worth getting down and and inspecting them closely, i haven't seen one close up but apparently the rear cover corrodes/splits allowing salt water ingress which wrecks them in no time, some TLC patching and waterproofing (maybe strip and lube, don't know enough) could save you many hundreds of pounds.
Nothing wrong as such with an electric parking brake, just no advantage either, useful together with hill hold, for people who can't drive, but of no benefit at all for those who can, and the cost to fix will eventually help to write the car off sooner, which is i am sure part of the reason for such devices.
I doubt you'll see many current model passats running round at 15 years old, especially if they've got the DSG box too, VW's good residuals rely on long term value not just the badge.
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well, that's one, just a few million to go in order to establish general uselessness of any improvements to the car since the days of starting handles and toal loss cooling systems then!
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QUOTE:...""well, that's one, just a few million to go in order to establish general uselessness of any improvements to the car since the days of starting handles and toal loss cooling systems then!""
Prompts me to think of past technological improvements that fell by the wayside. One that comes to mind is inbuilt hydraulic jacks. I remember seeing an early post-way MG saloon - a YA or YB, that had 4 inbuilt hydraulic jacks. Another innovation that didn't last was front quarterliights opened by turning a knurled knob instead of just flipping a catch and pushing it open! But opening front quarter lights disappeared from cars before anyone had a chance to develop electric ones, I think! And what about Hydrolastic / Hydrogas suspension?
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Ford V8 Pilots and (I think) Standard Steel Bentleys/Rolls also had the 'Jackall' built in jacking system. On my MG Y I found it really useful when working on brakes etc.
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I remember EFI intorduced across the I series engine range by BL in the late 1980s. Car Mecgabics magazie said they would be a nightmare in the years to ceom as the EFI would be difficult to service. In reality, it was the best part of the car.
And hydraulic brakes were similarly poopoohed..
Syncromesh was viewed as a unessential addition. Rubber bushes in teh suspension were regarded as heresy by the Vintage Car Club.
Electric windscreen washers were a complication not needed.
In reality most cars over 20 years old are unpleasant in modern traffic, and often uncomfortable and unsafe... Anyone fancy changing oil every 3,000 miles?
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In reality most cars over 20 years old are unpleasant in modern traffic, and often uncomfortable and unsafe... Anyone fancy changing oil every 3,000 miles
Really? My Merc is a model that could be over 20 years old. An absolute delight in modern traffic, as are many others.
Changing oilevery 3000 miles is a darn sight more fanciable than the horrific depreciation most people are daft enough to tolerate by buying a new/nearly new car, or indeed the repair costs. Oh well, more older cars for those who appreciate them. :)
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Oh well, more older cars for those who appreciate them. :)
Agreed, i sometimes have to drive the company pool cars, usually universally disappointing Fords but last time a Passat complete with its electric parking joke.
Quite why people put themselves in debt to own these rapidly depreciating things is beyond my understanding, you couldn't pay me enough to take one.
What a relief it is to get back in the old MB, 18 now but little different to the start of the model run 8/9 years earlier, quiet refined pretty and smooth as silk and doesn't bore me to tears, i'd rather take the bus if i had to drive most modern cars, and as for spending my hard earned on them, hahaha.
Edited by gordonbennet on 10/03/2014 at 19:55
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I had a spin in my neighbour's A6 yest. Felt like a country bumpkin in a car for the first time. Got in, first of all where is the ignition key? Answer- there isn't one, throw the plip thing somewhere and push a button. Where's the button? Found it, press it- nothing. Ah yes, put seat belt on -still nothing. Oh yes, foot on brake, still nothing. Mebbe press clutch in? Bingo it started. Now then, where's the handbrake? There isn't one. Press this button, nothing happens. Don't need to press the button- just move off. Right, onto the road. Steering very light. Ah yes, different modes, which one is best? No idea - just like washing machines, probably only ever use one mode! Look at the Sat Nav - yes it's great and really cool it pops up somehow. But I know where I'm going ta.
Wouldn't like to own it out of warranty. Complete nightmare. Spray-on tyres are £200 quid a corner too. Glad to get back into son's old Corolla- a proper car! Where did Audi go wrong?
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Thanks to technology, we no longer see.....
The choke and clothes peg.
The stick on anti-mist panel for the rear window.
Contact breaker points.
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What a relief it is to get back in the old MB, 18 now but little different to the start of the model run 8/9 years earlier, quiet refined pretty and smooth as silk and doesn't bore me to tears, i'd rather take the bus if i had to drive most modern cars, and as for spending my hard earned on them, hahaha.
GB, does the news section on HJ hold any interest for you?
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30 years ago, a lot of people dismissed the idea of diesel engines in cars, The general view was that they were dirty, smelly, rattly and low on power, and they might be OK for taxis. Now over 50% of new cars here have diesel engines, diesel powered cars have won Le Mans several times running and modern diesels are clean, quiet and have plenty of power.
Similarly, now people dismiss pure electric cars because of limited battery range. We're still waiting for the breakthrough in affordable battery technology, but if and when that comes, and electric cars are able to equal or improve on the range of petrol or diesel ones, there will be a mass move to electrics.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 11/03/2014 at 09:43
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I can't say I miss carburettors "automatic chokes" and all the mechanical trickery that was needed to make them work. Fine if you like tinkering with an old classic on the weekend, but give me fuel injection and a decent engine management system any day.
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Quarter-lights; manually positioned side-mirrors high on the side window; side mirrors above the front wheels; indicator flippers; daylight beneath my feet.
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...and steering column gear-changes. Probably at one time they were seen as the future, since they allowed a bench seat in the front if the handbrake was also re-sited on the right or a pull-on type on the dashboard.
Clutchless semi-automatics are nothing new - there was the Manumatic option on Rootes cars in the 1950's. Another thing that has disappeared is electrically controlled overdrive units - pointless now that most cars have 5 or 6 speed gearboxes anyway.
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Another thing that has disappeared is electrically controlled overdrive units - pointless now that most cars have 5 or 6 speed gearboxes anyway.
Except that you had 7 gears at the flick of a switch when needed.
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But often the overdrive switch or the overdrive operating solenoid failed...
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But often the overdrive switch or the overdrive operating solenoid failed...
No doubt less ££ than a DSG failing.
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imilarly, now people dismiss pure electric cars because of limited battery range. We're still waiting for the breakthrough in affordable battery technology, but if and when that comes, and electric cars are able to equal or improve on the range of petrol or diesel ones, there will be a mass move to electrics.
If the range could be sorted, I'd welcome an electric car.
Get in, flick a switch, no gears and instant torque from a standstill. Modern internal combustion engines are boring now, they don't sound interesting, so you might as well have the subdued hum of an electric motor.
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GB, does the news section on HJ hold any interest for you?
Sometimes, i like to keep an eye on whats happening, as some members of my family run newer cars.
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Good stuff. :)
I was discussing this thread with a work colleague today who drives a 02 Corolla T Sport who loves its simplicity, Q car looks and pace.
He can't see himself moving it on anytime soon.
I just get bored looking at the same dashboard after a few years and it is one of my few vices! (changing cars) ;)
I have to admit that NOTHING (imo) looks as good as some of the 60's cars in terms of design.
Edited by groaver on 11/03/2014 at 21:22
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I was discussing this thread with a work colleague today who drives a 02 Corolla T Sport who loves its simplicity, Q car looks and pace.
Nice car, i have a bit of thing for the later model, the supercharged version, debadged of course.
Tweed jacket cloth cap corduroys brogues and a pipe, lull the blighters into thinking you're an old duffer then whoosh cheerio.
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I just get bored looking at the same dashboard after a few years and it is one of my few vices! (changing cars) ;)
Ha groaver I'm with you on that - I've never had a car longer than about 2 years so far....looks like the MX-5 might last me 3-4 years though as I can't find anything in budget that can match it for all-round awesomeness....!
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The one car that I miss from previous ownership is a Cappuccino. I'd have one again in a heartbeat as a second car. The MX5 is its big brother!
Can't say that I miss the rustiness of older cars. Technology is good for many automotive improvements.
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I do NOT miss:
contact breakers and points
grease nipples
wind down windows.
gearlevers
non assisted steering
no parking sensors
non ABS brakes
No ECU to interrogate
no seam sealant and rampant rust.
low efficiency wheel bearings.
carburettors
leas in petrol
All things beloved by people who dislike technological change - perhaps they would be happier with horse drawn sleds? :-)
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All things beloved by people who dislike technological change - perhaps they would be happier with horse drawn sleds? :-)
I don't dislike technological improvements, I dislike having a technological solution for a problem that does not exist.
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All things beloved by people who dislike technological change - perhaps they would be happier with horse drawn sleds? :-)
I don't dislike technological improvements, I dislike having a technological solution for a problem that does not exist.
Which are:?
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Electric handbrakes? Ideal for the aged and infiirm and rear disk braked cars..
Of course, anyone who buys a French built car with one will have problems but anyone who buys a French built car has serious issues of ignorance. :-)
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Maybe I have been very lucky, but my S-Max is stuffed full of new technology from Bi-Xenon lights, heated front screen, cornering lights, ventilated seats, full tyre pressure monitoring and EPB etc etc. The car will be five years old soon. So far, nothing has gone wrong.
Says he, spitting in the gutter to ward off the evil eye..........
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Was your Ford made in France?
Thought not...
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Modern cars are for the lazy.
My vintage car has:
Manually operated ignition advance
Two dog engaged forward gears (no sycromesh)
No reverse gear
Manual control of oil flow
Split brakes - footpedal for rear, lever for front
Air lever - bit like a manual choke
Hand, not foot throttle
Sharp mascot pointing to the front (illegal from 1934 on)
And no indicators - hand signals only.
Much more fun!
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Of course, anyone who buys a French built car with one will have problems but anyone who buys a French built car has serious issues of ignorance. :-)
Hi Madf.
I can only presume that your pseudonym is accurate!
I have had the extreme pleasure of running 2 Citroen Cx's, 2 Renault 25's and 2 Citroen XM's and our fleet at the moment includes french cars by choice.
It's a personal thing and, I assure you, that one thing I am not is Ignorant!
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Of course, anyone who buys a French built car with one will have problems but anyone who buys a French built car has serious issues of ignorance. :-)
Hi Madf.
I can only presume that your pseudonym is accurate!
I have had the extreme pleasure of running 2 Citroen Cx's, 2 Renault 25's and 2 Citroen XM's and our fleet at the moment includes french cars by choice.
It's a personal thing and, I assure you, that one thing I am not is Ignorant!
And I have seen Xantias where the handbrake was properly applied - and the car still rolled away 30 minutes later..
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And I have seen Xantias where the handbrake was properly applied - and the car still rolled away 30 minutes later..
I did 150k miles in a Xantia without it ever running away, though I do habitually park in gear. My Dad taught me to do that after seeing his Father's car creeping down a slope in 1948.
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MAdf, you are of course right in that modern cars are far superior overall, however, I think that the electric handbrake is indeed one of those solutions to a problem that never existed. I'd never actually thought of it as useful to the infirm, now that you mention it , maybe it should be marketed as a disability aid, an optional extra for those that need it. The problem for those of us that like to keep a car a while is that even the likes of Toyota have had failures and it's a £1000 job to fix. It's another on the list of things that can write off a perfectly decent car, hence to be avoided if possible.
Having said all that, I see a future where most cars are CVT hybrids in a decade or two, and we just have to get used to new technologies. I've driven a Prius and been very impressed- and after researching it, reliability is top notch and there is, apparently, less to go wrong than for example, a common rail diesel with DPF, dual clutch flappy paddle technology. We shall see!
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Electric handbrakes? Ideal for the aged and infiirm and rear disk braked cars..
Of course, anyone who buys a French built car with one will have problems but anyone who buys a French built car has serious issues of ignorance. :-)
I'd say if you can't pull up a handbrake then you shouldn't be driving anyway! LOL
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I'd say if you can't pull up a handbrake then you shouldn't be driving anyway! LOL
Rubbish.
I am extremely fit - even for a man a third of my age (!!!) .. BUT even I struggles with some disk braked handbrakes. I can put them on but getting them to bite requires an almighty pull. My wife just cannot do it (although she is string enough with her backhand)..
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I do NOT miss:
contact breakers and points
grease nipples
wind down windows.
gearlevers
non assisted steering
no parking sensors
non ABS brakes
No ECU to interrogate
no seam sealant and rampant rust.
low efficiency wheel bearings.
carburettors
leas in petrol
All things beloved by people who dislike technological change - perhaps they would be happier with horse drawn sleds? :-)
If you need parking sensors you shouldn't be driving.
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"If you need parking sensors you shouldn't be driving."
Possibly true, but the operative word is 'need'.
I don't need parklng sensors: I can reverse up to a wall or barrier without hiting it, but ther are a convenience which is nice to have.
I could start my first car, a 1955 Austin A50, first time every time with judicious use of the choke when cold, but it's more convenient to have that 'judgement' done for you.
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Just too much unecessary stuff to go wrong these days. Not a problem for those able to lease or buy new, but huge bills looming for others. Sadly, electronic rubbish means cars are thrown away, such a waste, far before they would have been 10 years or so ago.
Cars, like so many other items these days, are disposed of when they are fundamentally still fit for purpose, just because it is uneconomical/impossible to repair them. So much for cars being eco-friendly today.
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QUOTE:..."" Sadly, electronic rubbish means cars are thrown away, such a waste, far before they would have been 10 years or so ago.""
I seem to remember people were saying the same thing 10 years ago. Hopefully, since then, the electronic stuff has become more reliable, so perhaps cars might be starting to last longer again. Having said that, I still question the need for anythng other than a simple mechanical handbrake on ordinary passenger cars!
Edited by Sofa Spud on 14/03/2014 at 11:56
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Electronics...
Comapred to mechanical things, well designed electronics are light years ahead. They self check, stay in tolerance and are easily diagnosed.
I rememeber Car Mechanics magazine writing teh same rubbish when the Montego went EFU. They complained a 10 year old one would be scrap as the EFI would go wrong and be too expensive to fix.
The best part of the Montego was the EFI which was very reliable.
I have driven daily cars made form 1929. Without doubt modern cars are teh best Period. And Parking aids are a boom in crowded parking lots..
Anyone think satnav is a waste of space and prefer a map? No.. thought not...
Luddites. :-). Next you will be decrying the demise of the starting handle.. Muppets did in the 1960s you know... Having driven a car which would only start with the handle, I vehemently disagreeed at the time.
Next you will all tell me you don't use mobile phones.. and these modern computers are no match for an abacus...
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Electronics...
Comapred to mechanical things, well designed electronics are light years ahead. They self check, stay in tolerance and are easily diagnosed.
Really? Try telling that to many people who have had the problems of not being able to get a car fixed! My sister had a Focus TDCI and after countless times of it going back to the dealer and having parts changed everytime, She was told "Sorry we don't know what is wrong with it, You'd be better off getting rid of it". She took their advice and traded it in there and then for an almost new Ford, Roll the clock forward 6months. She gets a Knock on her front door, "Mrs X ? Did you own that car parked there? Was there anything wrong with it when you sold it? I have bought it and the garage have tried many times to fix it and can't"
I rememeber Car Mechanics magazine writing teh same rubbish when the Montego went EFU. They complained a 10 year old one would be scrap as the EFI would go wrong and be too expensive to fix.
Funny thing is, I don't remember seeing that many 10 year old Montego's on the road but, I did see plenty of them as young as 7 in the scrappy when I used to go to them for parts for my old classics.
Luddites. :-). Next you will be decrying the demise of the starting handle.. Muppets did in the 1960s you know... Having driven a car which would only start with the handle, I vehemently disagreeed at the time.
Next you will all tell me you don't use mobile phones.. and these modern computers are no match for an abacus...
Madf, Why do you have to result to making insults to anyone who dares to challenge your thoughts and opinions?
For what it is worth, One of my cars has a floor mounted mechanical handbrake with rear discs brakes. It's not any different in effort required to the other one with drums on the back.
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Luddites. :-). Next you will be decrying the demise of the starting handle.. Muppets did in the 1960s you know... Having driven a car which would only start with the handle, I vehemently disagreeed at the time.
Next you will all tell me you don't use mobile phones.. and these modern computers are no match for an abacus...
Madf, Why do you have to result to making insults to anyone who dares to challenge your thoughts and opinions?
Normally people read smilies as a joke...
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I don't need parklng sensors: I can reverse up to a wall or barrier without hiting it, but ther are a convenience which is nice to have.
I thought that was what bumpers were for - until they disappeared.
I do miss a good bumper, like on the Volvo 240's.
We seem to have gone backwards with climate control. Yes it's all done automatically but most cars don't have dual level temperature distribution anymore. I don't mean having separate levels either side of the cabin. Modern cars can't supply warm air to the footwells and cold air to to the centre vents at the same time, apart from a few like BMW and Mercedes.
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I'm with you 100% on what used to be called an "air-blending" heater/fan. Curiously, it was one thing that British Leyland cars actually did quite well, all the way to the last of the line Rover/MGs.
I recently discovered that a headlight flash on my car (post-facelift 2012 Avensis) is a four beam job, with conventional dipped beam and the polygon-shaped main beam coming on in synch. It is actually a very long time since I last saw a four beam flash and for some reason I miss it. A flash doesn't seem like a flash with only two lights!
The last standard-spec cars I can remember doing this were probably Fords - miscellaneous Granadas, and XR 2/3/4 models, with auxiliary lights wired in to main beam, although I remember a few Yuppie-era VWs and Audis being similarly equipped.
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I may change my tune if expensive repairs become necessary I suppose, but I remember my father saying to me back in the day that electric windows were a nonsense and just added to the unnecessary equipment waiting to go wrong. So, how many here have had a window breakdown then?
I had the 2 front windows stop working within weeks of each other on a Laguna. The drivers side went first. £300 to sort it! The passenger one remained broken when i traded it in.
Its not the technology that worries me, just the bills when it goes wrong. Electronic handbrake might be brilliant when new, but what about when the car is 7 or 8 years old? It just means used cars might go back to being as unreliable as they were in the 70s, just for different reasons.
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I am soory but Lagunas are made by a company notorious for incompetence with elctronics..
Judgng an industry by the inability of Renault is unfair. Their UK market share has not halved in the past 10 years for no reason.
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