I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know!

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Thu 27 Feb 2014 13:56
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - slammerjammerman

Hi everyone I'm new to the forum but I've been enjoying the site recently. This is quite a long post so thanks in advance for reading it!

I bought a car last week that has turned into a complete waste of time, money and energy. I bought it off a guy who buys and sells cars and he said this one was a part ex. In the advert it is stated that everything is working 100% on the car. I phoned and had a chat with the guy and he assured me that everything is working with the engine and gearbox. So I made my arrangements to go and collect the car. On the way he phoned me to say that the engine management light had just come on and that he had just taken it to a garage. He said the garage had confirmed that it was only a glow plug issue. I asked him again are you sure that it is just a glow plug? He said yes and that he will try and get it fixed before I arrived. When I arrived the engine was running and the car was driving ok. He was driving, we went to a car park and I looked the car over checked the VIN numbers and did a HPI check. One of the doors didn’t open and there was a crack in the front grille. He seemed to be in a rush to get to a meeting and put me under pressure. He said " let’s stop dancing around how much do you want to pay?" I offered him 1500 and he accepted 1550. I gave him the cash and he wrote out a receipt.

It was only at that point when he then tried to start the car and it had an obvious starting problem. He assured me again that it was just a glow plug issue. We dropped him off and the drive back home was a complete nightmare it kept stalling out went cold. Once it warmed up it was ok on the motorway.

I took it straight to a garage the next day, they changed the plugs and fuel filter and investigated it over the course of a few days. They gave me the bad news that the entire fuel system needs replacing and it would cost in the region of £2000.

A bit fed up at this point with the £300 garage bill and still a broken car. I then took a look at the car over the next few days and only found more issues. A compression problem in cylinder 4, the EGR valve was knackered and the turbo has seem to have blown since.

I have stopped using the car and issued the guy a notice of rejection. He sent me a two page letter saying that he was open and honest and he told me all the faults with the car.

This is not the case, he stung me along the whole time saying its just a glow plug issue. He obviously uses this a lot as when I called up he confused me with someone else and gave the same excuse about that car as he did the one he sold me.

He wrote sold as seen on the receipt but I would never have bought the car as if I had known all the faults and it was never sold as "spares or repairs"

He is trying to say that I am some sort of supper mechanic with x-ray vision who can take one look at an engine and instantly know all the faults!

I'm feeling really mugged off here and he isn’t playing ball at all. My only course of action is the small claims court. I know my case is strong but he keeps saying that his brother is a lawyer and is already trying to spin it that I knew all the faults with the car.

Can he get away with it if he is persuasive enough?

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Thu 27 Feb 2014 14:50
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - anonymous coward

Sounds like you were a bit quick to buy but he is in the wrong and you are owed a full refund.

I would suggest writing to him again demanding payment of the monies in 14 days. Try to negotiate with him. If he continues to give you the runaround issue a claim in the County Court. It sounds like it's your only course to get your money back but you may not.

I'm in a similar situation. See my thread.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=104250

Sold as seen on the receipt means squat. He's committed several offences so bide your time and once you have your money back report him to trading standards.

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Thu 27 Feb 2014 18:33
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - slammerjammerman

He is trying to say that I bought the car knowing all the existing faults. Frankly this is impossible as I only made a visual inspection and was rushed into making a deal before even starting or driving the car.

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Fri 28 Feb 2014 12:14
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - anonymous coward

A judge in a court would see through that. Why would you attempt to drive a car away with that level of fault if you knew about it?

Do you have a screenshot of the online advert? Was there an online advert?

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Fri 28 Feb 2014 21:57
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - slammerjammerman

I have a print out of the advert where it states the car is in 100% working condition with full sevice history.

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Sat 1 Mar 2014 00:24
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - anonymous coward
If you've got that you're absolutely golden.
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Fri 28 Feb 2014 20:09
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - anonymous coward

Been some interesting developments on my thread you may want to have a look.

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Fri 28 Feb 2014 21:50
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - slammerjammerman

Hi all, He purswaded me that it had an issue with glow plugs and I thought the problem was with that. It was only when I took it to a gargage when I found out the full extent of the damage to the engine.

I sent him a lenghty explanation of exact what happened that day and I have offered to drop the car off at an auction house for him and that I will wait 14 days to get the funds. He replied sayining that he would go ahead and book the action but was not 100% clear that he would give me a full refund. I have asked him to give me a signed statement saying he will pay for the refund in 14 days.

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Fri 28 Feb 2014 22:37
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - anonymous coward

I wouldn't agree to anything unless he gives you it in writing. I would be careful about giving him the car as well. If you've rejected it you don't have any obligation to give him it back but you must make it available for him to pick up.


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Sat 1 Mar 2014 00:19
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - slammerjammerman

He is refusing to give me the money upfront. I know what your saying I should get it in writing. I agreed to have the car towed to a local auction house to get him to agree to take it back. I will only do it once he signs a written statement saying he will pay me the money back within 14 days. If he doesn't pay then im off to court to get the money back.

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Sat 1 Mar 2014 00:24
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - anonymous coward
Wise. Keep me updated.
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Sat 1 Mar 2014 08:08
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - Collos25

If the company he trades under or he himself declares bancruptcy then you will say goodbye to your money its easy to get a court order but as you have found its not so easy to get the actual money.An order from the courts for the payment of the money I believe involves getting a firm of debt collectorswhich again will cost you.

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Sat 1 Mar 2014 12:53
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - anonymous coward
It's not always in a traders interests to declare bankruptcy or liquidation etc. I'd stick at it for now but keep your cards close to your chest and keep him guessing what you'll do next.
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Thu 6 Mar 2014 14:16
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - slammerjammerman

As far as I know he has no limited company so the trades are in his own name. I also found out through land registry that he owns his own property. I could attempt to get a charge onto his property if successful in court.

We have been emailing back and thought to try and get it clear what his intensions where after auction, it turns out he wants to send me the funds from the auction minus the auction fee. The car won’t start so I doubt it will get much at all in auction and I don’t see it as my responsibility. He is adamant that I am in the wrong and I don’t know the law. He said he has been in touch with citizens advice, trading standards and lawyers and they all confirm he does not have to give a refund. I doubt they would be giving him that advice if he was telling them the truth. He seems to think that I bought the car knowing all the faults wrong with it but I only got to make a visual inspection. There is no way that I could have known the faults. It took the garage a couple of days investigation to find out the true extent.

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Thu 6 Mar 2014 23:15
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - anonymous coward

" He said he has been in touch with citizens advice, trading standards and lawyers and they all confirm he does not have to give a refund."

of course he has. He's done all of those things and they've definitely confirmed his suspicions. tut.

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Thu 6 Mar 2014 15:41
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - Collos25
It's not always in a traders interests to declare bankruptcy or liquidation etc. I'd stick at it for now but keep your cards close to your chest and keep him guessing what you'll do next.
He does not have to you have to turn him bankrupt which costs a large amount of money if you are succesful and there is enough money in the trading account because his own assets will be in a different name or so tide up you will not be able to touch them then you may be in with a chance.As stated before its getting the actual money thats the hard bit getting the order from the SCC is relatively easy.

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Fri 28 Mar 2014 09:42
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - slammerjammerman

I thought I was in safe hands with trading standards. The guy from TS has been working on the case for over the last month so I left it in his hands. When we spoke and I told him what happened truthfully he agreed with me 100% that this was not right and that he could do something. Now that he has been in touch with the trader the trader is telling him that he sold it to me cheap and that I knew all the faults (a complete lie). TS don’t want anything more to do with it as they say it is one mans word against another’s and that they now believe that nothing criminal has taken place and that they can offer no further advice on civil matters. I was astonished. They are basically taking the side of the trader because he is adamantly stating he explained all the problems up front like the honest chap he is. What a lying B******, I can't believe TS are falling for it!

Edited by slammerjammerman on 28/03/2014 at 09:44

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Fri 28 Mar 2014 12:32
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - alan1302

I can't believe TS are falling for it!

That's the problem with cases like this - it's one persons word against another.

Might be worth taking legal advice

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Fri 28 Mar 2014 18:17
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - skidpan

In my experience Trading Standards are a total waste of time. At best they give advice, sometimes it is wrong. They will never back you up. Traders know this.

Only way forward is to use a solicitor with experience of these matters, but than can cost.

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Sat 29 Mar 2014 10:56
I bought a lemon! Trader doesn't want to know! - pd

There seems some confusion as to what Trading Standards does. Trading Standards are concerned with criminal offences - not civil.

It is illegal to sell a misdescribed (e.g. wrong model), clocked where the mileage has been stated as correct, unroadworthy car or use unfair trading terms. In these cases, TS may be interested or may take a closer look at the dealer.

However, an argument over a fault, post-sale condition or anything else on the car post-sale is a civil matter between buyer and seller and, apart from hand out a leaflet, TS are not a free legal service and won't really be interested as there is nothing they can really do. They can't take anyone to court as they are not one of the parties involved - only the buyer and seller.

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