Busted for No Business Insurance

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Thu 20 Feb 2014 19:55
Busted for No Business Insurance - Hamsafar

I wonder if anyone knows the answer to this scenario.

Wife's friend's husband was stopped by the Police driving his wife's car on valentines day.

He is a florist and was dropping off a bouqet of flowers to a customer who had ordered them late in the day and begged him to deliver them that day. He was looking for the house number in a residential street and the Police drove over and stopped him and asked if he needed any help and he said no I have found the address thanks, and they asked what he was doing and he said delivering these flowers, I own a flower shop, and they said come into our car and checked his details and then said they are seizing the car as he has no business insurance on this car, just SD&P. He was explaining it was a one-off for 45 minutes and then the next day had to pay £150 to get the car back. They said you will have to go to court and get 6 point in 3-4 months.

This doesn't ring true to me, as under EU law and now UK law, I'm pretty sure you are always insured to RTA requirements, even if you drink and drive, have bald tyres or are careless and so assume even if you didn't state it was for business...

This seems to support this, but is very difficult to decipher, but it seems to say you always have third party RTA cover and the insurance company can't claim their costs from the insured.

Any views?

Thanks.

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Thu 20 Feb 2014 21:03
Busted for No Business Insurance - daveyjp
An episode of traffic cops featured a case the same as this. Woman delivering had broken down, police came to help and she ended up with a charge for no insurance as no business cover.
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Thu 20 Feb 2014 21:40
Busted for No Business Insurance - Simon

>> Any views?

Yes, he won't get away with it on technicality grounds. The simple fact remains that he was not insured for the purpose of business use, which is exactly what he was doing at the time. He might as well have had no insurance at all...

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Fri 21 Feb 2014 08:14
Busted for No Business Insurance - Dwight Van Driver

Simon is right.

Long shot.....

Under the circumstances write to the Insurance Company explaining what occurred and ask under these circumstances whether they would be prepared to have held themselves at risk. If so to confirm this in writing. Approach CPS/Court Office with this fact and see if they will drop charge.

Otherwise a Not Guilty plea and produce letter at Court.

As I said ^^^^^^^^^^ long shot as nothing ventured nothing gained.

dvd

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Fri 21 Feb 2014 08:42
Busted for No Business Insurance - Brit_in_Germany

Also, wife's friend's husband should check their own insurance to see if there is any provision for driving other cars.

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Fri 21 Feb 2014 14:54
Busted for No Business Insurance - cockle {P}

Business use is business use, doesn't matter for how long or how many occasions.

My wife was once in a car while she was at work that was stopped and impounded. Her company had two buildings in the town within 10 minutes walking distance, she and the driver were permanently headquartered in one building but on this occasion four of them had to go to the other building for a presentation by a senior manager. On the day it was raining so her colleague offered to drive the four of them rather than walk and get wet, my wife had offered but he wanted to show off his new car, he got pulled just as they were arriving outside the other building. Unfortunately he only had SD&P and commuting to normal place of work cover, vehicle impounded and trip to court for no insurance followed.

Ironically, my wife had full business cover because she occasionally drove for work to another town and had other vehicle cover, if she'd taken her car as offered or even been driving his it wouldn't have been a problem......

Our local police are quite hot on the delivery drivers for the local takeaways, apparently many drivers take the work on to make a bit of extra money but 'forget' the business insurance requirement.

Edited by cockle {P} on 21/02/2014 at 14:56

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Fri 21 Feb 2014 16:11
Busted for No Business Insurance - Hamsafar
An episode of traffic cops featured a case the same as this. Woman delivering had broken down, police came to help and she ended up with a charge for no insurance as no business cover.

Thanks for all the replies .. Was this the one a few weeks ago? If so at the end of the programme, it said no further action was take.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/148

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Sat 22 Feb 2014 08:01
Busted for No Business Insurance - dacouch

It's either a police force actively targeting private cars delivering flowers on Valentines day or a traffic officer with the sense to realise there's a very good chance a private car being used as over spill for flower deliveries on Valentines day won't have the suitable insurance.

Either way they were correct and the driver was not insured for damage to other vehicles and they gave a correct ticket.

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Sat 22 Feb 2014 11:05
Busted for No Business Insurance - RT

It's either a police force actively targeting private cars delivering flowers on Valentines day or a traffic officer with the sense to realise there's a very good chance a private car being used as over spill for flower deliveries on Valentines day won't have the suitable insurance.

Either way they were correct and the driver was not insured for damage to other vehicles and they gave a correct ticket.

Except that if the driver had cover for other vehicles on his own business policy, then he would have been covered by that.

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Wed 26 Feb 2014 09:15
Busted for No Business Insurance - Hamsafar

Either way they were correct and the driver was not insured for damage to other vehicles and they gave a correct ticket.

How so? I alreaty posted a link to the Road Traffic Act that states that's not the case.
Any dispute is a contractural dispute between the insurer and the insured and does not affect the minimum legal requirement for insurance.

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Wed 26 Feb 2014 10:05
Busted for No Business Insurance - Peter D

DOV does not apply when driving the spouses car. It does seem ha*** but he had no business insurance so 6 points and £300. Nasty. Regards Peter

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Wed 26 Feb 2014 20:07
Busted for No Business Insurance - RT

DOV does not apply when driving the spouses car. It does seem ha*** but he had no business insurance so 6 points and £300. Nasty. Regards Peter

Depends on the wording - mine states "The insured whilst driving any private motor car not their property or hired to them" - so I would be insured to drive wife's or son's cars on the same third-party terms as my own car.

Wive's, spouse's, civil partner's property is always separate.

Edited by RT on 26/02/2014 at 20:09

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Wed 26 Feb 2014 10:20
Busted for No Business Insurance - Bromptonaut

How so? I alreaty posted a link to the Road Traffic Act that states that's not the case.
Any dispute is a contractural dispute between the insurer and the insured and does not affect the minimum legal requirement for insurance.

I think you're reading something into RTA s148 that's not there.

It creates a position in respect of those driving outwith policy terms analagous to the 'umbrella' provided by the Motor Insurers Bureau for the wholly uninsured.

It ensures the third part victim is recompensed - a liabilty that might run to millions for life changing injuries. Any money paid out is recoverable from the insured (para 4) and is not insurance within the meaning of the act.

If the florist in the OP feels lucky he can run s148 as a defence. He'll still get points plus a bigger fine (or worse) and higher costs of prosecution.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 26/02/2014 at 10:22

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Wed 26 Feb 2014 20:13
Busted for No Business Insurance - dacouch

As others have posted, you're miss reading the RTA.

It's not a contractual dispute between you and your Insurer.

It's up to you to prove you have suitable Insurance for the time and use when challenged by the police.

The Insurance on that vehicle does not cover business use, this is not a non disclosure issue, it's simply you did not purchase the correct cover.

If you have business use on your own policy and driving other cars, you may be covered depending on the exact set up of the business and your position in the business and your Insurers. This is something you would need to check with them

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Thu 27 Feb 2014 09:57
Busted for No Business Insurance - Peter D

The reason Insurance companies restrict the use of DOV is to stop the one spouse from buying a weekend/fun car in the other spouses name but driving it under DOV. Several insurance companies I contacted informed me that the vehicle cannot be registered at the same address as you, so if anybody is thinking of driving there wifes, sons, etc car don't, unless your insurance says otherwise.However there were still excessive numbers of this happening and a lot of insurance companies insist the other car is insured in it's own right. Be warned, do not just ask the call centre staff for there vies on this you have to get hold of a manager. Endless times the centre get it wrong. Regards Peter

Edited by Peter D on 27/02/2014 at 10:11

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Thu 27 Feb 2014 14:41
Busted for No Business Insurance - dacouch

It would be more accurate to say you can drive your son or wife's car provided they're not registered to you unless your Insurance specificially says you can't.

The Certificate of Insurance and the Policy state any restrictions.

It's important to check the Certificate and Policy to see what you are covered for and any restrictions. The policy can be checked by looking up the "Liability to Others" (Or similar wording) and looking at the "Driving other cars" sub section.

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Wed 30 Apr 2014 21:14
Busted for No Business Insurance - Hamsafar

Just a quick update.


He decided to fill in the fixed penalty notice of £300 and 6 points and say I will go to court - 2 weeks later receievd a grovelling apology saying it was a mistake and a credit card refund of towing fee within 7 days.

The insurance certificate says on it at the footer in bold "ADVICE TO THIRD PARTY - NOTHING CONTAINED IN THIS CERTIFICATE AFFECTS YOUR RIGHT AS A THIRD PARTY TO MAKE A CLAIM." but he didn't even have chance to use that.

So thanks for all the incorrect advice and old mens' tales. :)

Edited by Hamsafar on 30/04/2014 at 21:18

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Wed 30 Apr 2014 22:01
Busted for No Business Insurance - dacouch

Well done.

Incidently the notice to third parties does not mean you were covered for the purposes of the police. It simply means your Insurers are obliged to pay third party claims and then have the right of recovery from you if the incident was not covered eg the car was being used for business use when it was not covered for this.

There is case law for a taxi driver who tried using that as his defence for not having private hire use. He lost and the case set a precident

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Thu 1 May 2014 19:30
Busted for No Business Insurance - oldroverboy.

So thanks for all the incorrect advice and old mens' tales. :)

Thanks for telling us, but none of us are legal eagles, or such,

And Good you got a positive result,

But, If you want proper legal advice, Go and pay for it, an initial consultation is often free.

No need at all for "the old mens tales" bit.

Happy Motoring....

ORB.

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Thu 1 May 2014 20:11
Busted for No Business Insurance - Hamsafar

Thanks chaps.
it wasn't me or anyone close though thankfully.
I'm certainly no florist either ! :D

Edited by Hamsafar on 01/05/2014 at 20:12

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Sun 4 Dec 2016 02:22
Busted for No Business Insurance - Iffy Shah
How did you do this?
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