Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil?

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Tue 18 Feb 2014 17:32
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - braniff7

132K miles, gently driven at 60 - 65 mph for fuel conservation, on cheap diesel. Got a few fault codes recently which are apparently typical of my boring driving style.

I examined an identical but younger engine in the scrap yard, and I expect mine, like it, has a coked up intake, EGR valve etc. etc. We reap what we sow.

On advice from this HJ and my mechanic, I have already started (a) using BP Ultimate diesel (b) redlining it when I can to blow it out (c) accelerating harder and (d) generally driving faster. I feel that after a few weeks of this, it goes much better although MPG is understandably down from 51 to 47, which seems reasonable (55 mile round trip commute).

Anyway, I noticed some EGR Cleaner spray (Wynns I think) for about £8 which is sprayed in short squirts into the intake just downstream of the MAF sensor.

Elbow and EGR I can remove and clean, but the intake manifold is a step too far for me due to the need to remove the fuel pipes.

This spray - anyone tried it?

Many thanks. Any advice much appreciated.

Braniff7

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Tue 18 Feb 2014 17:34
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Collos25

Snake oil.

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Tue 18 Feb 2014 23:29
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - The-Mechanic

Snake oil.

+1

IMHO, any product that 'cleans' the intake system whilst revving the engine has the ability to loosen carbon deposits and guess where they'll end up ??

I wouldn't want to remove the inlet manifold to clean it (I know how much of a b****r they are on these engines), but I sure as heck wouldn't want to take the head off and look at bent valves, damaged pistons & bores if I used a 'wonder' spray cleaner.

The chances are, the butterfly flaps in the manifold are coated in carbon deposits. The carbon sticks pretty well to the flaps and don't usually cause a problem (apart from poor running if really cankered). If any of the deposits fall off whilst being cleaned as the engine is running, the results can be catastrophic.

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Wed 19 Feb 2014 16:30
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Railroad.

All modern cars have an EGR system to enable them to meet the latest tier four emission requirements, but the drawback is that oil mist from the breather mixed with recycled exhaust gas means a build up of carbon sludge in the air intake. The best and only real way to get rid of it is to remove the affected components and thoroughly clean them. I find the best way it to first remove the worst by using a screwdriver or a scraper, and then soak the components in a 50/50 mix of Heavy Duty Traffic Film Remover and water for about 24 hours until they're completely clean. Do not use TFR neat. It works best mixed with water. After rinsing make sure all components and completely dry before reassembly.

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Thu 20 Feb 2014 12:54
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Gibbo_Wirral

The sprays do work, but so does a liquid cleaner on a paint brush put directly on the valve.

The problem with the sprays is that you have to spray it into an easily accessible air intake pipe, which can sometimes be a fair distance from the EGR valve.

If you can get to it, clean it manually, you'll have much better results.

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 20/02/2014 at 12:55

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Thu 20 Feb 2014 13:09
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Collos25

You must work for a snake oil manufacturer or your a very gullable person..

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Fri 21 Feb 2014 09:19
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - braniff7

Thanks for some excellent and patient replies. I am suitably educated.

Braniff7, OP.

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Mon 24 Feb 2014 14:02
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Gibbo_Wirral

If your comment is addressed to me, no I'm neither.

Just someone who's seen many gummed up Peugeot EGR valves and tried and tested various ways to clean them, so I can report back my findings to our hundreds of members on peugeotforums.com

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Mon 24 Feb 2014 14:15
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Collos25

But the Peugeot forum members take very little notice .

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Tue 25 Feb 2014 13:26
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Railroad.
Why does everyone just blame the EGR valve for exhaust gas recirculation problems? If the valve moves from open to closed through its full travel then I'm struggling to understand what could be wrong with it. Yes we all know they coke up, but then so does the rest of the air intake from the EGR valve to the cylinder head too. Whoever said the problem can only be restricted to the valve itself?
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Tue 25 Feb 2014 14:25
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Gibbo_Wirral

Are you a member? If you knew anything about Peugeots you'd know that the EGR valve is in a very hard to access place.

Maybe your "armchair expert" opinion should be reserved for other topics, unless you can post something more productive rather than tired old chiches.

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 25/02/2014 at 14:26

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Tue 25 Feb 2014 16:20
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Railroad.

Are you a member? If you knew anything about Peugeots you'd know that the EGR valve is in a very hard to access place.

Maybe your "armchair expert" opinion should be reserved for other topics, unless you can post something more productive rather than tired old chiches.

As the person who posted the previous comment I'm unsure as to whether or not your reply was directed at me. If so then please let me assure you that I am perfectly aware of whereabouts of the EGR valve on a Peugeot diesel, and I know it's an extremely awkward component to access. I had one stuck open once on a Partner van causing the engine to cut out a few seconds after starting due to drawing back its own exhaust gasses. In this case and because of its sheer inaccessibility I decided to renew the component rather than clean and refit it. My point here is to make mention of the fact that exhaust recirculation problems are not necessarily due to the valve itself, and in the case of a vacuum operated valve the ECU cannot directly control or monitor its operation. The only way it can satisfy itself that the valve has opened when commanded is to monitor the resulting reduction in air flow, but if the manifold was coked up or if a vacuum pipe was split for instance then that expected reduction in air flow may not happen, and that would not be a fault of the EGR valve itself. Some knowledge of what the system does and how it works is definitely required when diagnosing EGR faults.

Edited by Railroad. on 25/02/2014 at 16:22

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Fri 28 Feb 2014 14:38
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Gibbo_Wirral

No, it was directed at Collos who seems only able to use derogatory terms about the product and people using it, yet fails to provide any actual evidence, either anecdotal or empirical. That's why the last thread about additive cleaners descended into bickering and was modded and locked.

You're absolutely right about checking other components first. In fact if you own a Peugeot with a hard to reach EGR valve (for the 90bhp 2L you have to take off the wipers, windscreen scuttle, slacken off all the engine mounts and then pull the engine forward, or work though a letter box sized gap) then you'll try whatever you can before having to tackle the valve. That's why a diagnostic check is always a good idea, as well as a visual inspection of all associated parts, especially the solenoid and the vacuum pipes for it. On more than one occasion has a garage recommened a new EGR valve for one of my customers when the problem has been the solenoid or a split in the hard vacuum pipe.

The point I made about cleaners, which seems to have been lost in the b****ing, is that they can work. I've tried a few cans in various ways - spraying into air intake, spraying directly onto valve, cleaning the valve with a spray and a brush to name but three - and visually checked the valve afterwards, and it does clean off the crud. Personally I'd go for the last option becuase I wouldn't want any of the loosened crud in my engine.

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Fri 28 Feb 2014 18:04
Saab 93 TiD 2002 2.2 - EGR Cleaner spray. Snake Oil? - Collos25

The reason most people take no notice is because they understand that the product is snake oil,if you care to google this site something you seem to have failed to have done you will see these products disected into component parts and the answer that always comes up is they are not worth the money .We run two Peugeot 307s in the family I am well aware as to where the EGR valve is situated on these cars not really difficult to get at but if it is proving difficult for you I am sure you have found some product that does the job.

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