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Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - drjaking

Difficult decision time. My 13 year old Picasso has suffered a clutch failure. Looks like about £400 to repair. I have caah set aside for a replacement, is it best now to cut my losses and scrap the pic? It's got 90k on the clock, bought at 3y old by me and done a well maintained 5k ever since. It guzzles petrol and the tax is £260. I was thinking of spending about 7k on a C4 Grand Picasso, or 10k on a Galaxy. Tending to the latter as the 3 kids will be massive in a few years and we keep cars about a decade.

Or... I could keep the money in the bank and repair the clutch. But is it just the first of a series of age related collapses?

Sub question... I bought this car at auction and saved about 20%. Is that still a worthwhile route for Joe Punter?

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - gordonbennet

Only you know just how worn the rest of the car is, does it have another two years in it, more? If so then that £400 is nothing.

The difference between the £260VED and whatever you replace with will pale into insignificance beside the depreciation alone that a £7 to 10k car will suffer over the same period.

The problem with replacing is that you are entering the realms of cars far more complicated and expensive to repair than the one you have now, you might find that your previous 10 year ownership turns out not to be the case any more when these later designs start throwing huge bills at you when they get to 7 years old and nasty things like DPF/DMF rear their ugly heads.

If Galaxy is anything like Mondeo then a possible £1500 bill awaits for a clutch/DMF change alone...the C4 Pic will possibly throw an electric parking brake problem at you in a similar time frame...either could have turbo or injection failures, gearbox problems, ECUs, anything.

The car you own already is your cheapest option, as is nearly always the case...

course if you want a new car anyway then by all means do so, but i wouldn't scrap the Pic i'd put it on the Bay with a note that the clutch is starting to slip...if it doesn't sell you can still scrap it if you so wish.

Edited by gordonbennet on 27/01/2014 at 09:38

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - drjaking
Really interesting advice, thank you. I hadn't thought of the implications of modern car maintenance. Are there any family vehicles that are not prone to this kind of problem, ie ones that are mechanically and electrically nice and simple and cheap to maintain? Or are the benefits of things like electric parking brakes worth the cost. I must say, my left arm is getting a bit tired of all that unsupported handbrake operation.
Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - gordonbennet
Are there any family vehicles that are not prone to this kind of problem, ie ones that are mechanically and electrically nice and simple and cheap to maintain? Or are the benefits of things like electric parking brakes worth the cost. I must say, my left arm is getting a bit tired of all that unsupported handbrake operation.

All cars, especially Diesels have become much more complicated in the last 10 years, anything since about 2009 will have a DPF, anything sizeable enough to replace the Pic will be heavy on fuel if its petrol, anything Diesel comes with the potential to give you a big headache..but many won't in fact do so.

If you're genuinly fed up with using the handbrake (and i suspect that quip is tongue in cheek -;) then a proper TC auto or something like the simple hill hold as fitted to Subarus would alleviate that problem.

Your problem in a way is that you want to run your cars for a long time, i do the same but have gone about it differently by converting standard petrol automatic to LPG (and put up with the VED), works for me but not the solution for everyone.

If you want a vehicle suggestion, you could have a C4 Pic without the electric parking brake by buying a new shape Diesel Berlingo (do not get the auto its horrible as are nearly all automated manuals and has the potential for large expense)...i like these a lot, plenty of room for your growing family, likely to be reliable IMO as its basically a Berlie van with seats and windows, it will have a DPF as all modern Diesels do but Citroens solution with the EOLYS fluid injection does seem to work better than many others but you will have to factor in some cost to maintain that system @ approx 5 to 7 years with normal mileage, probably a one off cost though if you keep it ten years....only three year warranty from new though.

You might find a Kia Ceed estate works for you, that 7 year warranty if you maintain it correctly takes some beating, don't hear of DPF problems with Kia/Hyundia nor indeed Toyota come to that.

Most normal naturally aspirated petrol cars don't suffer such maladies anyway, and probably best for lower annual mileages, but you have higher fuel consumption and higher VED penalties....you have weeks of thinking and research ahead of you, best of luck..;)

The two cars you were interested in in your OP will both be out of or just about to run out of makers warranty, lot of money for a car with no makers warranty.

I dislike electric parking brakes and i won't be buying a car so fitted, they do the job but are another complication and an answer to a problem that didn't exist...fine for company car drivers and for owners who change when warranty exprires, but another expensive thing to fix out of warranty for those who run cars longer, even Toyota's dabble in EPB's have the odd (expensive) problem.

Edited by gordonbennet on 27/01/2014 at 11:14

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - drjaking

Sorry, the handbrake quip was indeed sarky. I have no use for some of this stuff, so your suggestion of a Berlingo is intriguing. We do want 7 seats, it's not just our own kids that we end up carrying, but also the ability to put one at the back might make journeys a bit calmer! And I see the Berlingo does have a 7-seat option, though they are rare.

About half our driving is short journeys in town so I am a bit worried about diesels, I gather they are happier on long journeys. If running costs remain the same my spreadsheets tell me for a C4 Grand Pic a 1.6 diesel would save me £420/y over a 1.6 petrol, not a trivial amount (and that's similar to the benefit against my current running costs, a bit of a compensation for depreciation if we do replace). For an S-Max/Galaxy it's a £310 saving to have the diesel. These days it seems like petrols are so rare that there isn't much of a premium in buying a diesel, perhaps a year's worth of the savings or so. But all those savings would be wiped out by one of these £1500 catastrophes of course, it's a bit of a gamble.

I've posted here before abotu buying a 3 year old Addison Lee vehicle. Given that they have 80k+ on the clock and have been maintained with Ford parts every 10k, would they be more or less at risk of expensive failures in your opinion?

Anyway... i don't have the luxury of weeks of research, we need the car so probably I'm just oging to fix it. It's in very good condition and the rational side of me says get another year or two out of it... though it does need new brakes and a couple of tyres.

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - mss1tw
Are there any family vehicles that are not prone to this kind of problem, ie ones that are mechanically and electrically nice and simple and cheap to maintain?

Scrapyards? The public got what the public wanted, lots of toys and trinkets but without the hassle of actually paying more.

Of course E.U. legislation hasn't helped either, but everything these days is built to a price (I'm an electrician and modern new-builds and some electrical gear is just obviously designed down to the penny)

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - Happy Blue!

Fair comments by GB, but my experience of the mechanically identical S-Max to the Galaxy is effectively 100% reliability despite every possible extra having been built into the car including the Electric Handbrake.

For 5,000 miles a year a petrol car seems more appropriate though and rather than a seven seater, look for a car that seats five people in comfort - say the Ford C-Max?

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - drjaking

I *like* the S-Max and the Galaxy. That's partly my problem right now, I have the urge...

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - Bromptonaut

I'd second GB in saying the current model Berlingo is worth a look. We got a 115bhp XTR model in September and now on 6.5k miles. Loads of space, pretty spritely perormance and feels like a proper car, not a van with windows. Rear seats are foldable and removable and with them out of the way loadspace will take bikes upright and stowed fore/aft.

As you'd hope it's not given a spot of trouble and is commendably free of creaks or rattles.

It is a big vehicle though and needs care in confined spaces. Slightly over 1.8m and only just slips into some car parks or the double deck vehicle shuttles on the Chunnel.

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - gordonbennet

Loads of space, pretty spritely perormance and feels like a proper car, not a van with windows.

It is a big vehicle though and needs care in confined spaces.

Bromp, i wasn't in any way being derogatory to the Berlie Multispace, if anything the fact its based on the van makes it all the more better, means the running gear has been designed for white van man to do his level best to break, thats a huge bonus to the vehicle IMHO.

One thing i always noted when delivering was how much more torquey the vans and van based MPV's were than the cars with the same engine, obviously mapped and geared sesnibly without that often too high first and reverse gears...which, coupled with the different mapping, IMO leads to premature clutch and DMF wear as so much slipping has to be done so often in order to get the things rolling every single time.

Proper sensible mirrors on these too, none of those silly little triangular make up mirrors as fitted to some car doors now.

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - Bromptonaut

GB

I didn't think for a minute you were 'dissing' the 'lingo. We've now got two. I drive the 05 1.9D and Mrs B the new 63reg (albeit disguised with her LOV personal plate). Welove them both.

PS: You're sadly missed in the other place. Zero can be a pain but he's like a dog who barks a lot and occasionally nips your behind. Carried away; no real harm meant.

Do come back.

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - drjaking

Well, I came to the conclusion that it's broken value is essentially £0 while fixed it would sell for about £350 or so, which is the price of getting it fixed. So I put it into a local garage and will take my time researching and buying the next car. Thanks for all your comments, I'm quite up for a 115bhp Berlingo diesel, but the other half thinks it looks like Postman Pat's van...as though that's a bad thing! Maybe I shouldn't have shown her a red one. The Seven seat requirement is perhaps a red herring, it's only a few times a year it would matter, but we do have a dog, and a camping habit, so it will need to be big, whatever it is. Maybe an estate, the Passats and Mondeos look nice. Lot's to think about.

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - dieselnut

" Maybe an estate, the Passats and Mondeos look nice "

If you do go for the Passat make sure it doesn't have the 2l PD engine, otherwise it could be a case of out of the frying pan & into the fire.

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - Cyd

There's always roof boxes and trailers for those times you need extra luggage space!! Not necessary to lug about lots of metal work in the form of a big estate just so you can fill it once a year!

Citroen Xsara Picasso - repair or retire a 12 year old - skidpan

We had a C-Max, pretty much the same size as the original Picasso, did what we needed a car to do, held all the luggage twice a year (just) and was pretty comfortable. Would ahve bought a Picasso when we bought it but the wifey found that the gear lever was too much of a stretch, preferred the C-Max.

Replaced it with a Kia Ceed SW. Its got more luggage space, better passenger space and does not take up much more space on the road and in car parks. Prior to the C-Max we had a 52 plate Mondeo, in car parks it was a real pain and the newer ones are even bigger, spaces are simply not made for them.

With regards to the Ceed get a CRDi prior to September 2010 and it will not have a DPF. None had DMF's and if you get one with a full service history (preferably Kia) and less than 100000 miles on the clock it will still have the manufacturers warranty.

There are some real bargains out there, well worth a look.