|
the second poster doesnt make a jot of sense when compared to the awesome and excellent reply of the first chap, you say how could he know im not in if he didnt come, well what stops him from saying he came and nobody was in exactly? All i would have is my word i was, hardly a defence but in fairness not really relevant and seems you cannot help with a great answer like the first chap and therefore picking faults with what i wrote, even if i did have the answer their is little relevance to such a menial matter. Is the car taxed and insured? again what relevance does that have? Why would a fixed penalty be issued its in my name now.
Edited by loulou91 on 21/01/2014 at 12:23
|
the second poster doesnt make a jot of sense when compared to the awesome and excellent reply of the first chap, you say how could he know im not in if he didnt come, well what stops him from saying he came and nobody was in exactly? All i would have is my word i was, hardly a defence but in fairness not really relevant and seems you cannot help with a great answer like the first chap and therefore picking faults with what i wrote, even if i did have the answer their is little relevance to such a menial matter. Is the car taxed and insured? again what relevance does that have? Why would a fixed penalty be issued? We now have the V5 in our name.
Sorry you see it like that but only trying to be helpful.
The buyer contacted you on the morning of handover because you were out. If I had bought a car and the seller could not be bothered to wait in at the agreed handover time I would be pretty annoyed myself. But I would not have been as daft as that buyer, I would not have paid by bank transfer thus would always have had the option of backing out should the car not be as it was when the sale was agreed, it does happen.
As to the relevance of insurance and a fixed penalty under the continuous insurance legislation introduced 2011 a car must be insurred unless SORN has been declared. Failure to do that will result in a fixed penalty of £100 or if it goes to court £1000 and the vehicle could well be siezed and crushed.
If you expect to get help on here perhaps you should take the advice given in the spirit intended and not just become one of the posters who disappears when the advice given is not exactly what you want telling you all will be well.
|
|
|
you say how could he know im not in if he didnt come, well what stops him from saying he came and nobody was in exactly?
You asked did the buyer come. As he knew you were out then he obviously did come to the house.
Other than you not being in at the time the buyer is in the wrong here. I too would have been annoyed if someone was not in after agreeing to collect a car (or anything else)
|
|
Was it ever mentioned in the terms and conditions of the sale - if there were any- that you had to be at a certain place/point at collection. I doubt this, so term of breach of contract should not apply.
I think if you have a word with CAB you will find he has no leg to stand on at which point after confirming with your Bank the cash is still there and safe a polite letter back stating it his property and if not removed by ?????? storage fees will apply - if not paid recoverable through County Court.
or
play the saint and give him his money back less an amount for your troubles.
dvd
|
|
alan, yet another person who cannot grasp simple facts, all im saying is he could, if he wished to, make it up and say we were in when we werent, thats what im getting at, im pretty sure he did actually come, and clearly you and a.n.other have such alot of time on their hands that you are prepared to wait in forever more for people. Put simply, if you have time from whe you wake until midday to sit and do nothing until someone may or maynot turn up then you have one hell of an easy/boring life. Being no further than 3/4 mile away in town is hardly letting anyone down now is it? Its how the world works.
Thanks for the mention dvd reference cab but i dont think it is necessary, he has quoted non stop we owe for his loss of time, his missed dental appt, and that we are in breach of contract because i said the car had never been smoked in or had pets in it and he states unless i speciifally know ALL of the previous keepers how could i know for sure.....get the drift? The guys a joke....and im afraid its going to cost him £1500 by the looks of it. Yes the car is in storage for him and he will be liable for those fees not me presumably.
Ps he lives 35 miles away !!! Plenty of times he could have come and collected hence me saying it might be the fact he changed his mind.
|
|
I'm glad you can make out I must have an easy/dull life just because I have the good manners to be in when I said I would be.
And just by being in the house does that mean I would be doing nothing?
And yes, in my opinion not being in when you said you would be is letting someone down. And just because you are 3/4 of a mile away makes no difference if they do not know that.
|
|
i wonder how you treated this guy when he phoned you because you were out.im sure you wernt very apologetic..this for him was the day he was to collect his car that he had paid for and you could not even be bothered to wait in for him.
|
|
Choose which side of the coin you like. I could say he couldnt be bothered to phone me to say he was coming.
Have to say i really am astounded at how much time 4 posters on here must have, maybe you dont work or have children but in the real world time is of a premium and for sure nobody who works or has kids has the time to wait in "all morning" when a simple "im on my way" call/text would leave one to go about their daily business.
Anyway the most worrting thing is that (as usual) most people are unable to post any sense/law/help but thankyou to those who took the time out who are vastly knowledgeable.
|
|
Yet another person who cannot accept the good advice given or accept the fact being out at a pre arranged time is simply not an acceptable way of treating a buyer. He paid up front by bank transfer and deserved the simple courtesy of the seller being in at the pre arranged time.
After his original e-mail I might have had a bit of sympathy for his predicament, after the way he has replied to the posts submitted I now have no sympathy and suspect this is why the buyer wants out.
|
|
|
.... the most worrting thing is that (as usual) most people are unable to post any sense/law/help but thankyou to those who took the time out who are vastly knowledgeable.
I'm with Skidpan (for a change :-) ). Loulou is in the happy position of being in possession of both car and money. It's up to her(?) to agree a time with the buyer to collect, so I suppose the fault is down to both of them if this didn't happen. It's no good blaming the buyer for everything, just because you are 'busy' all day. Bad P-R.
|
|
I'm with Loulou on this.
It says in the original post a day was agreed but not a time. It doesn't take much to phone somebody or text proposing a time, giving a 1 or 2 hours notice. I believe it is unreasonable to have to wait in all day because somebody cannot commit to specifying a time and sticking to it.
In the past when I've advertised anything for sale in the paper or on gumtree, I've had my bellyfull of clowns who phone and say they will be there at a time and then don't turn up.
I was brought up the old fashioned way that being late is bad manners. In fact, there are no excuses for being late: The traffic was heavier than expected - you should have set off earlier. The train was delayed - you should have caught an earlier one.
|
|
Traffic can be checked before setting off and en route. The train companies I use struggle to make 80% of their performance targets. Lorries hit bridges, overhead wires come down, sad people jump in front of trains = a crime secene and line closures. Mobile phone updates are the way to go, if dealing with delays IMO. They are, broadly, unpredictable.
|
I've had my bellyfull of clowns who phone and say they will be there at a time and then don't turn up.
I was brought up the old fashioned way that being late is bad manners. In fact, there are no excuses for being late: The traffic was heavier than expected - you should have set off earlier. The train was delayed - you should have caught an earlier one.
I'm sure we all know about the 'clowns' you mention. But all the OP has told us is that (s)he got fed up waiting and went shopping, at which moment the buyer texted. I see no mention of traffic problems. Seems a careless way to sell a car.
But as for delayed trains - no, there is a published timetable, which travellers can hope will be somewhere near accurate. In this case it seems time was not discussed.
|
I'm sure we all know about the 'clowns' you mention.
I have met plenty of "clowns" when selling cars but a chap who agrees to buy the car then pays up front by bank transfer does not deserve to be considered to be a clown. That is unless buying from the OP puts him in that category.
|
|
Choose which side of the coin you like. I could say he couldnt be bothered to phone me to say he was coming.
Have to say i really am astounded at how much time 4 posters on here must have, maybe you dont work or have children but in the real world time is of a premium and for sure nobody who works or has kids has the time to wait in "all morning" when a simple "im on my way" call/text would leave one to go about their daily business.
Anyway the most worrting thing is that (as usual) most people are unable to post any sense/law/help but thankyou to those who took the time out who are vastly knowledgeable.
Or you could have always aked him what time he was planning on arriving when he said he would be there in the morning and then ensured that you would be in at that time.
Maybe I would do that as you assume I have no kids and don't work? But no, I do work full time and would still arange a time with someone and make sure I was in. I belive that it's just good manners.
Fair enough you don't agree with my thoughts but that does not mean that I am lazy, don't work or have too much time on my hands.
I do feel though that no doubt the attitude you convey on here would also have rubbed the buyer up the wrong way as well which will not have helped you solve the problem in the first place.
|
|
It will be interesting to see if this goes to court. Or if we hear an outcome.
|
Or if we hear an outcome.
Doubt it - sounds like they will be too busy in town or something! LOL :-)
|
|
Lets just recap:
>>"The morning of the day he is due to collect arrives and im up town shopping, a text message comes through stating he is not happy as i am not there as he stated he would be there in the morning, i text back apologising and say too busy to wait to wait in all morning but shall be 10 minutes"
Now to me it reads that it was all arranged for the buyer to collect on that day, in the morning, yet the OP still went into the town to do their shopping. That seems like bad manners to me and downright rude. The guy had paid for the car, arranged to come on that morning but the OP was just too busy to honour their small obligation to be at home for just one morning.
I'd be miffed too, not quite enough to reject the car entirely, but I would not be happy. I think the buyers actions are a little over the top but I can't get past the fact that the OP has pretty much brought this on themselves.
Edited by Simon on 22/01/2014 at 20:23
|
Lets just recap:
>>"The morning of the day he is due to collect arrives and im up town shopping, a text message comes through stating he is not happy as i am not there as he stated he would be there in the morning, i text back apologising and say too busy to wait to wait in all morning but shall be 10 minutes"
Now to me it reads that it was all arranged for the buyer to collect on that day, in the morning, yet the OP still went into the town to do their shopping. That seems like bad manners to me and downright rude. The guy had paid for the car, arranged to come on that morning but the OP was just too busy to honour their small obligation to be at home for just one morning.
One wonders what the OP had run out of that going shopping for it couldn't wait till the afternoon?
|
|
I'd have had the 'ump too as the buyer in this little, totally unecessary, saga.
|
|
I still cannot believe how much time some people must have. Or is it the fact that people are demanding that THEY are picking a car up so you WILL wait in for me? Those days are gone. Been up since 5 that day, took kids to school at 8.30 for 8.50 start and went into town which incidentally is 1/2 mile away. If you live in the real world and have children and or have to work then without a fixed time slot or i am leaving now text will be an hour you realistically cannot be expected to stay in all morning for someone who may or may not come and has no intention of letting you know he is actually coming. For the record he is a 70 year old retired guy which i guess alot of you on here must be or else i do think you are making it up becuase nobody in their right mind would stay in and wait for someone when they MUST do other things which is why all of you bar a couple are talking as though you are demanding that i MUST stay for YOU. Its not really the point is it and has no bearing on the outcome of a court case, no judge would say you didnt stop in, find in his favour, case closed. Come on people dig deeper and lets have some proper help?
|
|
As your life is soooo busy, make proper appointments - and keep to them. If you didn't actually set a time for collection, you must take the blame for that.
Believe it or not, you're not the first parent with children, a home to run and a job to do.
|
|
I think the OP should have a long look at her life style and then come into the real world .
|
|
Quite agree, when I was between wives for a couple of years I had two kids at primary school, a full time job, parents living 5 miles away who didn't drive, but I managed to organise such things as access for meter readers, boiler servicing etc.when necessary.
Rants against retired people who have been there and done that do not attract sympathy from me.
|
Hi Lou Lou,
Leaving aside all the hot air that your post has generated ,IMO I think that your buyer has no grounds for rejecting the car based on your failure to be available at a time to suit him.
In paying for the car he completed an agreement to purchase the car ,the car is now his property ,especially as you say you have sent off the v5 to register it to his daughter .
In addition is the car still insured ? I would write to him telling him that if he doesn't collect the car in 7 days you will deliver it to his home address and put the keys through his letter box ,say in your letter that he has no reasonable grounds for rejecting the car .
When you get to the SCC a judge will decide a case on what's reasonable nothing else .
You didn't agree a definite time say 10am and then not be there ,you offered to deliver the car to his home ,he rejected that offer ,that's unreasonable .Thats why he will lose his case in the SCC .
When you get to the SCC ,don't tell the judge about your busy life style ,he won't want to know that .
In short your buyer comes across as pedantic and foolish ,in trying to justify your position you have made yourself look equally as foolish to the forum ,don't make the same mistake when you get to the SCC .
A case in the SCC is decided in part simply by a judges opinion ,if you go to court and display the same opinions you've done here you could lose your case .
Edited by tony g on 30/01/2014 at 10:53
|
|
I think Tony has pretty much got it right.
There has been much hot air in the sense that some posters have got things out of proportion.
Loulou should have fixed a clear appointment time and stayed in for that - it is a matter of common courtesy. However, it is a tiny issue in the bigger picture of a transaction having taken place, involving hundreds or maybe thousands of pounds, and the attempt by the buyer to undo it all over an issue of courtesy. (If that is the real reason.)
If there are legal complications regarding the insurance and/or VED status of the vehicle it could potentially get pretty awkward.
What is needed is a sense of where the priorities in this case lie. Someone has made a transaction and they are now unilaterally trying to cancel it.
Tony's advice about how to proceed if this comes to court is also good. A court won't be interested in trivia about whether someone should or should not have waited in, or why someone is extremely busy.
|
There has been much hot air in the sense that some posters have got things out of proportion.
I disagree there - people have pointed out that is one reason what has annoyed the buyer but have always agreed that the buyer is still in the wrong.
The only issue people have has is that the op somehow thinks just because someone would have stayed in for the buyer to collect then that must mean they either don't work/have kids or are retired and don't live in the real world. The hot air and ranting came from the original op not the posters.
|
|
"'There has been much hot air in the sense that some posters have got things out of proportion.'
I disagree there - people have pointed out that is one reason what has annoyed the buyer but have always agreed that the buyer is still in the wrong."
I'm probably going to be seen as nit-picking here, Alan, but this is not accurate.
Several posts include comments critical of the OP's treatment of the buyer without any mention of the buyer being in the wrong. That's what I meant about things getting out of proportion.
And even if the OP seems to be full of self-justification, that is also irrelevant to the main issue. I can't see any objection to people commenting on the OP's attitude, but often it comes across as being part of the problem with the original transaction.
|
|
Quite right, Tony G, on all counts. It's no use LouLou railing against us all on here - she lives in a 'real world', and so do we. One difference is that we may also have lived in hers, some time ago.
|
|
|
|
|
|
