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The Fiat 500 is a good car.
Seriously? A 5-6 year old car sheds it's rear suspension because of a corroded rear axle and that's a "good car" ?
Having had the doubtful pleasure of owning a couple of Fiats (not the current fashion- accessory 500) in the past, and having to put up with the antics of their dealer network and parts supply network, Fiat are on my list of never-again makes, along with Citroen, Vauxhall and anything infected with the GM virus, BMW and any Ford.
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I agree,
its hard to ind a good Fiat dealer and Fiat UK dont help matters.
BUT
my experience of Fiat products (and its quite a lot) is they have improved in terms of reliability and quality.
Not perfect, no where near the same level as Honda and Toyota, but they are going the right way compared to the rubbish they use to churn out.
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A five year old car breaks rear spring even out of warranty Fiat contribute 50% ,the initial damage was probably caused by state of the UK roads but the OP didn`t bother to look.
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I think many would be surprised at the state of the suspension, axles, subframes, (often poorly painted if at all) of many cars after a couple of salty winters if they could ever be bothered to look properly under their cars, remove the road wheels even...shock horror.
I wonder how often this Fiat was hosed down properly underneath to clear the ingrained salt build up, especially in the period immediately after the salt has gone from the roads.
Because car bodies don't rust quite so obviously as they once did people think rust is a think of the past, wrong.
Some linked pics of this damage would be interesting, presumably the spring perches have rotted away and collapsed just like some MB's did, thats the sort of water trap that needs cleaning out regularly.
Plus we don't know the history of this car, did it stand in water (salt?) or on long grass for several weeks/months at some point even before it was sold, does the owner think they are in a Hilux when negotiating speed humps pot holed roads etc...not enough info to go on yet.
Edited by gordonbennet on 18/01/2014 at 09:23
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Corrosion to that extent should surely be covered by the rust warranty. I would be contacting What Car or Auto Express with the details.
Broken springs are wear and tear, happens all the time.
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I think many would be surprised at the state of the suspension, axles, subframes, (often poorly painted if at all) of many cars after a couple of salty winters if they could ever be bothered to look properly under their cars, remove the road wheels even...shock horror.
Very true, another benefit of doing even basic servicing yourself is it gets you underneath at least part of the car so you see the hidden bits
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No help to the OP but since 2010,Fiat have fitted the reputedly far superior Ford KA suspension to all models of the 500-previously only used on "Abarth" models! This makes you wonder if it was just for superior ride and handling as was claimed at the time.
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I don't read this as being a broken spring, but more of a cup/axle mounting problem.
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Same here
Broken springs are a common problem, but even at dealer prices a replacment spring wouldn't come to £550, surely??
I recently changed both front springs on a Stilo for a friend (LHS was broken). Total incl my labour came to about £150, would have been about £240 if we'd bought the springs from OEM.
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From the OP... ''Reason: severe corrosion of cups and back axle''.
Don't think anyone thought it a simple spring breakage.
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I think many would be surprised at the state of the suspension, axles, subframes, (often poorly painted if at all) of many cars after a couple of salty winters if they could ever be bothered to look properly under their cars, remove the road wheels even...shock horror.
Actually, I am amazed how little corrosion there is these days. Many years ago I vowed never to buy another Ford, yet I find almost unbelievable how little preventive work I have to do on our now 13yr old Focus.
A bit of advice - I keep old engine oil and occasionally paint it liberally on the underneath bits, including the springs and their cups. Also worth greasing brake pipes as well - they will then last indefinitely. A garage so-called 'service' does not include this. Far more useful than needlessly changing the oil or cambelt...........
Edited by Avant on 18/01/2014 at 21:17
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I understand old engine oil contains the by-products of combustion and can do more harm than good painted onto metal - probably OK for wooden sheds.
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If this car had been serviced properly and MOT properly this so called rust would have been noticed long before it became a danger,It seems obviousthis car has not seen the inside of a garage for some time or if it has I would be asking for my money back.
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I understand old engine oil contains the by-products of combustion and can do more harm than good painted onto metal -
How? I would be grateful for the chemical explanation of your understanding, b t.
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I understand old engine oil contains the by-products of combustion and can do more harm than good painted onto metal -
How? I would be grateful for the chemical explanation of your understanding, b t.
There's always some blow-by in every engine, some of which finds it's way to the sump.
I too have been told that used engine oil contains various acidic components not there when new.
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I understand old engine oil contains the by-products of combustion and can do more harm than good painted onto metal -
How? I would be grateful for the chemical explanation of your understanding, b t.
There's always some blow-by in every engine, some of which finds it's way to the sump.
I too have been told that used engine oil contains various acidic components not there when new.
The by-products of combustion are easilly spotted, the oil goes dark or even black as you use the car.
Used to be common in the 70's to paint your car underside with old oil, horrid messy job that left a trail wherever the car went. Waxoyl soon put a stop to that and now since all cars come witha 10 or 12 year warranty why bother, I havn't since a Mk 2 Escort and never had a rusty car. You rarely see a badly corroded car today unless its 15 years old or has been parked in the sea. back in the 70's I had 3 year old cars with more rust on than as a 10 year old car today.
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We used to Waxoyl our mk 1 Escorts, all built at Halewood AFAIK but our mk 2 was a Ghia built in Germany and survived very well without any extra rust-proofing. I certainly haven't rust-profed any of my cars since - even the Cavaliers had no issue with wheel arches, probably due to regular removal of the mud build-up.
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< There's always some blow-by in every engine, some of which finds its way to the sump.
I too have been told that used engine oil contains various acidic components not there when new. >
Even without blow-by, combustion products from the cylinder get scraped down the walls with the oil.
If a petrol engine runs with a lambda of 1.0, combustion should be balanced and complete: hydrocarbon + oxygen --> carbon dioxide + water. Doesn't often happen as ideally as that; there are additives in the fuel which may introduce other trace elements, and atmospheric nitrogen can get involved, producing nitrogen oxides. Fully oxidised nitrogen leads to nitric acid, though not usually before the cat-converter.
So after several thousand miles it's not surprising if sump oil is a bit acid.
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< There's always some blow-by in every engine, some of which finds its way to the sump.
I too have been told that used engine oil contains various acidic components not there when new. >
Even without blow-by, combustion products from the cylinder get scraped down the walls with the oil.
If a petrol engine runs with a lambda of 1.0, combustion should be balanced and complete: hydrocarbon + oxygen --> carbon dioxide + water. Doesn't often happen as ideally as that; there are additives in the fuel which may introduce other trace elements, and atmospheric nitrogen can get involved, producing nitrogen oxides. Fully oxidised nitrogen leads to nitric acid, though not usually before the cat-converter.
So after several thousand miles it's not surprising if sump oil is a bit acid.
Good answer, but one trip down a rainy motorway would dilute any trace acidity to neutral! A coating of old engine oil applied on a dry day in early summer is much more protective than a coating of rust on the subframes and spring housings.
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Good answer, but one trip down a rainy motorway would dilute any trace acidity to neutral! A coating of old engine oil applied on a dry day in early summer is much more protective than a coating of rust on the subframes and spring housings.
Never realised you could dilute old engine oil with water.
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You can't. The dilution is to the emulsified acidic component [if any].
In the modern precisely machined improved metals of today's unstressed engines which are rarely at full throttle it is not really a consideration. The 2yr old oil in my carefully maintained Audi is still only slightly darkened from honey colour after 11,000m. In the old days it would be black after 1000m. [and of course diesels with their huge compression ratios make it black, and possibly quite acidic, very soon].
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You can't. The dilution is to the emulsified acidic component [if any].
How can you dilute an emulsified component? By definition that component is emulsified with the main carrier, oil in this case, into a homogenous substance.
So back to the question - how do you dilute engine oil with water ?
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< A coating of old engine oil applied on a dry day in early summer is much more protective than a coating of rust on the subframes and spring housings. >
I remember making up a brew of old engine oil and candle-wax and painting it inside the lower doors of a Maxi, about 1977 ....
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Fiat are on my list of never-again makes, along with Citroen, Vauxhall and anything infected with the GM virus, BMW and any Ford.
Hmm, that cramps your style somewhat. I presume you also exclude Peugeot as a Citroen clone?
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Any Grande Punto owners out there?
Have you looked at the bulkhead around the brake servo lately?
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sinister/GP_Leak.pdf
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Fiat are on my list of never-again makes, along with Citroen, Vauxhall and anything infected with the GM virus, BMW and any Ford.
Hmm, that cramps your style somewhat. I presume you also exclude Peugeot as a Citroen clone?
Certainly do - and I live in France, so the roads are infested with the b***** things along with all the old and new Renault's.
Rice Burners Rock !
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