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Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - Debbie25

Hi John

In September I purchased on a PCP through the Lexus Finance Group a 12 month old CT200h car. The driving experience was very different however I required an automatic car that had a good mpg so a hybrid with many extras appeared to be a good solution. I felt that the compromise for its lack of speed was the price I paid for a robust car to tackle the many miles of motorway driving that I endure. So imagine my suprise just before Christmas when I went to a morning meeting at a local college and upon entering the car park and choosing a large space of 3 bays my slow lexus whilst coasting into the middle space accelerated with such force still on a turn that it clipped the vehicle to the left in front, hit the vehicle to the right and a third with such force that it shunted that into the vehicle next to it. The only good point to this accident is that all other vehicles were empty and no one was injured, however I will not drive or trust this car again or want it to go back on the road for anyone else to suffer this problem as next time it may not be only metal that is injured. I would like to know if anyone else has had a similar issue, I have had an automatic car before for over 3 years so I do know how to drive one. Secondly the group are carrying out tests therefore since the 20th December I have not had a vehicle and they are now saying they need a further 10 working days, which I feel is a form of intimidation as a car is essential to my work, do I have any rights here and I am still expected to support the financial payment? Any assistance and advice would be greatly appreciated, also I do have a copy of the CCTV footage of the accident. Kind regards Debbie

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - Avant

Moved to Legal, where this belongs. Hopefully you will get some replies from other forum members if they can wade through this huge long paragraph.

If you were hoping to write directly to Honest John, you should E-mail letters@honestjohn.co.uk

If you do, try to make his life easier by putting some paragraphs in.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - focussed

When carrying out any slow-speed manoevering in any car with an automatic transmission the correct way to control the speed of the vehicle is to use two-pedal control. That is to have the left foot kissing the brake pedal and the right foot tickling the throttle if necessary.

I am assuming here that the Lexus has a conventional set-up of throttle/brake pedals.

By your description of what happened "coasting" etc it would seem that you didn't use this procedure.

All automatics have different characteristics as to how much creep they produce with the right foot off the throttle, some want to charge off, some don't, but using two pedal control keeps the car under control whatever happens.

As an instructor I have taught scores of people to safely drive all sorts of automatic cars using this procedure, and never had a test fail on an auto.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - Collos25

Most people including myself have never had a problem using one foot as you should, using two feet in an automatic is asking for trouble and you as an instructor should have been taught that.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - RT

I have to agree, I've never had any issue in just using one foot to control an automatic.

Foot on footbrake, engage drive, gradually release footbrake until desired speed is reached - if insufficient creep occurs move foot to accelerator and press gently to obtain required speed - simples!

Edited by RT on 10/01/2014 at 10:12

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - skidpan

Most people including myself have never had a problem using one foot as you should, using two feet in an automatic is asking for trouble and you as an instructor should have been taught that.

Totally agree. Never had an issue in an auto using just my right foot.

Since many drivers who use an auto are disabled how would they cope if they had only one leg and need to use two.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - Cris_on_the_gas

The biggest cause of the above incident is in fact the driver pressing the accelerator pedal instead of the brake. Apprecitate the OP is sure this did not happen. However in many cases of this type the human brain is unable to compute that it is doing the wrong thing and presses the pedal harder.

Using both feet is a safer way of controlling an automatic at slow speed. As soon as the car surges the left foot immediately brakes the car. The brake will always be more powerful than the engine so will stop the car.

I would not recommend doing this to any decent car. Try on a traffic free private road, drive at 30mph plus then press hard on both accelerator and brake. Guarantee the car will stop, but won't sound or smell very nice.

I guess in this situation the onus is on the OP to prove beyond the balance of probability there is a fault in the car. I think there have been many cases in many cars, including a lot of Toyotas & Lexus but not aware of any liability being proven against the manufacturer. Indeed many case have been proven to driver error or floor mats or other object trapping the accelerator.

What might be a consideration with drive by wire accelerators is the possiblity of electrical interference from external sources like power lines or transmitters etc. Seems like we are living more and more in a wireless world.

Edited by Cris_on_the_gas on 10/01/2014 at 12:13

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - alan1302

Since many drivers who use an auto are disabled how would they cope if they had only one leg and need to use two.

By driving as you do as they don't need to use two - and no one said you had to use two. Just that is what he recommended,

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - focussed

Funny how everybody who hasn't been an instructor purports to know more than someone who has isn't it?

The method I described is the approved safe method-if you all want use the myway method feel free.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - RT

Funny how everybody who hasn't been an instructor purports to know more than someone who has isn't it?

The method I described is the approved safe method-if you all want use the myway method feel free.

Perhaps we could have the benefit of all your expertise in explaining why that method is better/safer than the one-foot method I described, ie:-

Foot on footbrake, engage drive, gradually release footbrake until desired speed is reached - if insufficient creep occurs move foot to accelerator and press gently to obtain required speed.

And/or alternatively explain whether the two-foot method should be employed for the whole journey, at every speed - or at what speed can the control revert to the conventional one foot moved between pedals as necessary.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - focussed

Certainly RT - the key phrase in my original post is:-

"When carrying out any slow-speed manoevering"

Clear enough for you?

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - RT

Certainly RT - the key phrase in my original post is:-

"When carrying out any slow-speed manoevering"

Clear enough for you?

That answers the second part but not the first - how is the two-method better/safer than the one foot method during slow-speed manoeuvring ?

I'm genuinely keen to know as I regard safety as vitally important.

Edited by RT on 11/01/2014 at 19:37

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - Avant

Focussed - I can absolutely see the reasons for left-foot braking (LFB) - HJ is also a strong advocate. But what's your professional view about LFB when you regularly also drive a manual?

I've never used LFB for just that reason - SWMBO has always had manuals. I've always imagined that in an emergency you woukd need to act on instinct, and I wouldn't want to have any doubt at that point.

(Edit - your above post has to some extent answered the question. Do you advocate LFB on the move, at least for those who drive only automatics?)

Edited by Avant on 11/01/2014 at 19:35

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - galileo

Over the last 50-odd years I've had manual cars, CVT Daf's and automatics, here and in the USA, I never had a problem adjusting from one type to the other and I always use left foot braking on the non-manual cars.

I'd certainly support focussed in recommending LFB for low speed manoeuvring in confined spaces; I've seen many reports of elderly drivers who've changed to auto's ending up in rivers/canals/shop windows through using the one-foot system.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - focussed

Left foot braking on an auto at slow speed usually when parking is safer because despite what the electronic gubbins under the bonnet decides to do you can retain control of the car. There is no danger of going for the brake and hitting the gas pedal instead with your right foot. Right foot only with left foot resting away from the pedals is fine when the car is moving. Another good example of LFB and covering the brake when moving is when setting off uphill, if the engine fails you've got it under control.

And don't forget, when you use the brakes +brake lights, any driver behind knows you are slowing down or stopping so slightly less risk of being rear - ended.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - RT

Left foot braking on an auto at slow speed usually when parking is safer because despite what the electronic gubbins under the bonnet decides to do you can retain control of the car. There is no danger of going for the brake and hitting the gas pedal instead with your right foot. Right foot only with left foot resting away from the pedals is fine when the car is moving. Another good example of LFB and covering the brake when moving is when setting off uphill, if the engine fails you've got it under control.

And don't forget, when you use the brakes +brake lights, any driver behind knows you are slowing down or stopping so slightly less risk of being rear - ended.

Thanks for the explanation - changing the habit of a lifetime is another matter though.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - gordonbennet

Another one foot only driver here, when driving an auto my left foot is temporarily glued to the footrest, and that will be the case till i drop.

Never been an instructor, but i have had unusual experience of close manoeuvering cars on extreme angles over twenty years driving car transporters, till recently, now thankfully out of the game.

Can't recall having to cover the brakes with my left foot with either proper automatics or more recently especially hybrids, indeed the Toyota/Lexus hybrid take up of drive is controllable down to the nth degree, pleasurable, but all TC autos i have found easily controlled just by throttle adjustment, just takes a little finesse and feel for whats happening, all are infinitely contollable they are not on/off switches.

Automated manuals, dual clutch, older CVT's and other similar works of satan would have been better with LFB assistance now and again due to the haphazard way drive engages, but in practice touching the brakes cuts the power instantly so of no use whatsoever, close manouevers were always 'dodgy' with those designs (which owners only discover once they've bought into the things), if the throttle didn't cut out automatically at low speeds when the brakes are applied then LFB would help make them passable.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/01/2014 at 09:26

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - skidpan

The single most dangerous aspect of left foot braking even when manouvering is what you do should say a child ran behind your car. Its fine if you lift of the throttle and stamp on the brake but many serious incidents have been caused when the driver simply panics and stamps on both pedals (like you would in a manual with the brake and clutch).

For that reason alone I personally would never left foot brake in an auto in any circumstance. Keeping your left legout of the way works for me when I have to drive an auto (which thankfully now is very infrequent - last time was 2010).

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - Palcouk

Any decent Lexus dealer would have given you a loan car whilst your was in.

99% sure this was caused by driver error - sorry to say

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - focussed

HJ has expressed the same opinion as myself -didn't know it was on here at the time the thread was running, so for reference:-

www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/driving-automatics-safely/

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - Collos25

If the OP sites this garbage to his insurance company then they will have an absolute excuse for not paying.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - focussed

I see you are back to your old ways Collos25 - just because you don't agree with the accepted wisdom of how to do something you describe it as garbage.

I suspect that you could be one of the old school who refuse to drive according to the Highway Code and use the Myway Code instead.

Lexus CT 200h - Hybrid Unwanted Acceleration - SIU

Hi Debbie25

I am very interested in your post and the evidence you claim to have and especially with your vehicle the CT200h?

Could you please email me your contact details to investigations@manninsecurity.com
please? Someone from our office will be in touch with you to discuss this matter further.

Regards

Special Investigations Unit