Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service

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Fri 27 Dec 2013 16:26
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - kev21903

Recently had my car serviced and the garage left the sump plug loose. On the way home the plug came out and the car drained oil. I got a warning light just before arriving home but im not certain how long I drove without oil.

I called the AA and the guy confirmed what had happened and took some photos for me.

The guarge revovered the car and have changed the oil 3 times and say the car is OK.

The problem is that although it runs OK the fuel efficiency has definitely dropped by 20% of it pre service level.

The garage say the car is OK but I think damage has been done.

What can I do in this instance?

Kev

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Fri 27 Dec 2013 16:54
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - skidpan

To get anywhere you need to get an engineers report carried out on the engine. They will need to partially strip it at the very minimum to ascertain if any damage has been caused by oil starvation. You will have to pay for this and it will cost good money, possibly 4 figures.

If the report says all is OK that is it, money gone and no case against garage plus you will have to pay to have the engine reasembled.

If there is damage you will then have to approach the garage who carried out the work with the evidence you have i.e. the AA report and photos plus the engineers report. If they say no its off to court. If you go to court and win there is no garantee you will be awarded the full cost of repair or be reimbured the cost of the enginneers report. Even if you win there is no garantee the garage will pay you a penny. Then it off to the bayliffs (or whatever they call them today) and even then there is no garantee you will get a penny.

And all this time your car is off the road in bits.

Forget the mpg, you cannot prove anything in respect to that and at this time of year all cars do less mpg, diesels especially.

If the engine had sustained damage it would soon have become obvious, the bottom end would start knocking. If its quiet and the pressure light goes of quickly after starting its probably fine.

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Fri 27 Dec 2013 17:05
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - RT

If we're talking recently, the last half of November and first half of December was much warmer than usual so very recent fuel figures will take a nosedive.

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Fri 27 Dec 2013 22:43
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - gordonbennet

What a mess.

Why would the garage change the oil three times, either its got oil or it hasn't, oil doesn't have additives that gradually rebuild bearings, cam lobes or piston rings that have run dry, i think they are spinning a yarn there as mitigation.

What warning light came on?, low oil pressure light, or low oil level light (does it have one), if the low oil pressure light came on then i would be worried...can you estimate the quantity of oil that came out after you stopped.

Fuel consumption, could it be in the middle of a regen at the moment if DPF'd?

As above I have a feeling you'll be struggling to get immediate action on this, so if its a garage you have used regularly and basically trust (well, before this) their word as good, maybe you could negotiate a written guarantee to fix premature engine failure for at least the next 12 months from them....its not ideal but might be a solution.

Going legal should be avoided if at all possible IMO, however tempting.

Edited by gordonbennet on 27/12/2013 at 22:44

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Sat 28 Dec 2013 10:11
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - nortones2
Oil analysis will show wear metals, and whether abnormal.
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Sat 28 Dec 2013 10:21
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - RT
Oil analysis will show wear metals, and whether abnormal.

Not when all the original oil has drained and already changed 3 times by dealer.

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Sat 28 Dec 2013 12:19
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - kev21903

They changed the oil to flush out any metalic particles. The filtered the oil and used a magnet to detect any metal damage.

Not sure what to do next now? I think I will get an engineers report and take it from there.

Thanks for your comments so far.

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Sat 28 Dec 2013 12:21
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - kev21903

gordonbennet - what is the regen and DPF'd?

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Sat 28 Dec 2013 15:36
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - gordonbennet

what is the regen and DPF'd?

Assuming the vehicle has a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), it will periodically regenerate itself and some designs do this by squirting extra fuel in to burn the soot off in the filter, i can't tell you how long this go on for or how often as i avoid such things where possible, but there could well be an increase in fuel usage during regen.

Others here can give you far more information than i.

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Sat 28 Dec 2013 12:39
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - FP

"They changed the oil to flush out any metalic particles. The filtered the oil and used a magnet to detect any metal damage."

So were there any?

"I think I will get an engineers report and take it from there."

An engineer will be able to do very little without extensive dismantling, at a cost to you which might be difficult to recoup. Even if he found some evidence of damage, proving this was the result of the garage's action could be difficult.

As has been said above, I would really urge you to think very carefully before starting a process that could be very expensive to you. At the moment you have virtually nothing to go on. Basing a course of action on vague surmise is going to end in tears, or at least a hole in your pocket..

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Sat 28 Dec 2013 13:04
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - nortones2

If bearings (and other parts) are damaged by oil starvation, they will wear at a higher rate. If all is well, then there will be normal amounts of wear metals. At least, that is my understanding.

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Sat 28 Dec 2013 21:14
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - Cyd

Have an independant garage carry out a compression test and compare the results to specification. If one or more pots are well down this would suggest oil starvation resulted in bore and/or ring wear.

Did you STOP as soon as the light came on or continue to drive? Your text suggests you carried on - that's when the bulk of any damage will have been done and will be your responsibility. There's a reason the oil pressure light is RED.

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Sun 29 Dec 2013 00:52
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - kev21903

Thanks again for all the comments

Cyd - the light flicked on and then went off for a while so I monitored the light for a while but it didnt come on again.

Later when I was a few hundred yards from home i noticed the light was on again. So I stopped as soon as it was safe to do so. I have heard people say before you must stop straight away but wear or damage to an engine loses to putting life at risk (and I dont believe it would have been safe to stop before I did)

It a very interesting perspective you have though, 33 miles with the sump plug loose and leaking oil versus a few hundered yards with a warning light on, where does the liability liay? The profession mechanic changing £££ per hour or the driver making a judgement on an A road in rush hour traffic.

I realise it not good to get lawers involved. I am a professional engineer and early in my career I was involved in a legal case with a company who had caused huge delays on a project as a result of neglect. The company I worked for persued it through the courts and it cost over $1million in legal costs. We won but it bancrupted the other side and we only got about $1million back after several years of fighting.

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Sun 29 Dec 2013 10:30
Land Rover Freelander 2 - Bad Service - skidpan

Have an independant garage carry out a compression test and compare the results to specification. If one or more pots are well down this would suggest oil starvation resulted in bore and/or ring wear.

Pointless excercise. Bores are only fed by splash and it would take many hundreds of miles for noticable wear to take place.

Its the crank that suffers damage first.

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