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Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - SimonT2

I wonder whether anyone has any views on whether a particular make or car has better quality components making up its construction than others. I once had a Lexus LS430 and the brake discs, for example, were very heavy and of good quality. I also think that modern cars seem to be getting lighter and flimsier components as manufacturers try to save money and push up MPG?

Anyone like to suggest a car which is better made than others - leaving out super cars and Rolls Royce's etc etc

Kind Regards SimonT2

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - craig-pd130

Good question. I remember Georg Kacher of Car magazine reporting a conversation he'd had with a Mercedes-Benz engineer shortly after the launch of the original Lexus LS400, in the very early 90s.

The engineer said that his team at M-B had bought an LS to strip down, so they could see what these new upstarts were up to. Apparently the M-B team was horrified by the evident quality of suspension arm castings and major components, etc., and that building an S-class Merc to the same standard of quality would have seen the 'cost price' of the car increase by around 50%. This was at the time that M-B quality was still very high.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - Andrew-T

I also think that modern cars seem to be getting lighter and flimsier components as manufacturers try to save money and push up MPG?

If they are, it may be about time. Twenty years ago many small cars came in at under a ton - even the 205 GTi was well under. Then the gismos, mostly for safety such as airbags, crumple zones and side crash-bars, crept in needing more space and heavier panels. After that came all the toys like cameras and satnavs, all needing just a bit more space.

The overall effect was to largely cancel out the fuel consumption advantage introduced with electronic injection. It's time to reverse the trend towards automobile obesity.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - gordonbennet

For a durable if not massively corrosion resistant service lfe i think you have a job to beat van based cars, eg Berlingo.

Similar with things like Toyota Landcruiser/Hilux, virtually indestructible but often criticised in some sections for not having the best road manners, well blow me down a vehicle capable of lasting years subject to serious off road abuse isn't a hot hatch on the B twisties..:)

I think Lexus still are the best engineered of the medium large luxury cars, usually far more reliable than the competition.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - madf

I wonder whether anyone has any views on whether a particular make or car has better quality components making up its construction than others

You can tell the quality of a design and its manufacture by how it withstands abuse and age.It's easy to amke a car last 5 years. It's when the third owner neglects it or components wear out through wear or collapse (like Jaguar S type radiators tend to do - as an example ) that you can see design quality shine through.

On that basis, Honda, Toyota and Mitsubishi stand out - as did pre 2000 Peugeots and Renaults. On the same basis, BMWs do not figure well, nor do Nissan, Modern Renaults or Peugeot. Mercedes benz are not worthy of mention - given their price and well known issues over injectors, rust, gearbox radiators etc.. Jaguar, Land Rover and Fiat are very bad also rans.

Companies with inherent design flaws which the manufacturer ignores - see VAG ABS systems -can be largely treated as poor quality.

Much depends upon component supplier quality - see also electronics - and here the Japanese excel.




Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - Peter.N.

Peugeot 406s with the early 8 valve Hdi engines are also very good until they introduced the 16 valve unit in about 04, likewise the early C5s.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - mss1tw

For a durable if not massively corrosion resistant service lfe i think you have a job to beat van based cars, eg Berlingo.

Similar with things like Toyota Landcruiser/Hilux, virtually indestructible but often criticised in some sections for not having the best road manners, well blow me down a vehicle capable of lasting years subject to serious off road abuse isn't a hot hatch on the B twisties..:)

I think Lexus still are the best engineered of the medium large luxury cars, usually far more reliable than the competition.

I think even the Berlingos are pretty rust-proof, and I haven't seen any other mini van type vehicles (Caddy, Combo*, etc) with rust, not even the Transit Connect which is quite something for a Ford.

*Modern ones that is. The W reg era ones were total rust buckets.

Looking at it from a different perspective, how 'tough' are the huge variety of pickups now available that have been turned into cars with a flat bed? All mouth no trousers?

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - gordonbennet
Looking at it from a different perspective, how 'tough' are the huge variety of pickups now available that have been turned into cars with a flat bed? All mouth no trousers?

We bought a new Hilux in 07 maintained it very well and ran it for 3.5 years and sold it on (lost 1/3rd of its new price so very good depreciation indeed) during which time it served us without a hiccup and nothing broke...save Toyota replaced the slightly noisy injectors under warranty as they were starting to cause noisy running, known problem which Toyota as always own up to and fix...still live rear axled and cart sprung, still RWD (LSD) normal with selectable 4WD...no DPF and the only electronic stuff was either necessary or legally required, no silly toys to go wrong.

Chassis far stronger than previous models, robust and simple stuff still, greasable propshafts but not ball joints mores the pity, plastic front bumper but thats because you're not allowed to have a proper bumper (lump of steel) any more.

I

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - Avant

An interesting topic, perhaps not unrelated to the current thread on soundproofing. Moved to a potentially wider audience in Motoring.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - SimonT2

For a durable if not massively corrosion resistant service lfe i think you have a job to beat van based cars, eg Berlingo.

I think GordonBennett has a very good point above i.e. van based cars as obviously manufacturers put more quality into commercial vehicles as they know they are going to be misused more?

Can anyone give me a list of said "Van based cars"?

Kind Regards SimonT2

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - gordonbennet

PSA are the obvious ones (often tied in with Fiat), Berlingo/Partner but also the little Bipper/Nemo/Qubo, they have history of this windowed Expert vans (and Fiats identical Scudo) were and still are the basis for Eurotaxi, and the smaller 806 previously shared many components with the vans which translated them as being one of the best mid sized MPV's ever in my humble, 807 got too clever for its own good.

Look at Berlingo as an example, seems almost identical to the C4 Picasso but notably the electric parking brake was sensibly dumped in favour of traditional, my driving experiences of the vans shows them to be more usefully mapped with better low engine speed torque than cars fitted with the same engine, my only regret with Berlingo is that they never fitted a proper TC auto gearbox, i'd have had one like a shot and the dealers i used to deliver them to told me they could have sold hundreds more of them, if only.

Renault Kangoo (now discontinued in Britain) Fiat Qubo and Doblo both vans and MPvs. Hyundai iLoad/i800

Quite a few players in the Transit sized van range, apart from Tranny !..;) Vauxhall Vivaro and its Nissan/Renault equivalent available with increasingly extra seating up to full mini bus and VW with the Caddi Maxi and Caravelle/Transporter range which have become a cult.

Nearly forgot MB with the Vito van and its expensive and similarly prone to rust MPV equivalents.

Bet theres lots more though, and lots of grey imports from Japan from Toyota and Nissan and Mazda too when you start to search.

Edited by gordonbennet on 28/09/2013 at 15:34

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - SteveLee

Even Lexus get it wrong, is200s were known for eating corrosion happy rear discs, there have been plenty of Lexus and Toyora recalls thanks to cheap nasty bought in components - TPS sensors etc. At least they usually sort the problems - unlike most manufacturers.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - pd

If you're a car manufacturer who currently buys a sensor from Bosch which costs $30 and generally lasts 120k miles and 10 years but HiTec Deadly Plastic Toy & Car Parts Concern Ltd offers you one for $15 which lasts 80k and 5 years and you offer a 3 year 60k warranty there is massive temptation to save yourself $15 a car and buy the cheaper. When you factor in an ever increasing number of your customers will be buying on a 3 year lease-type deal anyway then buying another one the temptation is ever greater.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - madf

Cheap components which fail sooner are OK for the consumer:

IF

They are not mission critical (the car stoops and won't go - think engine sensors)

They are easy to replace

They are cheap to replace.

I replaced an ABS sensor on son's 2001 1.0 Yaris . Took 30 minutes and cost £30 from an non OE supplier. (Toyota wanted c £100 for the part alone.)

Diagnosis was easy with some logical thought and a multimeter costing £11 from ebay.

EDIT:

It was a front sensor. A rear one is integral with the bearing so £70 for non OE hub and bearing - £200 from Toyota..Eek!

Edited by madf on 29/09/2013 at 14:34

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - corax

Some of older cars like the BMW E34 and Mercedes W124 are known for their longevity. Strong engines and drivetrain. Very good long lasting autoboxes on the Mercedes in particular. Quality components that last a long time, and can be refurbished.

Not just the mechanical components but also interiors where seats that don't sink for year after year, and plastics that remain scratch free.

I couldn't say which modern cars will pass the test of time because they haven't been proven yet. But Lexus don't seem to have diminished in their build quality.

I take it we are talking about cars where everything still works after so many years, rather than cars that are capable of big mileage, but don't look so good when they are say ten years old.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - gordonbennet
I take it we are talking about cars where everything still works after so many years,

Thats my personal definition of a quality car Corax.

Initial price tag and badge on the front means not a jot, some good value from new Korean cars (following in previous superb Japanese footsteps) now very cheap qualify, Hyundais in particular, an Accent MVi and Coupe S2 of which hold the record of being the only cars my son couldn't break no matter how hard he tried.

Old square Landcruisers must be some of the best quality vehicle produced anywhere at any time, the world is till stacked with twenty plus year old examples which simply refuse to break down, simple tough vehicles made to be fixed in the field with standard tools, what more could you want from an all terain utility vehicle.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - corax
Old square Landcruisers must be some of the best quality vehicle produced anywhere at any time,

I saw one of those 'worlds most dangerous roads' programmes, and they were using a Lexus LX450. Is that just a more luxurious version of the Landcruiser gb?

Great car.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - gordonbennet

Yes basically it is a posh LC.

If i had your money though i'd love to own a 105, which is the hardcore version of the standard Amazon 100 sold here between 1999 and 2006 ish.

105 is the one usually specced by the UN and others for similar work and sold in parts of the world needing something a bit tougher, back to real steel springs and the softer front transmission of 100 replaced with the good old live front axle and steelies from the 80 series, unbreakable.

I believe they are still making the good old 70 series too, which get sold as troop carriers and very hardcore pickups, its was my old 70 series which saved SWMBO when she took some railings out battering ram style at about 50mph a good few years ago, she shoved it in 4WD and reversed through the debris and out again, one accident where no crumple zone was a good thing.

Edited by gordonbennet on 29/09/2013 at 18:11

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - SteveLee

But did the complete lack of grip from the primative suspension result in the accident in the first place? Perhaps a car with a better chassis would have got her out of trouble?

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - gordonbennet

But did the complete lack of grip from the primative suspension result in the accident in the first place? Perhaps a car with a better chassis would have got her out of trouble?

Er no, got stung by something that had some unforseen adverse reaction, she's normally a very competent driver but ended up with her foot wedged under the brake pedal and down on the throttle, just one of those things.

Glad she wasn't in her little company Punto, the thought of that little tin can and steel railings still makes me shudder.

She owned and drove her own removals lorry at one time, has been a motorcycle courier, mini cabber and chauffeuse at different times, there isn't much she can't handle motorised or otherwise.

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - mss1tw

She owned and drove her own removals lorry at one time, has been a motorcycle courier, mini cabber and chauffeuse at different times, there isn't much she can't handle motorised or otherwise.

That's what we call a 'keeper'! ;-)

Lexus LS430 - Quality of Parts making up modern cars? - daveyK_UK

from a very limited sample pool (my friend manages a garage), chevrolet cars have a life shelf of 5 years.

He was keen to point out the daewoo based products where a bit more robust part wise (matiz, tacuma).