|
You buy a P/X car on a TRADE SALE basis AS SEEN with NO WARRANTY which has explicitly NOT BEEN MECHANICALLY CHECKED in any way and five weeks later the clutch wears out. Obviously you have your satutory rights, of course you do, but are they worth the paper they're written on or should everyone just point and laugh at you?
It's the first car you ever bought so you're definitely a total ignoramus. You are also a single mum with a disabled child and therefore short of cash and tolerance for knobjockeys and would probably pursue a claim quite far, if it had a reasonable chance of success.
What do you do now?
(2003 Ford KA for £800.)
|
|
You simply cannot expect a 10 year old car for £800 to be perfect and free from faults. If you want perfect buy new and get a warranty worth the paper its written on.
Sorry if that appears harsh but when I bought my first few cars they were 10 years old, cost £80 (4 weeks wages) and were pretty rubbish. 40 years on that £80 is probably worth £800 but at least you get decent body work for your money today, back then the only garantee was the thing was a death trap.
|
|
There was no expectation of perfection, skidpan. I wasn't expecting to have to spend £250/£300 on a new clutch within 5 weeks of purchase is all, and I guess that was naive. Thanks for your input anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
As Skidpan says, this age and price of car can be expected to have some faults. If sold 'as seen, trade sale, not mechanically checked in any way' then it is hard to agree you have been ripped off.(If taken is as a P/X and not checked, the seller would not know the clutch was likely to fail soon, so no deliberate sharp practice.)
With sympathy for your situation, did you know no-one (father, uncle, neighbour) who had some knowledge of cars who could have guided you in your car purchase? It would be useful to find someone who can recommend a good independent garage to keep your costs down.
|
|
|
|
We have all been in similar situations as we all started out with our 1st car, Usually a banger. Cars do go wrong and what you paid is a ok price for a ten year old car.
Ford/Vauxhalls are quite common so parts are reasonable cheap new or second hand compared to never vehicles, A 57 plate renault laguna gear box is £700 second hands so as you can see its just nature of the beast. Its easy to buy a car but a fortune to run it.
As you have a disabled child are you not entitled to a mobility vehicle? This would be ideal as all you pay is petrol i believe. I could be wrong.
With regards to your question its not worth following through as you are in the sold as seen domain, Still a grey area but not worth the aggro following through in my opinion
|
|
Speak to Trading Standards who will advise on the latest in SOGA and any case law that may assist although I would not be looking at this thorugh rose tinted glasses.
dvd
|
|
Michael's point abive is worth taking up if you haven't already: have a look at www.motability.co.uk and see if you are eligible for help.
|
|
I agree that this is an old car but under SOGA, and if there is a fault soon after purchase, is it not up to the dealer to prove that the fault was not present when the car was sold? I suppose the fact that it lasted 3 or 4 weeks means that, technically, there was nothing wrong with at the point od sale?
|
|
I'm going to guess the Original Poster is the seller, rather than then purchaser???
|
|
Unlikely - if she were a private seller she wouldn't be worried as she wouldn't be liable for this problem under the Sale of Goods Act.
|
|
No you misunderstand me, read the wording again of the original post - It doesn't read quite right, indeed if it is the purchaser who is posing the question on this forum.
|
|
I am the buyer Simon, as you can see from my further post.
Thanks for input everyone, I'll speak to Trading Standards and get a sense of the situation from their perspective, but probably basically take my lumps on this one.
In chess they say, "You're not losing if you're learning." I shall try and feel the same about cars and driving.
L
|
|
There is a reason why a car, when it gets to a certain age, is worth £800 and not £8000. It is because it is substancially worn out, near the end of its life and liable to need money spending on it.
A clutch is just a wear and tear item which needs replacing. Unless it has failed dramatically early (and judging by the price of the car it hasn't) then it has just reached the end of its natural life.
The SoGA may protect from faults or unusual failures but a worn clutch is not a fault - it is a worn out part. You accept that risk when you choose to buy a cheap car and because they are risky is why they are cheap.
A clutch on a Ka is not a big job - a lot of mechanics could do it by the side of the road with a trolly jack. Just accept it needs a new clutch and get it done.
|
|
Just to add. The buyer has not been ripped off or a sucker. It is just a cheap car which needs something repaired.
Here are the news headlines: You can't buy cheap cars and expect to just put petrol in them. They need maintenance and will continue doing so. A clutch, along with brakes, tyres, oil changes, suspension parts is just part and parcel of motoring costs. Sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't.
If you can't accept that, buy or lease a new car, don't buy old ones.
|
|
|
You don't say whether you bought from a trader, but as it is a 'p/x' I presume you did. I use a simple rule of thumb, that a trader will try for a margin of about £1000 on resale, to cover comebacks and other expenses. So your trader will have picked up this car for next to nothing, which may be its approximate trade value. In other words it needs work doing. You might have been lucky and got several months use out of it, but it seems you didn't, which is a pity.
The simple lesson is (as has been pointed out) - start out on your car-buying road with a knowledgeable accomplice. Even an unknowledgeable one can be very useful.
|
|
The OP has already arrived at a sound conclusion..by investigating her possibilities with TS....
Now, what she needs is options?
Does the OP have access to a good, sound, independant garage who will do an honest job for a reasonable price?
As mentioned above, a clutch change on a KA/Fiesta isn't a difiiciult or long-winded job, and the parts are quite cheap.
Might be worth getting said garage to take a once-over the Ka? Just to hlite other service items that might need seeing to, soon? MAybe even cough up for a decent service?
A car is only at the end of it's life when the bits holding the wheels apart no longer do so !
|
You don't say whether you bought from a trader, but as it is a 'p/x' I presume you did. I use a simple rule of thumb, that a trader will try for a margin of about £1000 on resale, to cover comebacks and other expenses. So your trader will have picked up this car for next to nothing, which may be its approximate trade value. In other words it needs work doing. You might have been lucky and got several months use out of it, but it seems you didn't, which is a pity.
The simple lesson is (as has been pointed out) - start out on your car-buying road with a knowledgeable accomplice. Even an unknowledgeable one can be very useful.
How does a trader make £1000 on a car they sold for £800?! It scraps for £150!!
There is nothing like £1000 margin at that end of the market - more like £200-£300 after costs.
Even on more expensive cars outside of the main dealer networks very few cars will allow a £1000 margin (unless it is something which takes 6 months to sell). £500-£700 on a £4k ish car is more like it after prep, VAT, advertising etc.
|
|
"How does a trader make £1000 on a car they sold for £800?! It scraps for £150!! "
Exactly - the trader valued it at close to zero - what it is 'worth', if you like.
"There is nothing like £1000 margin at that end of the market - more like £200-£300 after costs."
I suppose I should have said Mark-up, not Margin.
|
"How does a trader make £1000 on a car they sold for £800?! It scraps for £150!! "
Exactly - the trader valued it at close to zero - what it is 'worth', if you like.
"There is nothing like £1000 margin at that end of the market - more like £200-£300 after costs."
I suppose I should have said Mark-up, not Margin.
I don't get how you make a £1000 mark-up or margin on something sold for £800.
The trader would have valued it at its bottom book auction price - i.e. what they could have got for it by trading it on to another trader or selling at auction. That's probably about £400 judging by what running, MOT'd Ka's of any description get. Out of the £400 potential profit would have been about £70 VAT liability, maybe £50 prep and cleaning leaving about £280 magin assuming nothing else needed doing and no advertising costs.
I'm sorry but you are way out of touch with the margins or mark-ups make on used cars these days at the lower level of the market.
|
|
Thanks. My maths (fairly advanced) is good enough to see that £1000 is greater than £800. I only said I used a grand as a rule of thumb - cars offered for less than that are not 'worth' very much, by definition.
Edited by Andrew-T on 16/09/2013 at 12:21
|
|
|
|
|
At the bottom end of the car market, this is the way the cookie crumbles.
|
|
|
