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Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - cdavis89

I've read a lot of posts and they've given me some things to think about but nothing that fits my issue.

the car is a UK Ford Focus 1.6 TDCI on a 55 plate (First registered in 2005 I believe) Other than a new turbo it's stock.

The problems started a couple of weeks ago when I went to unlock the car with the fob and nothing happened. To cut a long story short the car was dead and after first getting imobiliser PAT code 12 I took the battery off for half an hour, reconnected and got a jump start and all was good for a while. After speaking to a friend of a friend who is a ford mechanic he suggested that the recent rain might have got into the fuse box under the glove compartment and caused a drain on the battery as he has fixed a few of these cars with that issue. Seemed unlikely but the car was working so I drove as usual.

Then two days ago I was driving in the rain, hoping the car would work fine which it was until we parked up and came back to the car 10 minutes later. The car unlocked fine, PAT light was flashing as usual etc.. put the key in, turned it to ignition and it immediately died. Back down to 4.7ish volts on the battery. Got a jump start and drove it home, as long as the engine wasn't turned off it was fine. As we got home and I was about to park up I heard the relays under the glove box start clicking like mad as my power steering/braking died and all the dash lights flashed on. Lasted a couple of seconds and everything came back (engine remained on the whole time).

The next morning it started fine so I hoped all was well. 50 miles later in the rain after parking up for about 5 minutes the same thing happened. got a jump start and went home, about 5 minutes of driving and I hear the relays clicking like mad, power steering goes, no lights, no radio display, nothing. Car stalls and we coast into a layby. Again the battery is ready 4.7ish volts, slightly erracitcally so I guess the battery is naff.

I figure that if there is a drain on the battery it should show a slightly higher reading when the positive lead is disconnected so I take that lead off and test the battery. 12.7 volts, perfectly full battery, that's not right.... Reconnect the positive lead and still at 12.7 volts. The battery was never dead instead it had an 8 volt drain on it somewhere which was cleared after disconnecting it for 5 seconds. Start the car and everything runs fine, alternator is putting out nearly 14 volts, all instruments and lights work so we gingerly drive home. We get home mostly without incident except for the power steering light showing for about 10 seconds (even though steering felt fine for that time) and then a random stall just after leaving a toll booth. Hazard lights were still working after the stall so the drain had rectified itself and the car started fine and we got home.

To summarise: Car develops a battery drain that "neutralises" about 8 volts during the rain. The drain only seems to occur AFTER I turn the ignition (Since remote locking still works BEFORE turning it then after turning it I loose ALL electrical systems, seems the ignition causes the drain)

Drain is *possibly* cured by disconnecting the battery for just a few seconds.

Battery *seems* fine since it starts the car reliably once the drain is "rectified"

Alternator puts out about 14 volts at idle

Any ideas? Going to try to put my multimeter on the battery and pull fuses to identify which circuit causes the drain although I will only be able to test it when the drain is "active" IE after trying to start the car and failing.

Only other issue is that the Horn stopped working several weeks ago even though the fuse is fine. Is it possible that the horn wires behind the grill are getting wet and causing an 8v drain?

I just want to see if there's anything I can do before getting it to a garage!

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - madf

Open the fuse box and look for moisture.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - cdavis89

I've had a quick look and couldn't see any. The box in the engine compartment is definitely bone dry but I was having trouble pulling out the large block of electrics on the passenger footwell box. These are the two large bundles of cables that bring power in/out of the box at hte top left and bottom right. Is there a trick for disconnecting these connections to check for moisture?

Cheers.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - elekie&a/c doctor

Could be an alternator fault.Can you hear a growl from the alternator when the engine is running.A voltage of 14.2 volts engine running is too low.It is possible that the alternator is drawing current with engine off.Also have you had the battery checked correctly?These need to have a conductance test for correct analysis.hth

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - cdavis89

I haven't heard anything I'd describe as unusual with the bonnet open but I haven't got an expert ear, I'll see if I can have a listen though, I know where the alternator is so I'll stick my ear in there and listen. What sort of voltage would I be expecting to see at idle? This was measured across the positive battery terminal to the grounding nut on the suspension mount, not directly from the alternator.

Battery hasn't been tested, the only reason I suspect it's not a battery issue is the fact that the engine starts first time every time when the issue isn't present, but if it's still possibly battery related then I'll get that tested properly. I'm assuming there isn't a solid test I can do with just a bog standard multimeter at home?!

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - cdavis89

Update: Alternator sounds normal to my untrained ear. While measuring the battery with the engine running I get 13.8 volts, turning lights/fans/heaters on the voltage drops then recovers to 13.8, revving the engine makes it rise until it levels out very quickly at 13.8 volts, this is across the battery terminals.

Engine started the first few times (been driizling with rain all day) then finally showed the issue again however this time the battery still measures 12.4ish volts throughout (last time this happened it droppedd to 4.7 then returned after disconnecting the positive) Tried it a few times. Each time the starter sounds like it spins fo a split second before everything, dash, lights etc.. go dead. After a couple of tries there is a rapid clicking noise coming from either the glove compartment fuse area or around that area, perhaps behind the center of the dash, this sound gets fast and faster and continues for a while after turning the key back to 0 (off). Also, while the main llights seems to work, trying to turn the hazard lights on while the key is in the OFF position results in the same symptom of the dash etc... going blank for a second annd a BUMH type sound from (I think) the stero, as though it was turned off/on or got a surge of power.

I'm going to find a decent garage to put it into i think, cheers for the replies though, if you or anyone else has any other simple suggestions to try please do let me know! I'll try to remember to update this thread when the issue is fixed just in case anyone else has something similar.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - elekie&a/c doctor

Depending how accurate your meter is,I would say that the charge voltage is too low.However this could be due to the battery being in trouble.If the battery does prove to be faulty,make sure it is replaced with the correct calcium type,as charging voltages on these ford smart charge systems can peak at around 16 volts.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - cdavis89

Thanks, is 16 volts the expected charge voltage that it should be getting?

The multimeter is set to 20v and is accurate to 2 decimal points, fairly cheap little hobby meter but does the trick. After thinking it through I'm tempted to test the main relays, I'll have to do some googling on that aspect. Definitely not the 12v relay in the passenger fuse box as I had that out and the car still tried to start (no idea what that relay is for but didn't seem to affect it after taking it out! Back in place now though).

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - dieselnut

It's unlikely to be a relay as too many circuits are affected by the fault.

It sounds like a poor connexion close to the battery or the battery itself. If the battery is old I would just change it as it may even test ok at the time, but fail later. Batteries sometimes go open circuit internally but only intermittently.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - cdavis89

Cheers, depending on repair costs etc... I will probably have a new battery fitted, no idea how long it's been in there so it could be on it's way out.

Just had a good look at the engine compartment fuse box and there's some water just under the plastic liner meaning it's likely shorting or at least affecting the fuses in some way. The real question is how the hell it got in there in the first place though... Lined it with kitchen roll and left the lid off the fuse box in the hope it will dry itself out. Hopefully the water ingress is the issue in which case I can afford to have it serviced and have a new battery put in!

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - dieselnut

Water in the fuse box will almost certainly have caused some corossion & probably be the cause of your problems. Inspect everything in there carefully including all the fuses & relays. Make a note of the location of everything before starting. Disconnect the battery before you start.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - cdavis89

Cheers, not sure if you've played with these fux boxes so you might not be able to answer but there is a plastic "plate" that lays on top of the electrical ports, like a layer between the actual fuse/relay and the fuse box behind it, do you know if it's possible to remove this white transparent plastic? The water is under it so without removing that I'ts going to be a real pain to ensure it's properly dry and corrosion free.

Any idea how or where the water might have got in there? I've lined it all with kitchen roll and noticed it had got wet as water came in just above the top of the suspension mount but I dont see how the water could have got into the box itself, although perhaps while doing 30-40mph the rain could have built up *shrug* bit of a mystery there.

As for remaking the battery connections how would I go about that? Remove the old battery and thoroughly clean it with some wire wool and solvent and do the same for the connecting wire/terminal? (obviously making sure I dont short the battery out while doing it, that would hurt...)

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - dieselnut

Cleaning the battery terminals as you describe is fine. After cleaning, thinly coat the terminals with some vasseline to stop future corrosion.

I think the water gets forced into the fuse box from underneath if you hit a large puddle.

The fuse box really needs to come out for close inspection to all the conexions. You may need a good auto electrician if you arn't confident.

Edited by dieselnut on 12/09/2013 at 15:40

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - cdavis89

Cheers, will consider the battery cleaning but it means taking the wipers off to ge the cowling off to reach the back end of the battery. Cheaper than a new one though!

Assuming the water in the fuse box is the issue is there anything I can do to protect the box? I dont remember driving through any decent puddles last weekend when it stopped working, that's the worrying part!

I'm not too keen on removing the fuse box so I might well get our friendly ford mechanic to have a look. Going to try to remove all the fuses etc... tonight and remove the plastic plate to see how much water is under there and hopefully dry it all out and check for corrosion.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - Andrew-T

Have you cleaned and remade the battery connections? I have fitted a new battery unnecessarily in the past when the real problem was dirty connections.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - elekie&a/c doctor

It is not necessary to remove the wipers to get the battery out.Release the front positive connection and the battery hold down bracket.Undo the earth lead from the bolt that holds it to the suspension turret then slide the battery forward.Suggest that you hold the earth tag on the top mount before undoing the bolt,they are usually tight.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - cdavis89

Ahhh thanks for that, it's knowledge like that which saves people like me a lot of trouble and time!

On the subject of the battery there is a small amount of green crystals around the positive termal, is this acid leakage or general corrosion? The crystals are in a small clump and the terminal itself is covered in a film of grease (which I think is a good thing). Something I need to think about in terms of battery replacement or just careful remove it and carry on as usual? I've made sure not to rub my eyes or mouth etc... just incase it is acid.

The good news is that the car is now working reliably, I took all the fuses and relays out of the box and prised the white plastic plate out, what I was surprised at is the fact that the water wasn't water at all but rather a thin oil, something like cooking oil in viscocity and colour in a film across most of the top half of the fuse box. Would that be considered relatively normal?

My worry now is that the car has dried out (even though it's been raining on and off and damp all week) and that's why it now seems to be fixed but as soon as we get a downpour or I drive in the wet the problem will come back. As far as I know oils aren't usually conduct electricity so is it possible that this oily stuff was the issue?

Fuse connections etc all seemed pretty corrosion free.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - dieselnut

The green crystals are just a sign that the battery has had no maintenance for a long time.

If you remove the connexions & clean them then coat with vasseline before re-assembly, they will be fine for a long time.

Have you had the car for a while? Just wondering if a previous owner had a problem with the fuse box & sprayed something in there previously.

It could be with all the disturbance to the relays & fuses that you have resolved the poor connexion, but it may only be temporary. If it is the battery connexion causing your problem then cleaning will give you a permanent fix. Time will tell.

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - cdavis89

I've only had it about 6 months, it's entirely possible that someone has sprayed WD40 in there at some point (a damn lot of it) but it didn't have that lovely smell of WD40 :/

The battery connections look fairly good but it's a definite possibility that it's a battery issue since when it broke down on me I "fixed" it by taking the positive terminal off and putting it back on again.

Have to see if I can clean the battery up this weekend. Drove it into work today as a bit of a test, fingers crossed it gets me home without incident!

Ford Focus Saloon - Ford Focus TDCI 55 Plate Rain/Electrical issue? - thebobbyshaw

My focus has just developed the same issue, have you managed to get yours fully sorted? I can jump start the car with no problem as I did last night but trying to start again today it's doing the same thing.....