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I stopped paying attention to car reviews about a year or so ago. I was an avid reader of the usual glossy car mags but have come to realise most of it is it just rubbish now.
For example, my Zafira is universally slated by the motoring press. Yet it is comfortable, has been reliable and nothing creaks, rattles or has fallen off. That compares poorly with my VW Passat which was rattly,unreliable and overall very disappointing. I belived the hype with my previous 2009 Golf, but that was the poorest built car I've experienced for a while!
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I stopped paying attention to car reviews about a year or so ago. I was an avid reader of the usual glossy car mags but have come to realise most of it is it just rubbish now.
For example, my Zafira is universally slated by the motoring press. Yet it is comfortable, has been reliable and nothing creaks, rattles or has fallen off. That compares poorly with my VW Passat which was rattly,unreliable and overall very disappointing. I belived the hype with my previous 2009 Golf, but that was the poorest built car I've experienced for a while!
Yopu are wrong.
All in your mind.
The magazines say that VAG build high quality releiable cars.
You must have been dreaming..:-)
Funny they rarely mention the unreliability of makes when they review the cars.
eg BMW diesels
VAG ABS/turbos/etc
and Peugoet evrything.
Anyone would think the magazines need the advertising revenue... such an unworthy thought.
In the 1960s CAR said teh Mark 4 Zephyr has rubbish handling due to the Goodyear tyres: Goodyear Gripless they called them. IIRC Ford stopped advertising with CAR..
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In the 1960s CAR said teh Mark 4 Zephyr has rubbish handling due to the Goodyear tyres: Goodyear Gripless they called them. IIRC Ford stopped advertising with CAR..
I seem to remember that Ford increased wheel and tyre size on the Mark 4 Zephyrs not long after their release, which made a much needed improvement to the handling. I had one for a while and it handled reasonably well for a thing that size.
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I seem to remember that Ford increased wheel and tyre size on the Mark 4 Zephyrs not long after their release, which made a much needed improvement to the handling. I had one for a while and it handled reasonably well for a thing that size.
An excellent memory you have.
I had a D plate so '66? Zodiac mk4 executive (no less;) as you recall it was fitted with 185 x 13 tyres, and yes you are quite correct in that it was undertyred as it were.
After about 2 years they were upped to 185 x 14 which did improve things no end.
Their handling was always pretty good and the ride compliant as though McPherson struts at the front remained from mk3 Zodi, it was also a first time for the excellent fully independent rear that continued into Granada.
It was a odd car with a massive bonnet and the spare wheel located in front of the radiator but in Zodi spec 3.0V6 with auto box an excellent vehicle nontheless, the same cannot be said for the Zephy i had previously as fitted with 2 litre Tranny V4 engine but high compression heads the gaskets of which regularly failed until i sussed out that torqueing them up with a 3 ft scaffold pole extension and pulling on it as hard as i could cured that problem once and for all..;)
The Zephyr also boasted the most horrible column gearchange i've ever exerienced, far worse even than a 70's MAN artic with 13 speed crash gearbox.
Edited by gordonbennet on 16/07/2013 at 19:03
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it was also a first time for the excellent fully independent rear that continued into Granada..
Dad had a Mk4 Zephyr and it most certainly did not have "fully independant rear suspension", that arrived with the Consul/Granada in 1972. Like the Mk3 the Mk4 had a live rear axle.
The Mk4 was an evil handling device, dad followed ours with a Vauxhall Cresta which from memory was bad but not as bad as the Zephyr.
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Dad had a Mk4 Zephyr and it most certainly did not have "fully independant rear suspension", that arrived with the Consul/Granada in 1972. Like the Mk3 the Mk4 had a live rear axle.
The Mk4 was an evil handling device, dad followed ours with a Vauxhall Cresta which from memory was bad but not as bad as the Zephyr.
I'm afraid you are wrong, i know because i have worked on my own extensively...the Mk4 had Lucas Girling swinging caliper (outboard) rear disc brakes as fitted (inboard) to Rover P6, mk 3 only had drums on its live rear axle.
I think you are confusing the marks.
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GB, absolutely correct as usual, all round independent suspension and discs was a well advertised selling point for the Mark 4's.
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Funny they rarely mention the unreliability of makes when they review the cars.
eg ..... and Peugoet evrything.
Bosh, madf. You are showing your prejudices again. My experience over 25 years and about 18 cars is the exact opposite. One of us must have been lucky, the other not. And please spell the marque correctly :-)
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ur prejudices again. My experience over 25 years and about 18 cars is the exact opposite. One of us must have been lucky, the other not. And please spell the marque correctly :-)
)
It's Bosch not Bosh. Please spell the name correctly :-)
You obviously don't read the reliability tables..
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I think the Reviewers are using the word 'quality' by the correct definition of comparing the attributes of one thing against those of a benchmark, rather than the modern and slightly incorrect one of where 'quality' is absolute.
Edited by Hamsafar on 16/07/2013 at 19:25
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On a similar note I read Chris Evans review of the Seat Leon SC in the Mail on Sunday and all he did was go on about the low quality of the dashboard etc.
Looking at the pictures all I could think was, it all looks ok to me?
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Looking at the pictures all I could think was, it all looks ok to me?
I often think that of most cars I see in reviews- the car's interior is not there for you to admire; the buttons need to work, everything needs to be visible (no weird coloured backlighting) and within reach. You're supposed to be looking at the road.....
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On a similar note I read Chris Evans review of the Seat Leon SC in the Mail on Sunday and all he did was go on about the low quality of the dashboard etc. Looking at the pictures all I could think was, it all looks ok to me?
Had a new Leon now for just over 4 weeks (not the SC but the 5 door has the identical dash). Been driving for about 40 years and had 24 cars in total. Take it from me the dash of the Leon is fine, simple but fine. All the magazine tests have agreed its fine. Only the Gingerous one thinks different.
If I had to moan it would be the size of the time display. Tiny one between the instuments as part of the computer display and a big easy to read one on the radio screen when the radio is off. Turn the radio on (like it is all the time) and all you get is another tiny display on the radio screen. Why not fit one easy to read time display. This moan also applies to other makes and not just Seat.
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You obviously don't read the reliability tables..
I don't need to. My vehicle may be 50% more likely to break down than some other heap, but with care and some preventive maintenance, 50% more than very little is still not a high probability. I get more fun from driving my car than sitting smugly in it.
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Funny they rarely mention the unreliability of makes when they review the cars.
eg ..... and Peugoet evrything.
Bosh, madf. You are showing your prejudices again. My experience over 25 years and about 18 cars is the exact opposite. One of us must have been lucky, the other not. And please spell the marque correctly :-)
There seem to have been an awful lot of terribly unlucky people posting in "Technical" here over the years.....
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There seem to have been an awful lot of terribly unlucky people posting in "Technical" here over the years.....
Yes.. and French cars tend to predominate..
It's chance of course.. they really are very reliable and well designed and built
and the attached table is rubbish..
http://www.anusedcar.com/index.php/tuv-model/peugeot-308
If you compare it with the Toyota Auris on that site...
The TUV must be anti French...
As must this mag:
"Peugeot's reliability record is less immaculate. The brand finished 30th out of 34 in our Driver Power satisfaction survey, while the 308 didn't even appear in the top 100.
Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/peugeot/308#ixzz2ZIaNP020
I suspect my distaste for French cars is more than simple prejudice.. (We had a near faultless 106D for 17 years)
Edited by madf on 17/07/2013 at 12:51
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There seem to have been an awful lot of terribly unlucky people posting in "Technical" here over the years.....
Most of them seem to be complaining about VAG cars these days. I can't comment on the 308 as I haven't advanced beyond a 306 or a 207.
You can pelt me with as many stats as you want - my own personal stats just don't support yours. When they begin to, I may change my mind. TeeCee and madf clearly won't change theirs. Prejudices (preferences) can be quite hard to shift.
Edited by Andrew-T on 17/07/2013 at 13:17
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Car reliability is a numbers game. There is no make with 100% reliable cars. The question is simply "how many fail?".
So it's ALL about statistics. Personal observations are interesting but in judgement on reliability they are meaningless.
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So it's ALL about statistics. Personal observations are interesting but in judgement on reliability they are meaningless.
But unless you manage a fleet, you only own and drive one car, or maybe two or three, a very small sample. None of them will be an 'average' car, and it may just possibly be 100% reliable, or 80%. Statistics are only of use to a novice owner looking to maximise his/her chances. Once the car is yours, it is a sample of one, and you are on your own.
Only a nutcase would keep switching cars looking for a holy grail. If (for example) Toyotas were very clearly much more reliable than any other make, would demand for them rise to outstrip supply, so that they commanded a price premium? That does not seem to happen (tho maybe it was always true for a Roller), so maybe the car-buying public as a whole don't take much notice of stats.
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Only a nutcase would keep switching cars looking for a holy grail. If (for example) Toyotas were very clearly much more reliable than any other make, would demand for them rise to outstrip supply, so that they commanded a price premium? That does not seem to happen
Toyotas seem to retain value better as used cars - compare prices with similar spec/age vehicles from other makers.
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They don't command a price premium because the UK public will only pay a premium for a German badge which impresses the neighbours/colleagues.
There's nothing wrong in wanting a car to act as a status symbol, but I cant understand why most who fall in this group tend to deny this.
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They don't command a price premium because the UK public will only pay a premium for a German badge which impresses the neighbours/colleagues.
There's nothing wrong in wanting a car to act as a status symbol, but I cant understand why most who fall in this group tend to deny this.
Simple. They are Followers of Fashion. Not of sufficient nous or bravery to do their own thing.
"They seek him here, they seek him there,
His clothes are loud, but never square.
It will make or break him so he's got to buy the best,
Cause he's a dedicated follower of fashion"
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/kinks/dedicated+follower+of+fashion_20078988.html
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Not sure that Fashion is the right word. Fashion usually changes fairly quickly, and the behaviour we are discussing has been going on for years. It looks like a Habit which now seems to be based on false assumptions.
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One aspect of the reliability statistics, and other tabls, is that the difference between a top place and an also ran is usually only a few percentage points, e.g. 93% versus 89%. For many, that 4 in a hundred is insignificant compared to finding a car which fits their self-image, is local, is physically appropriate etc.
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