A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 11:20

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

Which 6K family diesel estate car is best out of 407, Passat, Mondeo, BMW 3 and 5 series, Merc C class..Volvo V50 Mazda 6, Audi A4 and A6 please?

I asked this question yesterday and have a look at the answer I recieved... Funny...

If anyone can actually read my question and give me practical advice, then that would be very much appreciated...

Question From: Just J <woodalljasonb@aol.com> ============= Hello we are looking to buy a Family Diesel Estate car for £6000. We want it to last us for 5 years and we want it to be a pleasure to drive and easy on the eye. We are not rich people so reliability, practicality, economy, etc, (all the boring stuff) is very important to us... We do want (or would like) bells and whistles, kerb appeal, prestige, and toys too, All the things you get with the top end of the range cars, so my question really is; Is it better to go for a slightly older BMW, Merc, Audi, VW with more miles on it, or a newer lower mileage 407, Mazda 6, Mondeo, etcetera? It's the same old thing that we want our cake and eat it. Obviously something has to give, and we wondered what do you think is the way to go please? Also what sort of mileage is too much for each car in the group for us to be searching for? I use Autotrader and I have the search filter mileage set to under 80K. Is that too high for a car I want to have relatively cheap motoring out of for 5 years. We do between £20 and £40 a week in Diesel in our 406 at 40 MPG so I guess that's between 5K and 10K miles per year... Thanks for your help... Reply From: letters@honestjohn.co.uk =========== Pre DPF Hyundai i30 1.6CRDI SW or pre DPF KIA cee'd 1.6CRDI SW: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/kia/kia-ceed-sw-2007-road-test// Honest John

Edited by Avant on 25/06/2013 at 22:58

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 11:31

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - thunderbird

Nothing wrong with the answer. We have a Kia Ceed SW CRDi, bought it after looking at and trying most of the alternatives on the market. The boot is huge (as big a a Mondeo) and there is loads of space inside. Over nearly 30000 miles ours has averaged just over 50mpg.

Ours has a DPF but it has just regenerated when needed with little fuss, very little (if any) evidence of problems with Kia/Hyundai DPF's.

The Kia Ceed SW is way bigger than the Hyundai i30 Tourer in its original form.

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 12:37

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - oldtoffee

I know you want a diesel but with the low'ish mileage you do a petrol will be less risky than a high mileage diesel and an equivalent petrol will be less money so you could go for a year or two younger or a higher spec.

HJ's answers are brief but he's right those diesels would be a very good practical choice.

I'd check out various Japanese petrols, Avensis, Mazda 6, Accord and the ubiquitous Mondeo for space, driveability, toys, value and easy to get serviced and repaired inexpensively Doesn't meet your prestige badge requirmeents though so maybe a much older 3 series BMW petrol over any similar aged Audi petrol.

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 15:17

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

I know you want a diesel but with the low'ish mileage you do a petrol will be less risky than a high mileage diesel and an equivalent petrol will be less money so you could go for a year or two younger or a higher spec.

HJ's answers are brief but he's right those diesels would be a very good practical choice.

I'd check out various Japanese petrols, Avensis, Mazda 6, Accord and the ubiquitous Mondeo for space, driveability, toys, value and easy to get serviced and repaired inexpensively Doesn't meet your prestige badge requirmeents though so maybe a much older 3 series BMW petrol over any similar aged Audi petrol.

Thanks for the advice, maybe I will look for a petrol model if you think it would be more practical...

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 15:13

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

Thanks for the advice, it sounds like the Kia is a great car...

What is wrong with the answer is neither of the cars recommended were in the list of cars I asked about... lol

It's like if someone asked you "Heads or Tails"?...

You wouldn't answer Kia, or Blue, or Left would you?

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 12:45

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - RT

Which 6K family diesel estate car is best out of 407, Passat, Mondeo, BMW 3 and 5 series, Merc C class..Volvo V50 Mazda 6, Audi A4 and A6 please?

Best for what ? Try giving some information on your needs.

My two-pennyworth - whichever is in best condition at that price.

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 15:22

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

Which 6K family diesel estate car is best out of 407, Passat, Mondeo, BMW 3 and 5 series, Merc C class..Volvo V50 Mazda 6, Audi A4 and A6 please?

Best for what ? Try giving some information on your needs.

My two-pennyworth - whichever is in best condition at that price.

I guess you never read my question?

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 15:27

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - RT

Which 6K family diesel estate car is best out of 407, Passat, Mondeo, BMW 3 and 5 series, Merc C class..Volvo V50 Mazda 6, Audi A4 and A6 please?

Best for what ? Try giving some information on your needs.

My two-pennyworth - whichever is in best condition at that price.

I guess you never read my question?

Yes - I read the question, it's in big bold text - it's too vaguely worded to answer by naming a brand/model.

I tried to make a sensible suggestion - if you don't want it that's fine but don't criticise it!

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 20:06

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - daveyjp

If I wanted a comfy seat it would be the Volvo, if I wanted with a very nice interior Merc or A6, if I wanted something I know any mechanic would probably have a good go at fixing and it will be cheap for parts the Mondeo.

Chances are the Mondeo will get you most for your budget, but when I drove the mk IV you can tell Ford skimp on sound deadening on diesels.

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 11:13

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

If I wanted a comfy seat it would be the Volvo, if I wanted with a very nice interior Merc or A6, if I wanted something I know any mechanic would probably have a good go at fixing and it will be cheap for parts the Mondeo. Chances are the Mondeo will get you most for your budget, but when I drove the mk IV you can tell Ford skimp on sound deadening on diesels.

Thanks for the advice Bud....

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 11:09

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

Which 6K family diesel estate car is best out of 407, Passat, Mondeo, BMW 3 and 5 series, Merc C class..Volvo V50 Mazda 6, Audi A4 and A6 please?

Best for what ? Try giving some information on your needs.

My two-pennyworth - whichever is in best condition at that price.

I guess you never read my question?

Yes - I read the question, it's in big bold text - it's too vaguely worded to answer by naming a brand/model.

I tried to make a sensible suggestion - if you don't want it that's fine but don't criticise it!

The writing you see in bold is just the header...

read the actual post,

Hello we are looking to buy a Family Diesel Estate car for £6000. We want it to last us for 5 years and we want it to be a pleasure to drive and easy on the eye. We are not rich people so reliability, practicality, economy, etc, (all the boring stuff) is very important to us... We do want (or would like) bells and whistles, kerb appeal, prestige, and toys too, All the things you get with the top end of the range cars, so my question really is; Is it better to go for a slightly older BMW, Merc, Audi, VW with more miles on it, or a newer lower mileage 407, Mazda 6, Mondeo, etcetera? It's the same old thing that we want our cake and eat it. Obviously something has to give, and we wondered what do you think is the way to go please? Also what sort of mileage is too much for each car in the group for us to be searching for? I use Autotrader and I have the search filter mileage set to under 80K. Is that too high for a car I want to have relatively cheap motoring out of for 5 years. We do between £20 and £40 a week in Diesel in our 406 at 40 MPG so I guess that's between 5K and 10K miles per year... Thanks for your help...

Edited by Just J on 26/06/2013 at 11:11

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 21:12

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Cyd

Well, I'm going to risk your wrath by suggesting something not on your list: Saab 9-3 Wagon.

I have an Aero and wrote about it here:
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=99578

It really is a lovely car. Very easy drive. Comfortable (despite the sports suspension) and roomy and quiet.

Driving sensibly I can get 32 knocking about and 38 on the m-way at 75. I imagine one of the less powerful petrol versions would be better still.

Also probably your last chance to try a Saab. Your budget should get you a 2006 or 2007 pre facelift model. Different trim levels come with different stuff, but I love the twin zone aircon, the zenon headlights and the seat heaters (essential on all leather).

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 22:10

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - John Boy

In my opinion, HJ's writing generally is admirably precise. In this case, his reply was brief to the extreme, but who can blame him - his volume of mail must be very large. He was merely suggesting two vehicles which he thinks are a better option than any of those in the OP's list.

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 22:32

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - gordonbennet

HJ suggested what cars he thought would suit what you asked, he didn't include any of your shortlist, i know what i'd assume from that.

PS...you ever written on a ballot paper ''none of the above''?

Edited by gordonbennet on 25/06/2013 at 22:33

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 11:33

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

HJ suggested what cars he thought would suit what you asked, he didn't include any of your shortlist, i know what i'd assume from that.

PS...you ever written on a ballot paper ''none of the above''?

Yes I have written that on a bllot paper, but HJ didn't so how is that relevant?

I don't want to just make assumptions because my assumption would probably be flawed. Information and advice is what I am after here...

Thanks for your reply though...

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 11:29

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

In my opinion, HJ's writing generally is admirably precise. In this case, his reply was brief to the extreme, but who can blame him - his volume of mail must be very large. He was merely suggesting two vehicles which he thinks are a better option than any of those in the OP's list.

Yes I would generally agree with what you said here. It would have been nice to have some sort of explanation though...

Something like, "For that budget I wouldn't recommend any of the cars you listed, but X or Y would both be a good choice"...

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 11:24

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

Well, I'm going to risk your wrath by suggesting something not on your list: Saab 9-3 Wagon.

I have an Aero and wrote about it here:
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=99578

It really is a lovely car. Very easy drive. Comfortable (despite the sports suspension) and roomy and quiet.

Driving sensibly I can get 32 knocking about and 38 on the m-way at 75. I imagine one of the less powerful petrol versions would be better still.

Also probably your last chance to try a Saab. Your budget should get you a 2006 or 2007 pre facelift model. Different trim levels come with different stuff, but I love the twin zone aircon, the zenon headlights and the seat heaters (essential on all leather).

LOL, sorry if I came over like that...

I hadn't looked at Saabs, but that is a brand I actually like. Thanks very much for your advice...

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 22:57

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - nailit

I understand the answer to the OP question is fine, since you wrote;

"or a newer lower mileage 407, Mazda 6, Mondeo, etcetera?"

the 'etcetera' meaning all similar cars!

Be gentle as this is my first post :-)

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 11:40

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

I understand the answer to the OP question is fine, since you wrote;

"or a newer lower mileage 407, Mazda 6, Mondeo, etcetera?"

the 'etcetera' meaning all similar cars!

Be gentle as this is my first post :-)

Yes you are quite right, that is fair comment...

The etcetera could have been misinterpreted, maybe I souldn't have written that...

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Tue 25 Jun 2013 23:02

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Avant

The point of suggesting the Hyundai and the Kia is that they may get you nearer to what you want (per the rest of your initial post) for £6,000.

In your position I'd go for petrol rather than diesel unless you can get a diesel of similar age for the same money. As well as petrol Kias and Hyundais, also consider the Skoda Octavia (cheaper than a Passat but mechanically the same), Ford Focus or Mondeo, Toyota Avensis or Mazda 6 (avoid diesel Mazdas).

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 11:49

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

The point of suggesting the Hyundai and the Kia is that they may get you nearer to what you want (per the rest of your initial post) for £6,000.

In your position I'd go for petrol rather than diesel unless you can get a diesel of similar age for the same money. As well as petrol Kias and Hyundais, also consider the Skoda Octavia (cheaper than a Passat but mechanically the same), Ford Focus or Mondeo, Toyota Avensis or Mazda 6 (avoid diesel Mazdas).

Thanks for the advice Bud...

Could anyone explain why I should perhaps choose a petrol car over a diesel car please?

I do approx 7500 miles a year so in terms of fuel price over 5 years that is a consideration. Is the risk of a diesel breaking down greater than the saving on MPG?

Thanks for any help...

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 12:06

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - skidpan

Could anyone explain why I should perhaps choose a petrol car over a diesel car please?

I do approx 7500 miles a year so in terms of fuel price over 5 years that is a consideration. Is the risk of a diesel breaking down greater than the saving on MPG?

Thanks for any help...

In my opinion there is no simple rule, it varies from car to car.

I have just traded a BMW 118D after owning it for 5 trouble free years and 37000 miles. My total saving over the ownership period compared to the equivalent petrol (118i) was about £2500 which includes not only fuel but saving in VED and depreciation, it even includes the extra I paid initially. The equivalent petrol in the range was a poor drive, the 118D was great with loads of torque for overtaking.

I have just replaced it with a petrol simply because on the car I decided to buy the economics of the similarly powerful diesel did not add up over the 5000 miles a year I expect to do in the future. I estimated the break even mileage as being well over 50000 even allowing for better residuals on the diesel, thats 10 years at my expected annual mileage.

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 12:17

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

In my opinion there is no simple rule, it varies from car to car.

I have just traded a BMW 118D after owning it for 5 trouble free years and 37000 miles. My total saving over the ownership period compared to the equivalent petrol (118i) was about £2500 which includes not only fuel but saving in VED and depreciation, it even includes the extra I paid initially. The equivalent petrol in the range was a poor drive, the 118D was great with loads of torque for overtaking.

I have just replaced it with a petrol simply because on the car I decided to buy the economics of the similarly powerful diesel did not add up over the 5000 miles a year I expect to do in the future. I estimated the break even mileage as being well over 50000 even allowing for better residuals on the diesel, thats 10 years at my expected annual mileage.

Thanks for the reply Bud,

Could you tell me the variables you use to work out the numbers please?

Also are you talking about new cars or used cars?

I am trying to weigh up the difference for a second hand used car. Whatever I buy will have a full service history and up to 80K on it as I only have around £6K to spend...

Thanks very much for any help...

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 14:00

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - skidpan

New or used it makes no difference. The fuel cost for petrol or diesel is calculated by simple maths as is the annual VED cost. Forcasting depreciation is difficult so best forgotten.

Buying a car for £6k with upto 80,000 miles on it is a lottery. You simply cannot tell if it will be reliable or not.

For £6k you should get a Kia Ceed SW CRDi as suggested by Honest John and others on a 58 plate with approx 50,0000 miles on it. Get the 1.6 and it will have no DPF or DMF to worry about and if its done less than 100,000 miles with a full service history you will still have 2 years of the manufacturers warranty left.

A petrol 1.6 Ceed SW with the same mileage should be about £1000 less but it will be a bit of a slug.

Edited by skidpan on 26/06/2013 at 14:03

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 17:35

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

New or used it makes no difference. The fuel cost for petrol or diesel is calculated by simple maths as is the annual VED cost. Forcasting depreciation is difficult so best forgotten.

Buying a car for £6k with upto 80,000 miles on it is a lottery. You simply cannot tell if it will be reliable or not.

For £6k you should get a Kia Ceed SW CRDi as suggested by Honest John and others on a 58 plate with approx 50,0000 miles on it. Get the 1.6 and it will have no DPF or DMF to worry about and if its done less than 100,000 miles with a full service history you will still have 2 years of the manufacturers warranty left.

A petrol 1.6 Ceed SW with the same mileage should be about £1000 less but it will be a bit of a slug.

Thanks for your help...

I appreciate that...

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 21:30

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Cyd

Is the risk of a diesel breaking down greater than the saving on MPG?

Exactly!

If you're buying an older car and it is a diesel with any one or more of DPF, DMF & EGR, a breakdown of one of these systems could cost you any savings you made in fuel and more. Not to mention the inconvenience and hassle.

Also if you do short runs, be aware that diesels take longer to warm up than petrols (generally) which may be a comfort factor in the winter. It also means a petrol gets to 'normal' economy quicker.

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Wed 26 Jun 2013 21:33

A4, V50, C Class, A6, Mazda 6, Passat, BMW 3 and 5 - Does HJ or Anyone even read the questions? - Just J

Is the risk of a diesel breaking down greater than the saving on MPG?

Exactly!

If you're buying an older car and it is a diesel with any one or more of DPF, DMF & EGR, a breakdown of one of these systems could cost you any savings you made in fuel and more. Not to mention the inconvenience and hassle.

Also if you do short runs, be aware that diesels take longer to warm up than petrols (generally) which may be a comfort factor in the winter. It also means a petrol gets to 'normal' economy quicker.

Thanks for the advice Bud...

I would rather have a petrol car for a number of reasons, smell, cold start, etc...

If the annual costs are similar for me then I am open to either...

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