Pull,
Listen to Peter!
Have a watch here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiZhPIve43Y
I've seen the video, but it doesn't explain my query . When turning the track rod the movement is taken up on the rack which effects the other side, so how can the side you are working on move? Put it another way if I'm unwinding the rod, I'm pushing the rack along so how does it effect the side I'm working on? Surely only if the steering wheel is locked would the wheel I'm working on move.
|
|
|
|
An excellent YouTube for the uninitiated.
Pullgees... I see what's worrying you. If you only adjust one side, then the steering wheel will be over to one side as you drive in a straight line. You have to adjust both sides equally in order to keep the steering wheel straight.
Somewhere in this cluttered house is my tracking gauge from the old Mini days - I think it may have been a 'Paddy Hopkirk' one. It was so simple to use, consisting of two bars which fastened to the outside of each front wheel with a short luggage elastic. Each bar had a slot front and rear into which a steel tape measure could be run under the car from one wheel to the other.
If the front tape gave a shorter reading than the rear tape, then the wheels were toed-in by that amount.
If the front tape gave a longer reading than the rear tape, then the wheels were toed-out by that amount.
We had to use such things on the old Minis because ball-joints and track-rod ends always seemed to be wearing out and shimming the ball joints became an obsessive compulsion. I've known of lads who would take a shim down on an oilstone to get it ''just right'.
If such a tracking gauge is still being manufactured, then it should work on a Mk4 Fiesta. A lot of modern cars have so much 'stuff' underneath them that the tape measures wouldn't have a clear path from one side to the other.
|
|
I use a couple of ladders on wheel ramps. I position the ramps against the front wheels and rest the aluminium ladders on them, leaning against the wheels with most of the ladder in front of the car. I then measure the gap between the ladders immediately in front of the car and at the far end of the ladders. A little simple maths tells me if I've got toe-in or out. Moving everything and re-checking a couple of times ensures reasonable accuracy.
|
|
Tom.. That's the exact principle of the 'Paddy Hopkirk' tracking gauge! Your solution is so practical! I'm quite impressed by that - what do they call it - lateral thinking? Could have done that with my ladders if I hadn't lent them to a neighbour who 'couldn't remember what he'd done with them'. He was an alcoholic and he's dead now, so mustn't dwell on that.
|
|
>>he's dead now
That's how I ended up with an electric mower and no lead. I got the mower back, but the lead......................
I bought a new mower with a different connector, that doesn't fit my strimmer.
If anyone can tell me where to buy an adaptor, I'd be grateful.
One of these, but I don't need another lead: tinyurl.com/chneot8
|
|
Ah! Your mower lead - IP44 plug and socket - Ingress Protection rating! Eee, heck, I've learnt something new. Never too old, eh?
Doubt if you'll get any kind of adaptor much cheaper than just buying a replacement lead, as I can't see anyone legally making a water-resistant plug which then converts to a domestic type. Perhaps you could get just a plug and socket arrangement from the likes of Screwfix, RS components, Toolstation, or similar and modify an extension lead?
|
|
|
|
Pullgees... I see what's worrying you. If you only adjust one side, then the steering wheel will be over to one side as you drive in a straight line. You have to adjust both sides equally in order to keep the steering wheel straight.
Also if you don't lock the steering wheel will it be over to one side, I now realize that. Sometimes only one side needs tweaking.
And many of these tyre fitters don't bother to lock the wheel hence why your tracking might be right but the steering wheel will not be centred and also the cambers when turning won't be right either
i remember that gauge you mentioned.
|
|
Back in the days of the Paddy Hopkirk tracking gauge, cars didn't have steering lock! People were more honest in those days!
No, you need the wheel to move freely so that you can see that you are keeping the wheel correctly aligned as you adjust first one side (which mis-alignes the steering wheel whether it's locked or not) then the other side to bring the steering wheel back straight.
Remember that if you stop with the wheels in a 'dead-ahead' position and shorten the track rod on the driver's side, then the driver's side wheel will be pointing outward compared to the near-side wheel. If you get back in and drive the car forward, then the steering wheel will have to turn slightly to the left in order to bring the car into the 'dead-ahead' position. You will have given the wheels a little more toe-out, but because you've only done it one one side, the steering wheel then is mis-aligned in the 'dead-ahead' position.
|
|
>>Remember that if you stop with the wheels in a 'dead-ahead' position and shorten the track rod on the driver's side, then the driver's side wheel will be pointing outward compared to the near-side wheel.
Only if the steering arm is behind the pivot point. Many older cars had the steering arms in front.
|
|
Yes, the steering arm can be in front of the wheel... I was trying to keep it simple and refer to it as per the Fiesta.
Yes, again, adjusting the tracking cannot alter the camber angle.
|
Yes, again, adjusting the tracking cannot alter the camber angle.
The tracking cannot effect the camber, but the steering wheel if off centre can alter the correct cambers when turning. that's because the camber changes as the wheels turn
|
|
>>the steering wheel if off centre can alter the correct cambers when turning.
I don't see that either!
|
|
|
|
And I don't see it, either! If the steering wheel was to be over to one side when driving straight ahead, then, if it wasn't for the air-bag, you could take the wheel off and put it back straight on it's splines... which is the quick fix we used to do on a Mini. (Which of course, was made before air-bags and steering locks were invented). Just means that the the toothed part of the rack is slightly off-centre, but if the tracking is correct, what the heck?
|
|
|
|
|
No, you need the wheel to move freely so that you can see that you are keeping the wheel correctly aligned as you adjust first one side (which mis-alignes the steering wheel whether it's locked or not) then the other side to bring the steering wheel back straight.
Why is it then that some garages do lock the steering and in fact there is a special tool for doing this? Although with steering lock on I don't see the need.
www.amazon.com/OTC-4546-Stinger-Steering-Depressor...0
God knows how it works
|
No, you need the wheel to move freely so that you can see that you are keeping the wheel correctly aligned as you adjust first one side (which mis-alignes the steering wheel whether it's locked or not) then the other side to bring the steering wheel back straight.
Why is it then that some garages do lock the steering and in fact there is a special tool for doing this? Although with steering lock on I don't see the need.
The steering wheel is locked in the straight ahead position, the alignment checked, and the required adjustment is made half on each trackrod (so if 1 degree needed, 1/2 degree each side.) This means the steering wheel will be correct as you drive in a straight line,, not off to one side. On some cars there is a hole to insert a dowel to keep the steering rack centralised, which has the same effect as locking the wheel and ensures equal lock each way.
Edited by galileo on 15/05/2013 at 19:07
|
|
|
|
No, no, no, that's just to hold the steering in the dead-ahead position whilst checking the tracking. Adjusting the tracking lengthens or shortens the track rod on first one side - which, if that's the only side adjusted, will then cause the steering wheel to be off-centre when driving in a straight line. That's why you need to adjust the other side equally to bring the steering wheel back straight!
|
No, no, no, that's just to hold the steering in the dead-ahead position whilst checking the tracking. Adjusting the tracking lengthens or shortens the track rod on first one side - which, if that's the only side adjusted, will then cause the steering wheel to be off-centre when driving in a straight line. That's why you need to adjust the other side equally to bring the steering wheel back straight!
Why do they keep it on or keep the dowel in when they start making the adjustments then?
|
No, no, no, that's just to hold the steering in the dead-ahead position whilst checking the tracking. Adjusting the tracking lengthens or shortens the track rod on first one side - which, if that's the only side adjusted, will then cause the steering wheel to be off-centre when driving in a straight line. That's why you need to adjust the other side equally to bring the steering wheel back straight!
Why do they keep it on or keep the dowel in when they start making the adjustments then?
Read my post above carefully, I can't explain any more clearly, I'm afraid.
|
No, no, no, that's just to hold the steering in the dead-ahead position whilst checking the tracking. Adjusting the tracking lengthens or shortens the track rod on first one side - which, if that's the only side adjusted, will then cause the steering wheel to be off-centre when driving in a straight line. That's why you need to adjust the other side equally to bring the steering wheel back straight!
Why do they keep it on or keep the dowel in when they start making the adjustments then?
Read my post above carefully, I can't explain any more clearly, I'm afraid.
I was querying another poster's comment not you.
|
|
|
|
|
You may as well keep the dowel in whilst adjusting the tracking as, if you're doing it on a garage ramp, you'd only have to put it back in when checking it again! Still doesn't change the fact that you have to adjust both sides equally in order to keep the steering wheel straight!
It would be a simple job to check and adjust the tracking yourself on any car if only it was easy to stick your arm under and get at the track-rod end with a spanner, and if it was easy to measure the difference between the distance between the backs of the front tyres and the fronts of the front tyres. I keep banging on about the old Mini, but that was so easy, And being easy to do on the Mini, it was easy to understand! The older Fiesta was also quite simple, and so, if you know what the correct tracking should be - most likely somewhere between one sixteenth to three sixteenths of an inch toed-in (don't ask me what that is in new money, 'cos I don't know and don't understand it!) whereas with the old Mini and it's rubber suspension, it was three-sixteenths of an inch toed-out. I set all my Minis to that and had no problems.
Just have a go at it. If you think something should work, try it. If it doesn't work, then you've learnt something. Just like I've learnt that you can't drill out a stuck pinch-bolt in situ! Cost me a hundred quid at Oily Mick's garage for him to take the whole strut and wishbone out and make a proper jobof it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
>>and also the cambers when turning won't be right either
I don't see that.
|
|
I'm glad no-one's mentioned the castor angle!
|
|
Yes I have learned quite a lot since posuting here and experimenting. Yes to keep the steering wheel straight you have to adjust an equal amount each side, If only one side is done , then in order to drive dead ahead the steering wheel will be off centre. But i 'm happier locking the steering wheel when adjusting as then I know there will be no track movement to confuse things.
You mention caster. I have never been able to prevent the car drifting to the left and I've had five years. I know it's not brakes tyres tracking suspention parts as all these thing have been changed over that period. So it's probably been kerbed at some stage and maybe I've got 'set back' which would effect the caster?..
|
Yes I have learned quite a lot since posuting here and experimenting. Yes to keep the steering wheel straight you have to adjust an equal amount each side, If only one side is done , then in order to drive dead ahead the steering wheel will be off centre. But i 'm happier locking the steering wheel when adjusting as then I know there will be no track movement to confuse things.
You mention caster. I have never been able to prevent the car drifting to the left and I've had five years. I know it's not brakes tyres tracking suspention parts as all these thing have been changed over that period. So it's probably been kerbed at some stage and maybe I've got 'set back' which would effect the caster?..
Grr edit buttons gone
I mean't rack movement not track movement.
|
|
All cars tend to pull to the left in the UK, it's due to the camber of the road and nothing to do with your castor angles.
We used to counteract it by swapping the front wheels from one side to the other, but I'm not sure that works nowadays with the deeply dished wheels and 'negative offset steering geometry'.
|
|
What was wrong with the tracking before you stated this and how are you going to measure the tracking to ensure you have got it right. Regards Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
