Hi,
Thanks to everyone for the advice and replies.
It seems like the majority of you think that I would be wise not to take this matter any further as I'd probably lose if taken to court etc.
A couple of points to add:
1. I did take it for a very short test drive, not at my chosing but the seller was hurrying me as he had to "go somewhere"
2. I can't prove that he's lying, but do have a strong hunch.
3. In regards to Mark (above), the guy would surely notice if after driving a car for 18 months a fault suddenly occured that would cause a turbo to stop working - unless he was completly ignorant! I would estimate that the torque of the vehicle was almost cut in half by this fault, it wasn't just like an indicator not working.
4. I have the VW report from the ECU stating the problem, would this not help?
The way I see it is that I've already lost £280, whats an extra £30 to get it to Small Claims on the chance that I COULD win..?
Thanks,
James
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It seems like the majority of you think that I would be wise not to take this matter any further as I'd probably lose if taken to court etc.
I think that's what everybody said. Including HJ and MM who really know what they're on about.
1. I did take it for a very short test drive, not at my chosing but the seller was hurrying me as he had to "go somewhere"
Regardless, it's your fault you didn't test it properly.
2. I can't prove that he's lying
So there us no court case.
3. In regards to Mark (above), the guy would surely notice if after driving a car for 18 months a fault suddenly occured that would cause a turbo to stop working - unless he was completly ignorant!
Lots of people are ignorant, and you didn't notice the fault in 30-40 miles!
4. I have the VW report from the ECU stating the problem, would this not help?
No, because they don't say how long the fault had been there, even if it did you have no proof the seller knew the fault. The dealers didn't even know so how could he?
The way I see it is that I've already lost £280, whats an extra £30 to get it to Small Claims on the chance that I COULD win..?
Not a great deal, but you should know when to quit, it's not good for your blood pressure. I am sure you have better thinkgs to do with your time than waste it.
Caveat emptor is fact when you buy privately. I am almost sure (others will confirm or shoot me down) that even if the private seller knew of the fault, you have no comeback.
If, however, he was a private trader, you have hope. I don't think you have answered this question.
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No comeback, unless asked about any faults and he said there were none, and you can prove that he *did* know about it, not even should have known.
I agree, for the sake of £280 on a car you probably saved a grand on as against buying from the dealer, drop it. The seller probably thought he was getting rid of a complete dog and would be amazed to know that the fault only cost £280 to fix - if he used the money to buy another one, he's much worse off than you are.
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Jimmyb, assumiregardless if this is a private sale or not, should you really be buying a top marque car if you are worried about spending 280 quid. if you are that aggrieved by this, then I would advise you in future to pay top dollar and buy from a reputable dealer, after all you didnt notice it on the test drive.
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"..it's not good for your blood pressure"
Absolutely! The bottom line, JimmyB, is: would you pay up if the situation was reversed? Really...?
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when buying a second hand car:
I ALWAYS assume:
1. the seller is lying to some extent
2. I will have to spend up to £500 to get it as I want it.
Having read the thread you admit:
you did not test drive the car for any distance.
you (presumably) expected it to be perfect.
All I can say is: this is the real world (sorry for being so brutal).
If he's a dealer , go for him. If a private seller, you have been 1. naive 2. not very thorough buying and 3. a small claims court will treat you so and charge you costs and you will have wasted everyone's time and your money.
madf
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(assuming he isn't a home-trader masquerading as a private seller):
Q. Why did you buy privately rather than from a dealer?
A. Because it's cheaper.
Q. Why is this?
A. Because you don't get a warranty or any after sales service - you need to check the car out thoroughly - perhaps get it inspected if spending a lot of money.
Q. So there's not much point complaining about having to spend an extra £280 then?
A. No!
:-)
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Thanks again for everyone\'s replies.
Not being one to let a matter lie, I\'ve spoken to Citizen\'s Advice who seem to think that I may have a case.
I agree that its only £280 not a few grand, but honestly, if this problem happened to any of you, would you HONESTLY let it go without some sort of fight??
[snip] you don\'t want to do that, do you really ? Because if people start insulting each other, I start deleting threads. Probably we should forget that and not do it again ? M.
Still not sure, could be worth a pop or I could just forget about it..
Frustrated :(
James
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In regards to Andy's harsh comments, it was a 10 minute test drive in 30-40mph zones you pleb, not 40 MILES!!
That's not very helpful either... If you are going to insult people who are offering advice, then don't be surprised if they (and others) don't offer it again.
The point I think Andy was trying to make was that you didn't test the vehicle sufficiently, regardless of what excuse the vendor gave. You always have a choice in these situations and that includes not buying the car if you can't test it sufficiently to your own satisfaction.
As I stated in my previous post I got stung for about £750 repairs on a car worth about 3k. It was my own fault and I didn't seek redress from the vendor.
Jonathan
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I agree that you have a case, in theory.
In practice, you have a great deal to prove. The Sale of Goods Act 1979 is the statute governing this area, but between private individuals (i.e., assuming the other partner is not a dealer) you have to prove
s 13 Sale by description.
(1) Where there is a contract for the sale of goods by description, there is an implied term that the goods will correspond with the description.
Well, okay, but £280 to make perfect (i.e., about 3% of cost to make perfect) is probably within excellent/very good condition
There is no implied term under s.15 of SOGA of satisfactory quality unless the sale is in the course of the business.
Under s.15A, there is no implied right to reject if the breach of an implied term is so slight that it would be unreasonale - £280 on about £9k would almost certainly fall into this category.
Similarly, you're not likely to prove a misrepresentation (innocent or otherwise) under the Misrepresentation Act 1967, which is your other hope.
I would find it very hard to believe that you could prove your case on the balance of probabilities, which is what you need to do - given that you're up against a private seller. I really would let this one lie.
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JimmyB, get a grip - you've had a bill of £280 for a car you've paid several thousand for - if that's the only thing wrong with it, then i don't think you've got much to complain about!
I recently bought a car privately (a Lotus Elan), which, in the best Lotus tradition broke down on the way home! A new ECU later, all was well. Looking on a Lotus message board a few days later, i saw a message from the previous owner, stating that his ECU had gone, and where could he get a cheap one, so he obviously knew of the problem before I bought it! I was not that impressed, but the cost of a new ECU was small compared to the cost of the car. Also, if I had bought the car from a dealer, I would have paid anywhere between £500 and £1500 more, just for the privelidge of the dealer paying £250 to fix the ECU. I would not have considered going back to the seller, as I expect he would, quite rightly, have told me to s** off.
A long winded story, but the moral is that if you are not prepared to accept that buying a car privately contains an element of risk, WHICH YOU ARE TAKING BECAUSE OF THE OFTEN CONSIDERABLE COST SAVING, then you would be best advised to toddle off to a main dealer and pay the full price. It's idiots like you who put people off selling cars privately, and so have to trade them in for a pittance just to avoid the potential hassle.
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"..I could just forget about it.."
I should.
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