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Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - johnson1983-2009

Hi all, after a bit of advice for winning a great battle against my petulent zafira. It has developed a cylinder 4 misfire. a compression test showed zero pressure in this cylinder, so thinking maybe a stuck inlet valve. Tried putting through Wynns Combustion cleaner to see if that would help incase of carbon buildup. No luck! It had an engine flush, oil change and filters changed 6 weeks ago just before mot. everything fine. 2 days after mot, engine light came on for a couple of days but then disappeared so left it. Driving fine until one week ago when i drove on a frosty morning. the handbarke had frozen on so i took it down the ringroad to build up heat to release it, get up a speed and warning lights come on and the car starts misfiring. When i changed the oil i used 10w40 which should be fine, but 5w30 is the recommended viscosity. Would another engine flush and oil change with recommended oil maybe help? I'm trying to cover all the bases and try smaller solutions before i strip the head down and check the valves. Has anybody had this happen to them? Any suggestions?

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - Collos25

A valve that is one position would cause all sorts of problems and noises it is quite possible to have burnt out valve but it still moves in tune with the camshaft.The only way to see what is exactly wrong is to remove the head and have a look.

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - injection doc
Using 10.40 will cause the valves lifters to jack up , holding the valves of their seats, most likely putting the car under load to build up some heat has burnt a valve out !

The only way to remove carbon from valves with the engine is running is to run a misty spray of water through the inlet manifold for several hours. This actually washes carbon away and releases the carbon around valve stems.

When I used to get cars in suffering with really sticky valves we used t o plum in couple of windscreen washer bags of water with some fish tank pipe to a vacuum pipe with a tap to restrict the water to just a misty spray, I actually did countless cars this way for over 20 years.

The other method I used was walnut husk and olive stone in a sand blaster and used to remove the manifolds and camshafts and blast the ports. Mostly used this method to remove the carbon build up on an inlet valve that used t o absorb fuel spray from an injector on initial throttle opening causing severe hesitation.
Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - Collos25

Using 10.40 will cause the valves lifters to jack up , holding the valves of their seats, most likely putting the car under load to build up some heat has burnt a valve out !

Your so wrong.

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - injection doc

Oh really please explain ?

Seen plenty do it with the wrong oil in do exactly that ! and there are quite a few cars out there that with the wrong grade of oil will start & stop due to lifetrs jacking up when the engines are cold.

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - johnson1983-2009

Thanks for the advice fellas. Would doing the water mist trick be better than a combustion cleaner? we tried the cleaner and it didnt make a bit of difference. Would water really do better? Injection Doc, how do i do what you suggest? I am at my wits end with this thing.

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - injection doc

you would really need to confirm whether a valve has burnt out ! if a valve cant seat properly or quickly enough they will burn out very quickly indeed.

a cylinder leakage test using compressed air is the quick method of confirming if a valve has burnt out. If a valve is burnt out then its too late for the water trick..

Sticky valves or incorrect oil grades can cause lifters to hold the valves of there seats although if the cars left standing the lifters do retract on their own. so on each initiall start up I would expect it to start up without a misfire. I wouldnt of expected in this day and age for an inlet or exhaust valve to of totally stuck in the guide. There is a lot of design that goes inot the base circle of the cam lobe which should allow the lifters to work exactly as they should and relief valves in the head to reduce excess pressure but its not an exact science.

I used to repair fleets of Vauxhall cars in there hundereds and did experince considereable amount of burnt out valves and cracked valve seats and numerous cracked heads.

The water trick needs a fine mist of water being drawn into the inlet manifold with the engine running for some hours. Consideration has to be given too the design of the inlet manifold , if it has deep chambers water could build up and you could hydraulic the engine if you were to rev it up and draw water in so this all has to be considered.

A large water resovoir with a small vacum pipe going to the inlet manifold will work but you must use a fish tank clamp to compress pipe almost flat to ensure a very small amount of water is drawn up the pipe. Driving on very light throttle helps draw the water up , to give you an idea some very bad cars that were almost undriveable would take several gallons of water and a motorway crusie at about 50-60 for 200 miles used to work a treat.

Its a bit like when a headgasket goes and water gets in the cylinder and you find its all washed clean and the carbons gone.

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - johnson1983-2009

to be honest, when i do start it, it takes a few seconds for the misfire to become apparant. It's almost like a tease! its only misfiring on the one cylinder, it just seemed to much coincidence that it started misfiring a short while after an oil change and during really cold weather. Im not wasting more money on this thing but got nothing to lose trying ur suggestion. is there away of doing ur suggestion without driving the car? add the water while its ticking over on the drive.?

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - Cyd

Trying to cut your motoring costs by skimping on engine oil is a false economy. These engines are specified for 5/30 or 0/30 (the latter in the case of my B207R). Using [cheaper] 10/40 could cause a variety of problems, some of which may not show for a few 000s miles. I'm not going to go into a dissertation about that here, but suffice to say you should change the oil for the correct grade asap.

Specificaly, I agree with inj that the wrong oil could cause the lifters to jack up. It doesn't surprise me that this may have only happened on one.

Did your compression test tell you if the rings were off or the valves (you don't say)? Or are you assuming valves?

If you want to look inside at the valves you could remove the manifolds and use an endoscope - something like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190751434453?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_4041wt_956

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - injection doc

I also agree with Cyd(p)

Change the oil for the correct grade , its a must. if the misfire goes then brilliant.

you say it doesnt misfire straight away, so what did the compression test show ? an open EGR valve can make em misfire on 1 cylinder and coil packs and ECu's are notorious on these engines so you must start with the oil.

If it fixes it then you could try my water trick but we are talking just a fine mist and continous whilst running. You need to read my info above in detail

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - Collos25

You obviously do not no the origin of the engine or understand motor oil .

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - johnson1983-2009

HI, this model engine doesnt have an egr valve. The oil wasnt any cheaper than the recommended oil. The website i reserved it from said it was the oil for the car. The misfire occurs after 5 - 10 seconds and stays. The compression test showed zero in the no 4 cylinder. Tried spare coil pack, new plugs and the ecu is fine.

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - injection doc

Collos25

"You obviously do not no the origin of the engine or understand motor oil" no as in no should be spelt "know" I know that much !

Then please explain, having worked for vauxhall for years, and been in the trade for over 35 years and spent time at Abingdon research centre I'm all ears !

please tell me more that i'm missing & then I will list all the cars that if you put 10/40 or 15/40 in when they are designed for 5/30 they suffer with a misfire when cold or will even go to the extent of completely decompressing the engine if they are reved up cold with the wrong oil in. You can quote me specifications all day long but it never beats experince.

I have seen boffins challenge me before with their graphs and million pound testing rigs telling me something should work in theory but in practice its very different & remeber an engineer tearing up all his print outs when a component they designed should of worked but in practice it didnt ! at all ! end of.

I'm always gratefull to people in other industries that seem to know best , it used to be BT engineers or builders down the pub

Edited by injection doc on 15/04/2013 at 21:28

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - Cyd

Inj,

it would seem there is conflicting information in the OP. As well as a lack of information about how the OP came to the concluson it is valve trouble.

I'm treating Cols remarks with the contempt deserved and ignoring them.

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - Cyd

. When i changed the oil i used 10w40 which should be fine, but 5w30 is the recommended viscosity.

So which is it? Waht does the handbook say?

Reading the second half of that sentence I thought you had a Family II motor (designated B207 in the Saabs) and failed to spot that yours is a 2001 car which has the earlier engine. The Zafira didn't get FamII til 2005MY. The earlier motor is recommended for 10/40 according to opieoils. I would normally trust opie on these things.

So, scratch previous postings.

And repeat the earlier question: why do you think it's valve trouble and not rings? Lack of compression could be either. I would add oil to the cylinder and run the test again - no compression = valves, compression restored = rings.

Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - injection doc
Another point to consider is a broken valve spring ! If it starts ok then starts misfiring , and taking into account its been confirmed with a compression test it could well be valve spring failure.
Same thing happens where the lifters expand as the valve doesn't return quick enough and oil pressure takes over and lifts the valve of its seat.

Don't panick as springs can be replaced by many garages in situ without removing a head if this was the case.
Zafira 1.8 Elegance 2001 - zafira misfire due to stuck valve? - injection doc

If its not compression related you need to check the vacum pipes and breather pipes for leaks, also worth making sure the servo isnt leaking air causing the misfire.