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Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - IJF

Saw a similar previous post when researching this so thought I'd join up and pose this one.

This morning, my wife rear ended an old lady at the junction coming off the motorway. The old lady was looking quite confused before she pulled away when the lights changed then suddenly, for no reason pulled an emergency stop right in the middle of a boxed area on the roundabout where the road splits into three separate routes, seemingly confused and panicked by the road layout.

The old woman made no attempt to get out of the car, instead her daughter got out of the passenger seat and started going on about how my wife should have stopped. My wife went to the old woman to see how she was, usual claim of banging her head (so we can quite expect a 'whiplash' claim) but also disclosed that she was feeling unwell but also said that was unrelated to the accident. This, along with her not getting out of the car to assess any damage set alarm bells ringing as to whether she was actually fit to drive.

My wife also had a passenger who has been very objective and unbiased about the whole thing and is willing to put a statement in to describe this inexplicable emergency stop left my wife with nowhere to go except into her rear - any other direction would have had far worse consequences.

No doubt people will talk of stopping distances but I have heard of other cases where the 'hit' driver has been deemed to have caused the accident through stopping suddenly in this way and for the driver at the rear to stop in time would be unreasonable.

So, bottom-line question is, is there anything worth fighting on this one, be it on dangerous driving on the old womans part as she stopped in a boxed junction, her questionable health grounds or that my wife's passenger confirms that my wife was driving in a perfectly safe manner for standard and reasonable conditions and it was the inexplicable actions of the old woman that was the cause?

Thanks

Edited by IJF on 25/03/2013 at 13:52

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - Armitage Shanks {p}

Quick Summary - get photos and get 3rd party witness statements, if you can. Did the police attend the scene

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - IJF

Thanks for the reply: No police attendance but some photos of the two cars were taken. No witnesses outside of my wife's passenger.

Was thinking of using Google maps to show the position of the other car when it pulled the emergency stop - I presume that may assist the insurers?

Edited by IJF on 25/03/2013 at 14:04

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - Bromptonaut

I think you're going to find it hard to avoid 100% liability on this one. Running into back of somebody is normally product of insufficient space or insufficient attention.

Emergency stops are rarely expected and if the driver suddenly felt unwell, faint or whatever then stopping abruptly is not surprising. If she suddenly veered into your wife's path or was driving against medical advice you might get some contribution but difficult to see otherwise.

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - RT

I can see that the lady may have issues but I don't see why that mitigates the error of your wife in running into the back of her - you must always be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear - if you can't then you're driving too close.

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - IJF

Thanks all. Pretty much as I thought - she have to take this one on the chin, we'll see what the insurers say though after all, you wouldn't expect someone to suddenly stop in a boxed junction when the exit is clear and you're also be attentive to traffic that may already be on the roundabout coming from the right.

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - Gordon17

Could this be a staged "Crash for Cash"?

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - IJF

The thought of a staged crash had crossed my mind...how would you prove that though?

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - Armitage Shanks {p}

Hard to phrase this without offending some people! Were you in the Bradford area and were the other parties, regardless of where you were, of Caucasian appreance, or not?

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - IJF

Nope, nowwhere near. This was J8 of the M11 coming of the southbound track. A quick look at Google maps shows that the road splits into three just after coming onto the roundabout and the boxed area sits between the entrance to the roundabout and the split. It shows how easy it would be to hit someone if they stopped in the box for no reason as the driver behind would also be checking to the right.

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - tony g
No offence AS ,and very delicately put .

Can I just point out that the whole of the north , in particular the old textile towns ,Bolton ,bury ,Blackburn as well as bradford ,sorry cant think of any more proper b,s .Have suffered from this epidemic of fraudulent claims .
Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - Bromptonaut
No offence AS ,and very delicately put . Can I just point out that the whole of the north , in particular the old textile towns ,Bolton ,bury ,Blackburn as well as bradford ,sorry cant think of any more proper b,s .Have suffered from this epidemic of fraudulent claims .

It's a national trend Tony. In some places the perps are caucasians. In the worst example the deceased victim was Asian.

The pwerps were Polish.

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - craig-pd130

It's a national trend Tony. In some places the perps are caucasians. In the worst example the deceased victim was Asian.

The pwerps were Polish.

In fact a huge cash-for-crash ring was recently discovered and many people arrested. They all spoke a foreign language: Geordie.

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - Andrew-T

Any cameras on the roundabout?

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - IJF

Not sure about cameras - I presume the insurers will have records of where they are?

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - Armitage Shanks {p}

More likely the local Council or police. If there are cameras who services and monitors them?

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - RT

Do modern drivers think that the unexpected will never happen to them?

We've surely all been in circumstances where there's been plenty of time for 2 or more drivers to get out from a junction and where the first driver starts to go but then changes their mind - so the fact that this lady had no reason to stop and shouldn't have stopped simply doesn't remove the responsibility on following traffic to avoid her.

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - madf

I give elderly drivers - little ladies and men wearing hats or bald # - LOTS of space.

History has shwon they are likely to go the wrong way, realise it late.. and go the right way immediately - no signals, no mirror, nothing.

I treat them with great respect like a 25 meter gap or pass them if I can..

At roundabouts and junctions they are a real menace..

Edit

~ yes I am elderly as well :-)

Edited by madf on 25/03/2013 at 18:41

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - unthrottled

I give elderly drivers - little ladies and men wearing hats or bald # - LOTS of space.

My driving instructor told me that hats of any description were a warning and that he refused to teach anyone wearing one.

A baseball cap worn at a jaunty angle spelled trouble (loutish yoof), as did a flat cap pulled low over the forehead (doddering old f***).

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - tony g
Sexism ,ageism ,now hatism what next ?
Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - Andrew-T

I treat them with great respect like a 25 meter gap or pass them if I can..

Just as an aside, Madf - why are your posts triple-spaced? Looks like you are leaving a 25-metre gap round everything ....

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - madf

Chrome.

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - barney100

Unfortunately if run into the vehicle in front there is little you can plead.

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - Avant

I have far more sympathy for IJF's wife than have some others. I've no stats to prove it, but I suspect that mindless braking and stopping are responsible for as many accidents as sheer speed. So, of course, is driving too close to the person in front - but it is reasonable to expect someone to accelereate away from lights at a junction or roundabout, assumig the road ahead to be clear.

You'll just have to see what attitude the insurers take: 50-50 might be the best you can hope for gven that insurers' decisions are guided by computers rather than human brains.

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - John Boy

madf said:

I give elderly drivers - little ladies and men wearing hats or bald # - LOTS of space ...

... Edit

~ yes I am elderly as well :-)

What should we look out for in order to recognise you then?

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - madf

madf said:

I give elderly drivers - little ladies and men wearing hats or bald # - LOTS of space ...

... Edit

~ yes I am elderly as well :-)

What should we look out for in order to recognise you then?

In no particular order:

sartorial elegance

handsome

slim

fit

attractive to the opposite sex

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - John Boy

madf said:

In no particular order:

sartorial elegance

handsome

slim

fit

attractive to the opposite sex

But not wearing a hat or bald?

Renault Laguna - Rear end shunt - always to blame?? - madf

Wearing a hat on cold days when walking

Bald? err.. nearly..Thinning :-)