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RR84213 Offence Code - difficulty with my insurer - Antony

Hi - hope the forum can help with this. Will take a while to explain, so my apologies...

I received a NIP last month for speeding at the end of November 2024. The offence was: "Exceed 30 mph speed limit in contravention of a Local Traffic Order - manned equipment". I was doing 35mph in a 30mph, so no complaints and will take it on the chin as a fixed penalty with a £100 fine and 3 points.

The Offence Code is 'RR84213'. I hadn't heard of this, but did some research online and it appears to be a CJS (Criminal Justice System?) code, whose equivalent DVLA code is SP30, which most people will be familiar with. But I can't be certain. I did wonder whether it's not an SP30 because it was marked camera van, rather than a fixed camera?

My motor insurance is due for renewal by EOD 4th Jan this year, so rang them today to let them know about the fixed penalty, and they did not recognise the offence code. The lady I spoke to told me I need to get clarification from the police or the DVLA as to what DVLA code it is, as they don't use any other codes. I must admit I was rather surprised at this - I can't be the first person contacting their insurer about a RR84213 code? And I am not sure why I need to do this digging for them. I would have thought all insurers would have this info.

The insurance lady asked me to check my driving licence info online to see if the conviction had been added, so I did (and I generated a code so she could check for herself) - it hasn't been added yet so, as far as my insurer is concerned, my licence is clean (it looks like they treat the DVLA system as the 'system of record', which is fair enough). I was told that I could renew on the basis that my licence is clean, i.e. accept the renewal premium (as no other changes), but when the conviction finally does appear, the premium would likely change (increase) and, because this would be treated as a change to the policy, I would need to pay an admin fee for the privilege! If declared at renewal time, there would be no fee.

So, my questions are:

1. Is my understanding of the RR84213 being the same as the DVLA's SP30 correct? If so, could somebody point me to where this is documented officially?

2. Why would my insurer (indeed, all insurers) not know this and make me clarify it? Seems bizarre to me.

3. I understand that if I make changes to my policy after I've taken it out, I need to pay a fee (no complaints there). What I am struggling with is, having declared my fixed penalty to my insurer now before I come to renew, because (at the moment) they don't seem to know what offence code it is and because it doesn't appear on my driving licence profile yet, I will need to renew on the basis my licence is clean and pay an admin fee to change it very soon. This doesn't seem fair to me. Or am I overreacting?

Edited by Antony on 02/01/2025 at 20:00

RR84213 Offence Code - difficulty with my insurer - Brit_in_Germany

This shows that offence code as being an SP30 offence

www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/legal...f

RR84213 Offence Code - difficulty with my insurer - Antony

Thanks - that's the document I found too (and the only thing which suggests my offence translates to an SP30). I'm surprised nothing more readily available elsewhere though, or via my insurer.

RR84213 Offence Code - difficulty with my insurer - Middleman

I can't be the first person contacting their insurer about a RR84213 code?

You may not be the first, but you will be among a very small number of people.

Your insurers (or few other people for that matter) are unlikely to recognise or be interested in the CJS offence code. There are over 14,000 of them and here's the list:

view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A...K

As above, the endorsement code is what they will recognise and require. That is all that will be shown on your driving record.

As for paying an admin fee to alter the policy after renewal, why not simply renew on the basis that you have an SP30 endorsement? Penalty points remain "active" for totting up purposes for three years. Convictions/endorsements remain visible on your driving record for four years and must be declared to (most) insurers for five years. But all these periods begin from the date of the offence. So it makes no difference whether you declare it now or when it eventually appears on your record. .

RR84213 Offence Code - difficulty with my insurer - Antony

Thanks, Middleman.

When I was on the phone to the insurer, I was able to get a revised quote on the basis the offence was an SP30, and suggested that I just pay that amount when I renew, which would avoid me having to pay any fee to change it later. The lady replied that they use the DVLA system as their reference and that is still showing me as having no penalties (I don't know when this will update), but I might be able to pay the revised amount anyway.

It does make me wonder why I was issued with this RR84213 code in the first place, given my insurer's response. Trying to contact the issuing force to clarify is not straightforward either (it would have helped a lot if the original correspondence had mentioned the corresponding DVLA code).

I'm probably also unlucky in the timing as this is being processed so close to my renewal date.

Edited by Antony on 03/01/2025 at 12:41

RR84213 Offence Code - difficulty with my insurer - Middleman

It does make me wonder why I was issued with this RR84213 code in the first place,

I wondered that too.

I contribute to a number of motoring forums and it is very rare for a driver to have sight of or to mention the CJS code. It's really only of any use to police and the prosecuting authorities. I think the police and the CPS use them for charging decisions and they are used for data collection. I'm not surprised your insurer asked you to get the DVLA endorsement code. However, no matter, you have it now.

There is one thing that has occurred to me which you may care to check. You haven't mentioned it anywhere, but did you provide your driving licence details as well as paying the £100 penalty? You have to provide the details twice - once when you confirm you were he driver and again when accepting the fixed penalty offer. If you don't, the offer will be withdrawn and you will be prosecuted in court.

My curiosity is getting the better of me today - is there any reason why you were not offered a course? Your speed was well within the range (up to 42mph in a 30mph limit).

Edited by Middleman on 03/01/2025 at 17:06

RR84213 Offence Code - difficulty with my insurer - Antony

Thanks again, Middleman. In response to your questions:

Yes, I have provided my licence details twice, for the reasons you outline. When confirming I was the driver, I could do this online but, as part of accepting the FP offer, I had to post a form with them on to HMCTS 'Conditional Offer Unit' - no idea why this step couldn't also be electronic. Incidentally, I had a question about filling out the form so I rang the Conditional Offer Unit (no easy feat to get through to), and they were able to confirm the SP30 was the equivalent of the RR84213.

Unfortunately, I did a speed awareness course about 2 years ago (46mph in a 40mph limit), so I'm not eligible this time, had they decided to offer me one. I wonder if I'd been flashed at 34mph this time whether it would have made any difference? I have to take it on the chin, I guess!

Interestingly, I was misinformed by the employee from the insurer about how the speeding conviction would be treated. A different employee clarified - at the time of renewal, because it didn't appear on my licence details online (and still doesn't - just checked), my insurer disregarded it and I renewed as though it hadn't happened, regardless of when it does get added later this year. Come renewal in a year's time, it will of course be present and will likely affect my premium accordingly though.

RR84213 Offence Code - difficulty with my insurer - Middleman

“I wonder if I'd been flashed at 34mph this time whether it would have made any difference?”

It would have made a considerable difference. In a 30mph limit enforcement does not normally begin until 35mph so you should have seen no action.

Different insurers operate different requirements. Some want to be notified of endorsements only on renewal, others require them to be notified immediately they are imposed. Your Terms & Conditions should clarify. What did puzzle me was the idea that you telling them mid-term (if they required you to do so) would constitute a "policy change" and attract an admin fee. It may well have attracted a premium increase but I don’t see how they can impose an admin fee for you telling them something that your policy requires you to do.

I would keep a careful eye on your driving record, especially as you submitted your licence details by post. It would not normally take more than a couple of weeks for the DVLA to add the recent SP30 to your record (perhaps add a week for Christmas). If it goes much over that I would contact the fixed penalty office to ensure your DL details have been received.

RR84213 Offence Code - difficulty with my insurer - Antony

My policy requires me to inform my insurer when I renew if I or any driver on my policy have had any motoring convictions or endorsements during the period of insurance. As it happens, the NIP arrived about a month before my renewal date anyway.

Because I'd informed them of the conviction prior to renewal (for which, no admin charge at this point), I was worried that the delay in it appearing on my driving record online would lead to the insurer treating it as a policy change when the DVLA did update its record. I now know this will only take effect for my insurer when I next renew.

Will check my driving record online, as you suggest. Thanks again.