VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Nico Nico

Hello I would like some advice on the above which I purchased Sept with fixed finance in place. The range advertised is 331 but getting 230 on run London to Oxford.

I fully appreciate variants as have had another Volvo for 3 years with an older battery with less capacity and I am getting similar range. I would realistically expect to get 280/300 range.

Whole purpose of another car was specifically for longer range which I highlighted whilst searching. Complaint made and I advised through Finance Dept (all part of Volvo themselves sadly) I was rejecting car within first 30 days of receipt.. The misrepresentation side was not even touched upon. Case dismissed, no fault on car. Won't reopen just told to go to Ombudsman.

If this 29% drop in range for longer journeys is known I feel this should have been highlighted to me prior to sale/when choosing model and surely constitutes misselling /mispresentation.

Any assistance/advice I would appreciate. Thank you.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Simoncelli58

Welcome to the Real world!

No car, Electric, Diesel or Petrol, will do anything close to manufacturers figures.

It's been like this for decades.

I had a 3.0 litre Audi A7, manufacturers quoted 65mpg. I got 39 on a run, high 20s around town! And I was pleased with that.

Good luck with the ombudsman, but he's pretty toothless these days, so I doubt you'll get anywhere there.

If you think your range is bad now, wait for winter.

You'll be lucky to get ½ what they advertise.

Electric cars, whilst OK for some, are lacking for most people, who are used to the convenience of a ICE car.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - catsdad

If you are relying on Volvo advertised figures then you will undoubtedly find that these were qualified in the small print. They are standard figures from a standard test, not real life. It’s the same procedure with all makes.

If the car you bought was advertised by the dealer making mileage claims without qualification you might have a claim. Or if they put something in writing. Even then they are not going to roll over and any claim via the ombudsman will take weeks or months with almost no chance of success.

It’s going to be very hard to argue that you did research but didn’t become across the way the official figures work.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Nico Nico

mickyh7 Thank you for your prompt reply. Yes I fully appreciate the 331 is the optimum range, which is not obtainable. Having a Volvo different model for 3 years and achieving similar range, you would think the newer engine would perform better. Obviously they knew all along I would not get a better range as I clearly specified was the reason for buying a second vehicle.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Nico Nico

mickyh7 strange as they advise 230 on a run is "normal" and higher around so opposite to our experience.!

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Andrew-T

No car, Electric, Diesel or Petrol, will do anything close to manufacturers figures. It's been like this for decades.

That's a very downbeat statement. First define 'anything close' - if we agree 'within 10%' then my 1991 Pug 205 (petrol) has averaged ~55 mpg while the handbook suggests 61 at steady 56mph. So the next consideration (much more significant) is how and where you drive. My figure above comes from 40-mile trips on 40% dual carriageway, 40% A-road and the rest rural lane or urban.

But I would have thought that an EV should return more predictable figures than an ICE car, partly because its control system must be intrinsically simpler ? Is tearaway driving more wasteful as it is with ICE ?

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - skidpan

Just looked on the Volvo website and unless I am missing something the quoted figures are very odd.

With an ICE car the "theoretical" range is pretty easy to calculate. My previous 1.4 TSi 150 PS Superb would do about 52 mpg on a long run and had a 14 gallon tank. That would give a range of 728 miles (but in reality only a fool would run much into the red on the gauge and you can never get the tank totally full).

Volvo quote the battery of the twin engine as 82 kWh and the energy consumption as 28 kWh/100 miles (WLTP total figure). Mr Casio says that the "theoretical" range is therefore 293 miles, 40 miles short of the advertised range.

Those figures would be obtained in a nice dry and warm lab, not out in the real world. So you would never achieve them.

Don't think you get the full amount of electricity in the battery so that's another deduction. (some brands allow you to choose the max % charge).

Just like with an ICE only a fool would run the battery "dry".

Take 30 miles off for a 90% charge, allow 20 miles safety for getting to a charge point and your range is 243 miles.

Then the real world factor, take off another 10% (more in winter).

So the range drops to about 220 miles.

Makes your 230 miles look about right.

Just found a website where they give info for the real range. EC40 twin motor combined mild weather 284 miles. Cold weather 212 miles.

Did you do any research? The info is out there.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Andrew-T

.... only a fool would run much into the red on the gauge and you can never get the tank totally full ....

Take all your calcs, Skidpan. But only your fool would try to get a tank 'totally full', for obvious gravitational and centrifugal reasons ?

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - skidpan

.... only a fool would run much into the red on the gauge and you can never get the tank totally full ....

Take all your calcs, Skidpan. But only your fool would try to get a tank 'totally full', for obvious gravitational and centrifugal reasons ?

Lots of fools about.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Nico Nico

Have a Volvo CX40 for over 3 years electric and getting similar range to that of the newer twin engine on the EC40. Doesn't make sense to me.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - RT

Have a Volvo CX40 for over 3 years electric and getting similar range to that of the newer twin engine on the EC40. Doesn't make sense to me.

There has been a change in the standardised test for both IC cars and EVs - it means that results from the two tests aren't comparable.

I find the best comparison is the American EPA test - but lots of models sold in Europe aren't sold in North America so not subject to the EPA test.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Nico Nico

Thank you for your information, very informative.

I have had a Volvo XC40 for over 3 years electric and getting similar range to that of the newer twin engine on the EC40. Doesn't make sense to me.

I particularly advised the representative that the only reason I was buying another car was that I was looking for a suitable model to provide a better range for longer distances when travelling abroad.

I would have expected the new engines to perform better than my 3 year old one.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - FiestaOwner

Hello I would like some advice on the above which I purchased Sept with fixed finance in place. The range advertised is 331 but getting 230 on run London to Oxford.......

......Any assistance/advice I would appreciate. Thank you.

How fast are you driving? The reason I'm asking is that the RAC reckon the most economical speed to drive an ICE car at is 45-50mph. My experience with ICE cars matches this. I would expect electric cars to be the same. See the end of point 2 on the following link.

www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/how-to/fuel-saving-tips/

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Andrew-T

<< ... the RAC reckon the most economical speed to drive an ICE car at is 45-50mph. My experience with ICE cars matches this. I would expect electric cars to be the same. >>

The explanation is quite simple. The optimum economical cruising speed is when in top gear with the engine near its peak power output, around 3000rpm for petrol and 2000 for a diesel. Once past that point more effort is needed to overcome air and rolling resistance, so mpg will decrease.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - RT

<< ... the RAC reckon the most economical speed to drive an ICE car at is 45-50mph. My experience with ICE cars matches this. I would expect electric cars to be the same. >>

The explanation is quite simple. The optimum economical cruising speed is when in top gear with the engine near its peak power output, around 3000rpm for petrol and 2000 for a diesel. Once past that point more effort is needed to overcome air and rolling resistance, so mpg will decrease.

You might mean "with the engine near its peak TORQUE point" as that's where is most efficient.

In top gear, my 3.0 TDi can't reach it's peak power point as it would be 180 mph !!!

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - FiestaOwner

<< ... the RAC reckon the most economical speed to drive an ICE car at is 45-50mph. My experience with ICE cars matches this. I would expect electric cars to be the same. >>

The explanation is quite simple. The optimum economical cruising speed is when in top gear with the engine near its peak power output, around 3000rpm for petrol and 2000 for a diesel. Once past that point more effort is needed to overcome air and rolling resistance, so mpg will decrease.

Sorry, this just isn't true. My car sits about 2,200 rpm at 60mph in top gear. It's definitely less economical at 70 than 60mph. It's even more economical at 50.

3000rpm equates to around 80mph (not a chance of good economy at that speed). I'll stand by my original statement of between 45-50mph. As stated by the RAC, in the link.

However, I found that a 50kwh Renault Zoe set a record of travelling 425 miles on a charge. The optimum speed to achieve that was 19mph!!!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/beyond-hypermiling

Edited by FiestaOwner on 16/11/2024 at 20:01

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - RichardW

Whilst the engine may be most efficient at its peak torque point and use less fuel per kW developed, the increase in air resistance with increasing speed is relentless, and more power (and therefore more fuel) is required to travel faster.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Andrew-T

<< Sorry, this just isn't true. My car sits about 2,200 rpm at 60mph in top gear. It's definitely less economical at 70 than 60mph. It's even more economical at 50. >>

I don't see how that conflicts with what I wrote ? Any car feels more wind and rolling resistance at higher speeds, so is less economical.

OK, I meant torque ,not power. I'm sure y'all understand the basic science. But how does this affect an EV ? Is its speed/torque curve similar ? It has rapid acceleration, but how does that affect economy ?

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Adampr

I don't think you have a case in terms of mis-selling. The advertised range is the WLTP range and isn't the manufacturer's responsibility.

However, I think you might have a fault. Given that the EC40 is marginally lighter and probably more aerodynamic than the XC40, it is indeed odd that it is not achieving a better range with a larger battery.

When I had an electric Corsa, it would sometimes have a significantly lower range on identical journeys in similar conditions. Eventually, that turned out to be an intermittent fault whereby the regenerative braking wasn't working (the brakes were, it just wasn't charging the battery).

I think that, rather than getting excited about whether you've been lied to, your first stop should be to take it back to the dealer and ask them to run a diagnostic scan on it.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Nico Nico

Thank you, yes I have and battery 100%, no fault found.

Fact is my old 3 year old Volvo first fully electric is performing at 240 motorway driving yesterday when it was advertised range of 260...how can this be when the "new" model performs under this yesterday showing 217!

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Terry W

The WTLP tests are performed in a laboratory with a temperature of 23C. Anything lower (likely in the UK) will lead to increased consumption.

The WTLP test also covers a range of driving conditions - but the higher speed element makes up only a small part of the total. At 60mph aerodynamic + rolling resistance is 2.5 times that at 30mph.

EVs have an entirely different consumption pattern to ICE:

  • in town ICE is poor due to frequent braking, acceleration and idling. On a motorway optimal consumption is at a steady moderate speed
  • EV do well in towns due to regenerative braking and engine off at lights etc. On motorways higher aerodynamic drag kills efficiency.

I am not surprised the advertised test based figures are not achieved on a motorway. To maximise range try following HGVs and stay away from the outside lane!

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Xileno

Some later posts removed as drifting into irrelevant discussion considering the OP's question and also some unnecessary remarks creeping in.

Mod

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - madf

Air drag increases with square of vehicle speed So at 70mph , drag = 70x70 / 60x60 times or 136% the drag at 60mph.

You can achieve quoted mpg IF:

Temperatures as c 25C

there are no headwinds/no hills/no traffic lights

you hypermile

there is no traffic

So in real world terms, impossible.

Not worth debating.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - edlithgow

OP, by convention, electric powerplants are motors. IC powerplants are engines, unless you are N. American, in which case they are (both?) motors.

Realise this doesn't help you with your problem, but then I suspect nothing else will either.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Andrew-T

OP, by convention, electric powerplants are motors. IC powerplants are engines, unless you are N. American, in which case they are (both?) motors.

Whereas on this side of the pond, a 'motor' may mean the whole vehicle ....:-)

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - skidpan

You can achieve quoted mpg IF:

Temperatures as c 25C

there are no headwinds/no hills/no traffic lights

you hypermile

there is no traffic

So in real world terms, impossible.

Not worth debating.

Never seen anything like the "official" mpg in any car we have owned. Some have been closer that others but even on a long trip that have been under the quoted figures.

Then we got the Yaris. Quoted figure is 68.8 mpg (for design trim) and that is beaten (just) by the HJ real mpg figure of 69.1 mpg. To be honest we did not expect to match either of those figures.

Well 9 months in and we have been surprised. So far in mixed driving its averaged just over 72 mpg (calculated) with no effort made to maximise mpg. Been fed a diet of E10 petrol, mostly from Tesco. On a 250 mile round trip to Whitby in early summer (mostly fast A roads and Motorways with plenty of hills driven at the speed limits) tank to tank fill up suggested 85 mpg.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Andrew-T

<< Then we got the Yaris. Quoted figure is 68.8 mpg (for design trim) and that is beaten (just) by the HJ real mpg figure of 69.1 mpg. To be honest we did not expect to match either of those figures. >>

As this thread is titled 'electric' I assume your Yaris is a hybrid, which I also assume means some of the fuel you put into it comes from the Grid ? In which case, I'm not sure what an 'official' figure actually means. Must be more approximate than the ICE numbers we are used to ?

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - madf

<< Then we got the Yaris. Quoted figure is 68.8 mpg (for design trim) and that is beaten (just) by the HJ real mpg figure of 69.1 mpg. To be honest we did not expect to match either of those figures. >>

As this thread is titled 'electric' I assume your Yaris is a hybrid, which I also assume means some of the fuel you put into it comes from the Grid ? In which case, I'm not sure what an 'official' figure actually means. Must be more approximate than the ICE numbers we are used to ?

Yaris is :Self charging hybrid

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - skidpan

<< Then we got the Yaris. Quoted figure is 68.8 mpg (for design trim) and that is beaten (just) by the HJ real mpg figure of 69.1 mpg. To be honest we did not expect to match either of those figures. >>

As this thread is titled 'electric' I assume your Yaris is a hybrid, which I also assume means some of the fuel you put into it comes from the Grid ? In which case, I'm not sure what an 'official' figure actually means. Must be more approximate than the ICE numbers we are used to ?

The Yaris is a Self Charging Hybrid thus the electric power is generated by either using the ICE or regen form braking or coasting.

Unlike a PHEV that means the calculated mpg based on fuel bought and miles covered is correct with no "fuel" from the grid to include.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Andrew-T

<< The Yaris is a Self Charging Hybrid thus the electric power is generated by either using the ICE or regen form braking or coasting. Unlike a PHEV that means the calculated mpg based on fuel bought and miles covered is correct with no "fuel" from the grid to include.>>

Thanks for that. Does that mean that the most economical driving style is gentle acceleration, with deceleration always by brakes, never downshift ? Unless it's an auto, of course ...

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Manatee

That's a good question.

Leaving EV's aside for a moment, I'm very light on brakes. If I see a bend or other hazard, including a roundabout, that I need to slow for I will lift off in good time and try to arrive with the speed I need, or needing just light application of brake for a final adjustment.

To apply this to an EV with regenerative braking I think this 'lift and coast' approach is going to be more efficient than maximising regen, if only because of charging inefficiency.

Regen is AIUI often adjustable - you can choose how much you want. I guess most people will maximise regen, both to save the brakes and also to avoid throwing away energy in the form of heat. from friction. I gather that, whilst this saves the brake pads, on some models it leads to early replacement owing to rusted discs, so it might be false economy on two counts.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - gordonbennet



Regen is AIUI often adjustable - you can choose how much you want. I guess most people will maximise regen, both to save the brakes and also to avoid throwing away energy in the form of heat. from friction. I gather that, whilst this saves the brake pads, on some models it leads to early replacement owing to rusted discs, so it might be false economy on two counts.

I drive like yourself, dare say a mechanically minded hybrid driver will alter regen and give the brakes a work out every so often to clean the brakes up, particularly just before parking up after wet driving.

I'm surprised truck makers haven't been the first off the line for making trucks hybrid as against full electric (which is several decades away for heavy long distance transport), if deceleration and downhill losses could be recovered in commercials and used to help accelerate the vehicle back to cruising speed the gains in economy would IMHO make the gains in car fuel efficiency pale by comparison.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - SLO76
“ I'm surprised truck makers haven't been the first off the line for making trucks hybrid as against full electric (which is several decades away for heavy long distance transport), if deceleration and downhill losses could be recovered in commercials and used to help accelerate the vehicle back to cruising speed the gains in economy would IMHO make the gains in car fuel efficiency pale by comparison.”

Possibly because hybrids aren’t at their best over longer distances at sustained speed. Around town a hybrid is at its best, constantly regenerating energy into the battery pack and in turn allowing the electric motor to reduce fuel consumption, but on motorways you’re just driving a normal petrol or diesel car and towing a lot of extra weight along for the ride. A hybrid Toyota Auris is really little to no better than a much cheaper and less complex 1.2 turbo when sitting on a motorway. Trucks won’t really benefit from hybrid tech in my opinion unless they’re smaller vehicles mostly for town and city use.
VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - bathtub tom
A hybrid Toyota Auris is really little to no better than a much cheaper and less complex 1.2 turbo when sitting on a motorway.

Toyota hybrids use the Atkinson cycle for their ICE. Much more economical at the cost of less power, that can be supplemented by the electric motor when more grunt's required.

I don't know how that can be taken advantage of in a 40 tonne diesel cruising at 55MPH.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Adampr

<< The Yaris is a Self Charging Hybrid thus the electric power is generated by either using the ICE or regen form braking or coasting. Unlike a PHEV that means the calculated mpg based on fuel bought and miles covered is correct with no "fuel" from the grid to include.>>

Thanks for that. Does that mean that the most economical driving style is gentle acceleration, with deceleration always by brakes, never downshift ? Unless it's an auto, of course ...

Almost all hybrids are auto.

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Dorset123

Welcome to the real world of electric cars. Sadly in the winter this is what you will find I am surprised you didn't know this would happen. The same thing happened when the government said buy diesel and a lot of people just followed like sheep and its happening again with electric cars.

Edited by Dorset123 on 08/01/2025 at 20:52

VOLVO EC40, twin engine, electric - Range not as advertised - Brit_in_Germany

The OP changed from one EV to another, with the new car having a larger battery. It is not unreasonable to expect that such a change would result in an increase in the usable range.