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Leaves on the line - Andrew-T

The recent train crash between Shrewsbury and Machynlleth reminds us that it is that time of year again. I am also reminded by hearing the occasional train passing by with a 'flat' on a wheel somewhere, probably caused in the same way. Trains have been quiet until this week.

Maybe also a note of caution to regular (car and truck) drivers ?

Leaves on the line - daveyjp

When I was a regular commuter by rail I experienced a couple of leaves on the line sliding indicents as a passenger.

Over many years of using the same line you get used to the acceleration and braking points and at the start of one downhill section the speed limit reduces to accommodate a very tight bend on approach to a station.

I felt the brakes apply, but the sound was different and the train didn't slow. It was only for a short distance, but it was obvious what was happening and it was not pleasant. The wheels gripped eventually and there was no serious incident, but I can see how the accident in Wales happened.

Leaves on the line - Engineer Andy

The recent train crash between Shrewsbury and Machynlleth reminds us that it is that time of year again. I am also reminded by hearing the occasional train passing by with a 'flat' on a wheel somewhere, probably caused in the same way. Trains have been quiet until this week.

Maybe also a note of caution to regular (car and truck) drivers ?

..and cyclists and motorcyclists, where the contact patch is very small and risk of not stopping, the rear tyre letting go as you are turning can result in a very serious accident. The combination of leaves, water and other detritus can be a deadly combination on the roads as well as on the railways.

Where I live, we have the 'pleasure' of the 'leaves on the line clearance train' being a regular visitor, parked up in a siding adjacent to the station, diesel engine turning over during the wee hours in readiness to be called into action elsewhere.

Leaves on the line - gordonbennet

Would compressed air jets blowing directly onto the rails just ahead of the train not help aleviate this problem?

For car and truck drivers yes leaves can be an issue, country routes especially, rural laybys are especially prone so always worth knocking some speed off before entering the layby.

Edited by gordonbennet on 03/11/2024 at 06:48

Leaves on the line - galileo

Would compressed air jets blowing directly onto the rails just ahead of the train not help aleviate this problem?

For car and truck drivers yes leaves can be an issue, country routes especially, rural laybys are especially prone so always worth knocking some speed off before entering the layby.

This problem is worse than it used to be because in the days when steam locos were used, lineside vegetation was cut back to reduce the risk of fires triggered by sparks.

Small saplings which would have been cut have now grown into major trees, so shedding more leaves, tree preservation is now preferred to felling. Having said that, our local line is having vegetation trimmed in preparation for upgrading the Trans-Pennine route.

Typical axle weight of steam locos was 15 to 20 tons, so 7.5 to 10 tons per wheel. Present multi unit coaches spread a weight of up to 48 tons over two four wheel bogies, so weight per wheel is only 6 tons or less.

I understand that once crushed by traffic, leaves form a very adhesive 'goo' which can only be removed by high pressure liquid sprays from the special units Engineer Andy mentions.

Leaves on the line - daveyjp

The change from wheel brakes to seperate disk brakes, whilst vastly improving stopping distances also removed the one device which kept the wheels clean of leaf mulch.

Wheels picked up the mulch, brakes applied, wheels cleaned ready to pick up more leaf mulch.

Leaves on the line - Andrew-T

The change from wheel brakes to seperate disk brakes, whilst vastly improving stopping distances also removed the one device which kept the wheels clean of leaf mulch.

Wheels picked up the mulch, brakes applied, wheels cleaned ready to pick up more leaf mulch.

Leaves settle on the track, so what ultimately matters in stopping a train weighing anything up to 300 tons is metal-wheel to metal-rail contact, over a smaller area than with a rubber tyre. Many modern train sets have large disc brakes as part of the wheel itself, so braking area is much greater than on the old-fashioned block-on-rim type. Plus the reduced axle loading as Galileo says, making a skid much more likely, especially if a driver tries an emergency stop.

Perhaps they need ABS - or I guess they already do ?

Leaves on the line - nick62

This problem is worse than it used to be because in the days when steam locos were used, lineside vegetation was cut back to reduce the risk of fires triggered by sparks.

Actually in most cases, the sparks CAUSED lineside fires which prevented saplings from growing into trees.

Leaves on the line - Andrew-T

This problem is worse than it used to be because in the days when steam locos were used, lineside vegetation was cut back to reduce the risk of fires triggered by sparks.

Actually in most cases, the sparks CAUSED lineside fires which prevented saplings from growing into trees.

I doubt there were enough lineside fires to cause complete clearance of vegetation. Old photos show hardly any encroachment in steam days. Heritage lines which can still afford to run steam need clearance gangs to deal with the problem.

Nowadays NR seems to just let the trains deal with vegetation, and occasionally it fights back enough to hit the train - so passengers must be prevented from putting anything out of windows (some of which can still be opened on old carriages).

Leaves on the line - nick62

Where I live, we have the 'pleasure' of the 'leaves on the line clearance train' ........

Officially known as the RHTT, (rail head treatment train).

tinyurl.com/24r3d6ws

Leaves on the line - galileo

Where I live, we have the 'pleasure' of the 'leaves on the line clearance train' ........

Officially known as the RHTT, (rail head treatment train).

tinyurl.com/24r3d6ws

Preliminary report suggests the sanding equipment on the train involved in \Wales was not operating correctly, a blockage in the delivery tube.

RAIB's full report will, in due course, no doubt cover all details. For those interested Google 'Rail Accident Investigation Board'.

Similar Boards investigate and issue very detailed Reports on Air and Marine Accidents, well worth a look at, very thorough and educational.