If the car has a physical, rather than electronic, SIM, you could try removing this if you can find where it is hidden.
If memory serves correctly about 5 or more motors have built in chips etc which control transmission to main server as Tesla do, which iirc Musk went to China negotiating transmission rights as they wouldn't allow it but someone correct if wrong
His supercomputer is designed to teach,program computers fitted to his cars
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If the car has a physical, rather than electronic, SIM, you could try removing this if you can find where it is hidden.
If it is using SIMs and the mobile network then it is going to have problems when the network upgrades to 4G or 5G and things no longer work. It is also going to need some sort of subscription to the network and that will need to be paid for either by the owner or by the manufacturer. If it is the manufacturer how long will they pay for it for your car? Ten years or fifteen or what? When they stop paying it and it gets cut off will that affect the operation of your car?
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Far as I can tell the Mokka-e uses the data connection of the phone that it's Bluetoothed to whilst it's connected. Ditto the Fiat 500e. Which makes sense for the reasons you mentioned.
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If it has an SOS button near the rear view mirror, then it has its own connectivity.
SOS needs to be able to function without having a phone onboard.
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Dont think you need a sim to call emergency services.
Edited by Ethan Edwards on 14/06/2024 at 15:20
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Connectivity could be a threat to civil liberties, with the possibility of personal tracking, monitoring speed, issuing fines, integrating position with other activities/friends etc etc.
These capabilities already exist - full integration has yet to happen. Will malign powers use data as a means of control or will volumes swamp analysis. It could be AI managed - credit cards automatically charged with speeding fines, car park charges etc.
Alternatively it could be very positive, enabling driverless cars, increasing public safety, providing solid data for road and infrastructure upgrades (right time right place), monitoring vehicle needs (fuel, servicing, component replacements) etc.
That it will take 10-20 years for all vehicles to be appropriately equipped is inevitable. A common sense approach would mandate standard software, backwards compatibility etc.
Governments like control, yet routinely deny it will be used for other than the public good - you are free to think otherwise. They will be drawn to the benefits whilst denying any threat to civil liberties. I see it as inevitable.
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If it is using SIMs and the mobile network then it is going to have problems when the network upgrades to 4G or 5G and things no longer work.
my mobile phone has a physical 5G sim ...
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Hi,
Plenty of replies to my question, thanks.
Since I posted, I've found out that telemetry has been transmitted back for 5-20 years, and is being ramped up.
I'm sure vehicles have different amounts of 'surveillance', but some use their own modem/sim, paid for by the manufacturer.
The manufactruers are selling the DATA in all sorts of directions.
These sims/computers are difficult to check, but experts have interrogating equipment to diagnose problems. They can also see DATA from connected phones, such as messages images and other scary stuff.
From what i've found out and what's in this thread, I don't like it, and I will only by one of the later vehicles, if I can shield or disarm the sim, without affecting the warrantee or managment for say efficiency.
C.
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I would say that the internet is full of experts who claim to have full understanding of subjects about which they’re merely hypothesising.
I’d be surprised if anyone could see the contents of any messages that are passed between mobile and car via Bluetooth or CarPlay/Android Auto - I’ve always been under the impression that that’s a ‘closed loop’.
Is it something to worry about? For me, not in the slightest. I share my location on a permanent basis with my immediate family, as they do with me.
Even my hearing aids track my location…
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The ecall system only becomes active when you press the button or your airbags deploy. It does not track your position in realtime.
Most other cars (Tesla being the obvious exception, I'm sure there are others) only send data via your mobile phone once you have downloaded an optional app and paired your phone to the car.
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The ecall system only becomes active when you press the button or your airbags deploy. It does not track your position in realtime.
Most other cars (Tesla being the obvious exception, I'm sure there are others) only send data via your mobile phone once you have downloaded an optional app and paired your phone to the car.
If you remember the old TomTom systems that people used to have, they could be interrogated to show where the unit had been. About ten years ago a murder was solved when the police seized the suspect's TomTom and sent it to the makers who were able to show that it had been at the murder scene at the relevant time. Nowadays they do the tracking with mobile phone logs.
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The ecall system only becomes active when you press the button or your airbags deploy. It does not track your position in realtime.
Most other cars (Tesla being the obvious exception, I'm sure there are others) only send data via your mobile phone once you have downloaded an optional app and paired your phone to the car.
If you remember the old TomTom systems that people used to have, they could be interrogated to show where the unit had been. About ten years ago a murder was solved when the police seized the suspect's TomTom and sent it to the makers who were able to show that it had been at the murder scene at the relevant time. Nowadays they do the tracking with mobile phone logs.
Google tracks phones through maps, I get a map sent to me at month end, showing where I have been, I don't turn it off as it proved on one occasion where I was issued a parking ticket fine by post, maps proved I wasn't there and didn't have to pay the £120 asked for
Though android tracks you all the time so why shouldn't a car, I expect all cars will be with the ability to take control of the car in exceptional circumstances as cars become more robotic as they are doing
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Some of the experts on the internet are just that, and if this sort of thing doesn't bother you, that's fine. I assume most people think like you, but I don't.
Not every one wants their phone contacts list being shared, but they are, and whether I put the brakes on hard or accelerate quickly is my business not the insurance companies or anyone elses.
I'm looking into it, for my sake, but I'm happy to share what I find, even if it's found not to be quite as reported later. I don't like the idea that someone is making money from my data, without sharing it with me or even informing me that they are collecting it. Why the secrecy?
C.
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Not every one wants their phone contacts list being shared, but they are, and whether I put the brakes on hard or accelerate quickly is my business not the insurance companies or anyone elses.
There was a case some years ago involving a person whom had an accident which was thought to be caused by this person making a phone call, it was denied by the person and the phone was investigated to check if they had made a call
it appeared they had not as far as the phone was concerned, but the sim card was checked and had a call on it just as the accident occurred, phone did not pick up the call, it seems the sim cards are a mini computer on there own and transmit data on there own using the phone, but not recorded, call was investigated as it called the phone company, I gather it was denied the call took place but it was mentioned sim cards can call the company giving data from phone.?
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Some of the experts on the internet are just that, and if this sort of thing doesn't bother you, that's fine. I assume most people think like you, but I don't. Not every one wants their phone contacts list being shared, but they are, and whether I put the brakes on hard or accelerate quickly is my business not the insurance companies or anyone elses. I'm looking into it, for my sake, but I'm happy to share what I find, even if it's found not to be quite as reported later. I don't like the idea that someone is making money from my data, without sharing it with me or even informing me that they are collecting it. Why the secrecy? C.
Nobody is making money from your data without your permission. You may have clicked or signed something without reading it, but you have given permission.
As for not sharing phone contacts etc, just don't connect your phone to your car.
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my mobile phone has a physical 5G sim ...
My provider, Lyca, allows access to 5G but my phone doesn't support it. At the time I bought it 5G was still attracting a premium on handset prices and it wasn't something I needed.
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Wasn't there a case a couple of years ago where a jaguar was interrogated after a high speed accident where the couple were highly intoxicated and denied driving at a very high speed.
Gearbox ECU proved speeds..
Don't know if it was sent to JLR over air or manually accessed.
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my mobile phone has a physical 5G sim ...
My provider, Lyca, allows access to 5G but my phone doesn't support it. At the time I bought it 5G was still attracting a premium on handset prices and it wasn't something I needed.
My phone does support 5G but tbh you often get better performance on 4G ...
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Governments like power and control - monitoring systems will become the accepted norm on the basis they can provide real benefits to both individuals and the wider community.
They can be used for good or evil - do you trust your government? Even if you trust Sir Kier, the structures will be still be in place when in a few years time he is succeeded.
If you are personally concerned by the threat to your civil liberty you can take some steps to obscure your identity and activities:
- two phones - one for essential and unavoidable activity - others for all other
- two unrelated emails - one for essential (eg: banking, tax, medical) and one for all other activity.
- other emails to be routinely changed
- prepaid payment cards rather than standard credit/debit cards for most use
- modified ID details for all non-essential accounts - name, DOB, marital status etc
- set up an accommodation address for all non essential transactions
- etc etc
This may be sufficient to obscure or confuse your real activities and interests. Sadly AI systems will no doubt be along soon to help with analysis, may simply identify you as "one to watch" as your behaviour is obviously anomalous.
Welcome to the brave new world - conform or be excluded.
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I recall back in 2012 when I bought a Yaris Hybrid. Somewhere in the cars gubbins apparently it had a 'black box' that recorded the cars data. So that in the event of a big accident then the authorities could get the data. So if your looking for the ideal tin foil hat mobile you're going to have to go old, really old. Like 20 yrs plus.
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Welcome to the brave new world - conform or be excluded.
Cash only apart from online/utility bills which by their very nature are almost impossible to pay in person...local business doesn't want cash? not a problem they won't have to worry about me darkening their doorstep again.
Very happy to be excluded from the new world order, i want nothing whatsoever to do with those at the root of it or the many in their pay, and avoid whenever possible the conformists.
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Interesting!
Take the statement: "I've got nothing to hide" Have you never searched online for something you wouldn't tell us all about? Or told a lie? Or had a private conversation? etc etc.
The 'brave new world' will fix this!
Who know if AI and a phone or car lie detector isn't on the cards. I think you'd be surprised at what technology can achieve it we let it.
Some of us simply prefer to know what others know about us, expecially our pasts (Well maybe just me)
I came here to find other like minded people, but I'm mostly getting justification for loss of prvacy.
Thanks for all of the replies, if there's anyone who has any idea how to stop the vehices from gleaning and transmitting, please let me know.
C.
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Interesting! Take the statement: "I've got nothing to hide" Have you never searched online for something you wouldn't tell us all about? Or told a lie? Or had a private conversation? etc etc. The 'brave new world' will fix this! Who know if AI and a phone or car lie detector isn't on the cards. I think you'd be surprised at what technology can achieve it we let it. Some of us simply prefer to know what others know about us, expecially our pasts (Well maybe just me) I came here to find other like minded people, but I'm mostly getting justification for loss of prvacy. Thanks for all of the replies, if there's anyone who has any idea how to stop the vehices from gleaning and transmitting, please let me know. C.
I can't see anyone justifying a loss of privacy. Some are saying that there is a balance between convenience and privacy. As always, there are people who think the balance should be more one way than the other. For me, there are two major points:
1. Your car is not broadcasting any information unless you have told it to. It has a lot of information stored in it, which could be retrieved if necessary, but it is not surveilling you in amy meaningful way.
2. You are way too late. Everything about you is already stored digitally. Unless you have no online presence at all, there's no point trying to hide. If you have a smart phone, you are sharing all of your movements and private conversations already
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I realise that a lot of data is already stored, but I'm talking about trying to lessen the data, and where and at what speed etc I go is my business.
I think you'd be surprised at what goes to the manufactrurer.
C.
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.... where and at what speed etc I go is my business..
Where, yes. What speed, no, because legal limits are already in place for that - which you are at liberty to exceed, of course. Many of us are happy if 'the system' detects that and takes action.
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My last truck 2018 build opened my eyes.
It was a test vehicle which i kept for the full 5 year term, you would not believe the info it sent constantly to the maker who duly sent monthly reports to my fleet manager, didn't bother me as such (though one or two other drivers were viewed dimly) the workshop could also log on to the vehicle and monitor ECUs etc whilst the vehicle was moving, several times when a warning light appeared i'd ring the workshop and they would diagnose it as i proceeded normally. This isn't exactly cutting edge, years ago some truck makers could make adjustments to various settings remotely as the vehicle was travelling.
Make specific car forums might be a source of info how to stop your vehicle recording and sending data back (the more techinal forums that is), but i suspect if its not already it will soon be a crime to disconnect or block such devices in the EU and our govt of the day will do what its told.
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Your car is but one source of data about you. If you subscribe to conspiracy, state or malign intent, then you should worry about all data held online.
HMRC, payroll, medical, banking, credit card, driving licence, passport, online shopping, twitter, phone, credit rating, forums etc could all be accessed and linked.
The alternatives:
- a web of alternative identities, names, addresses, fake ID, etc - it will take some doing as many databases rely upon the other for identification
- drop out of society completely - may lead to no pension, medical care, passport etc
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- drop out of society completely - may lead to no pension, medical care, passport etc
Some sections of society already do this and have done for decades, they get most or all the benefits without paying much in the way of the taxes the rest of us contribute, and as a bonus generally benefit from the multi tier justice system if they get caught.
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I came here to find other like minded people, but I'm mostly getting justification for loss of prvacy. Thanks for all of the replies, if there's anyone who has any idea how to stop the vehices from gleaning and transmitting, please let me know. C.
That's an issue a lot of people have - only wanting to have people agree with them and stick to one point of view.
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It's strange that I am asking for advice, and getting some of these reactions. Why?
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because your request isn't actually possible (without having other negative repercussions)?
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It's strange that I am asking for advice, and getting some of these reactions. Why?
For, I think, the third time, just don't pair your phone with your car.
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It's strange that I am asking for advice, and getting some of these reactions. Why?
Because people have different thoughts and views on things - some people won't want any company having any of their information whilst other people won't mind in the slightest...and that means many people are somewhere between the two extremes.
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Apparently, my Mazda sends a bunch of data "for product quality, data analysis, research and product development." To add to this, I have also signed up to the Mazda app that allows remote communication with the car via smartphone. Neither of these bother me in any way. I can understand why people would like to protect their privacy but I think that ship sailed long ago.
Edited by davecooper on 24/06/2024 at 21:55
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Hi all,
Many differing views, and I can see some incorrect ones amongst them, I won't point them out, as it won't add to the discussion.
Here's an interesting link, see what you think.
C.
foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-o.../
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In the good old bad old days people lived in stable communities, often for generations.
Few secrets could be held from your neighbours - they knew what you earned, what you had for breakfast, where you worked, how your children behaved, whether you went to church, whether you were upstanding or dishonest etc etc etc.
There was a brief period when anonymity could be achieved - probably 1960-2005. Ties with location were broken courtesy of the car and many knew not the name of their neighbours.
We have now moved into the information and internet age. Once again your life is common knowledge to all who can access your data. It really is a case of (a) get used to it, or (b) drop off the radar completely, or (c) confuse the system with different identities etc.
Car data is but a minor subset - if it is working for you it can identify lower insurance premiums, spot high tyre wear, provide satnav functionality, warn of servicing needs, direct you to a garage, etc. Or revert back to the technological stone age.
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I drive Renaults and Polestars on a regular basis, both of which use an Android/Google based operating system. To gain maximum functionality, you log into it using a Google account.
For the sake of five minutes work, I now have a specific ‘car’ account that I use. It’s not used for anything else - no banking, no overt personal date. If anyone were to try to gain any personal date from it, I think it’d be location (thousands of CCTV and ANPR cameras will do the same job) and what I’m listening to on Spotify.
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Whilst its fine and dandy being blase about data mining (the if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear mindset), it's the ratchet effect of these things that ought to concern people.
At what point do you realise you are the frog and the water's getting hotter.
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Whilst its fine and dandy being blase about data mining (the if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear mindset), it's the ratchet effect of these things that ought to concern people.
At what point do you realise you are the frog and the water's getting hotter.
I think people have already started to realise whats happening, and the speed restricted cars coming up, which I can see causing problems, seem to have made people wonder how much control they will have in future of there own cars and how much info they will be passing to whom.
I do not see it changing anytime soon as the more info they can get from your life the more they want.....turned into an odd controlling world now!
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.....turned into an odd controlling world now!
What are you being stopped from doing?
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.....turned into an odd controlling world now!
What are you being stopped from doing?
From your comment it seems you didn`t read my post, I will leave it at that...?
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.....turned into an odd controlling world now!
What are you being stopped from doing?
From your comment it seems you didn`t read my post, I will leave it at that...?
I did read it - the new speed limiters don't stop you from speeding. They alert you that you are speeding and if you wish to continue doing so won't stop you. So I again ask what you you being stopped from doing?
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.....turned into an odd controlling world now!
What are you being stopped from doing?
From your comment it seems you didn`t read my post, I will leave it at that...?
I did read it - the new speed limiters don't stop you from speeding. They alert you that you are speeding and if you wish to continue doing so won't stop you. So I again ask what you you being stopped from doing?
I didn`t say stopped from doing anything, only mentioned controlling which I can see would be more than possible on a Wi Fi enabled car, ie, if you speed- the limiter will slow you down to the speed limit which a lot of cars do anyway, but with the possibility the car can be slowed down remotely which I gather was the idea, or partially the idea, after the runaway cars some time ago
As AI is coming on so much now, it wont be surprising what may be added to cars maybe sooner rather than later...
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So you did mean stopping you from doing things - speeding being an example.
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So you did mean stopping you from doing things - speeding being an example.
"Speeding" is the act of travelling faster than a speed limit arbitrarily set by one or more individuals who may not actually have driven the piece of road to which the limit has been applied.
Many stretches of road were at one tiime unlimited, then 70, then 60, then 50,40 or even 30 mph. Vehicle handling, braking, lighting and safety systems have improved over the period of years in which all the lower limits have been imposed.
Would you personally agree that every limit you experience is correct ?
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Would you personally agree that every limit you experience is correct ?
Generally, yes, a few maybe I'd personally change but over the years cars have got faster but drivers have not improved.
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Duplicate post
Edited by galileo on 30/06/2024 at 12:42
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A.carn connected over WiFi would be quite inconvenient given the number of passwords you'd need to remember and type in.
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