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any - why change the oil early every time? - gordonbennet

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJhFAwFv-O0

One of the most informative videos you'll see, from The Car Care Nut.

any - why change the oil early every time? - Steveieb

Maybe true that the dealers may not use premium quality oil.

My Indie buys is the right spec oil for my car in just the right quantities which is preferable.

But when my office bought an oil testing kit from Shell we found that we were changing the oil before necessary on Paxman and Deltic diesel engines which were static engines used for power generation .

any - why change the oil early every time? - Andrew-T

In principle, depending on the use any vehicle has had, the oil reaches a state where it needs to be changed before it degrades too far. That point is arbitrary and might be determined by chemical and/or physical analysis, but it doesn't depend predictably on distance covered or time elapsed. So unless you are able or willing to do those chemical/physical tests every (say) 3 months or 2000 miles, it is easier for all concerned to choose an arbitrary interval. On the maker's side, of course, their warranty should not lead to lots of inconvenient claims.

Hence where we are, and what we discuss at frequent intervals.

any - why change the oil early every time? - KB.

What is it that makes me think a certain someone is going to pop up shortly and say they don't agree? It must be some kind if sixth sense.

any - why change the oil early every time? - Chris M

What is it that makes me think a certain someone is going to pop up shortly and say they don't agree? It must be some kind if sixth sense.

I'm sure that certain someone could find a YouTuber that will support his point of view. I'm not going to spend 40 odd minutes watching something that I'm guessing supports GB's viewpoint on servicing. We tend to read/watch/listen to things that support our view of the world.

any - why change the oil early every time? - gordonbennet

What is it that makes me think a certain someone is going to pop up shortly and say they don't agree? It must be some kind if sixth sense.

I'm sure that certain someone could find a YouTuber that will support his point of view. I'm not going to spend 40 odd minutes watching something that I'm guessing supports GB's viewpoint on servicing. We tend to read/watch/listen to things that support our view of the world.

Fir point, i follow CarCareNut because he's an ex master Toyota tech who has set up his own workshop, his view on oil and servicing hasn't changed from when he first started making videos, the new Toyota 4Runner he went over a few months ago is barely indistiguishable chassis suspension and braking system etc from my 19 years old Landcruiser, i'm a big fan of if it aint broke don't fix it design.

What i found interesting about this one was he dismantled and then fitted a brand new short block to a 180k mile Camry, he was quite open about the costs involved, he also broke down how much it would have cost to halve the oil servicing intervals over those 180k miles, which he's convinced would have saved the issues leading to the new short block required, mainly gummed up oil control rings leading to bore wear.

Reminded me to change the oil in the TC today anyway, and given it the once over for MOT in May.

any - why change the oil early every time? - Chris M

GB. Can you paraphrase what the YouTuber is saying with this car. I'm guessing the oil changes have been neglected and all would have been okay had the recommended service intervals been met?

any - why change the oil early every time? - gordonbennet

Of course.

Its been serviced to makers requirements, ie every 10k miles, owner has kept it topped up in between and the vehicle has been used for long highway journeys as well as typical useage.

Around 120k miles it started using oil and @ 150 or so the consumption worsened, customer unsure whether to buy new car (prices high, devil you know and all that) so after chat with CCN decided on strip down and see, CCN being experienced in the vehicles knew what he was likely to find so already had the short block in his workshop the day the vehicle came in..

The video shows the entire job from start to finish with some parts of the job speeded up the more interesting items shown and explained well, total hours spent 20, total cost just over $6000.

Shown clearly were the oil control rings gummed up with carbon unable to be compressed into their guides so stuck, this is most likely what caused easily seen excess wear ridges to develop in 2 of the bores.

Head wise he removed all valves, cleaned everything up, refitted with new stem seals, otherwise head in excellent condition as were con rod bearings etc which points to no lack of oil during its life.

CCN recommends halving all makers recommended intervals at least unless usage absolutely perfect, its a view i share though don't profess any great technical knowledge personally, he also mentions ignoring the alleged lifetime (ie till warranty expires) oils in transmissions, something else i do.

He also talks of oil quality at length, ie not go as cheap as chips with unheard of makes, but not spend fortunes on the stuff either.

Edited by gordonbennet on 18/03/2024 at 13:32

any - why change the oil early every time? - Chris M

Thanks GB.

10k oil changes would be considered more than satisfactory in the UK. If the excessive wear was only seen on two cylinders with head and crank being okay, wouldn't that suggest a localised oil starvation issue?

any - why change the oil early every time? - gordonbennet

Thanks GB.

10k oil changes would be considered more than satisfactory in the UK. If the excessive wear was only seen on two cylinders with head and crank being okay, wouldn't that suggest a localised oil starvation issue?

It looked more like carbonised oil stuck in the oil control ring grooves.

Interestingly CCn did comment on there being oil cooling jets drilled through the conrods, without rewatching i'm sure he mentioned these can get blocked with carbon too.

I'm extremely wary of carbon issues due to the engine in the Landcruiser, its one of the few things can kill my engine, blow-by from a leaking injector seat causes carbon build up which ends up blocking the oil pick up strainer, hence why i leave the oil dripping for several hours and shine a torch up the drain hole, oil pick up is directly above so anyone in the know with one of these engines checks the oil strainer each service, of course my engine isn't alone in this, its an issue also shared by wet belt engines where belt debris can clog the strainer.

any - why change the oil early every time? - Chris M

"It looked more like carbonised oil stuck in the oil control ring grooves."

Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge than me can suggest why that would only affect two pistons rather than all of them.

any - why change the oil early every time? - Andrew-T

<< Around 120k miles it started using oil and @ 150 or so the consumption worsened ... >>

Reminds me of the years I spent with my 1963 Morris 1100 in Canada, with long trips around the States. IIRC I got the car with about 20K on the clock and by about 50K I needed to add oil every time I got fuel, I think because of failing stem seals. Problem was that in the US they dig the stuff up, and it was so cheap that no financial case could be made for curing the problem !

any - why change the oil early every time? - Steveieb

I remember the original HJ reporting that in Thailand where he spends a lot of time, there are car lube centres where you can get an oil and filter change while you wait.

He recommended this for his beloved Honda Jazz/ Fit

any - why change the oil early every time? - John F

Very curious. Spotless head, mirror finish on bearing, yet 'divot in cylinder wall' in two cylinders! We are expected to believe the faultless service history and absence of any episode of very low oil level.

A US quart is just less than a litre. A quart every 1000 miles is less than VW's tolerance of a litre every 1000km, but '2-3 quarts every 1000 miles at 150,000 miles' is indeed excessive. I still have my service record for our old Focus 1.6 Zetec, and at 130 - 140,000 miles it was giving around 3,500 miles per litre. Oil was changed every 10-12k using the cheapest 5-30 semisynthetic available. Our two previous family cars had similar 10-12k cheap oil changes and at nearly 200,000 miles (Passat GL5) and over 240,000 miles (Passat 2.0GL) they used oil well within tolerance when traded in. So I think changing oil every 6 months/5000 miles is bonkers unless you need the engine to last for 500,000 miles - or are using cheap American oil!

any - why change the oil early every time? - Xileno

I've always thought it would be interesting to have some stats on the causes of vehicle scr@ppage. I suspect the number of cars scr@pped due to engine problems that could be attributed to lubrication is tiny. Far more likely to be something else such as a cambelt or expensive electronic part or good old rust.

Edited by Xileno on 18/03/2024 at 18:18

any - why change the oil early every time? - corax

I've seen a few of the Car Care Nut's videos on hybrids recently. Very useful and interesting. I wonder what he would think of the extended service interval of 20k and longlife oil.

any - why change the oil early every time? - Andrew-T

I've always thought it would be interesting to have some stats on the causes of vehicle scr@ppage. I suspect the number of cars scr@pped due to engine problems that could be attributed to lubrication is tiny..

Some years ago large numbers of decent care were scarpped for no reason at all, except to protect the motor industry ....

any - why change the oil early every time? - edlithgow

So I think changing oil every 6 months/5000 miles is bonkers unless you need the engine to last for 500,000 miles - or are using cheap American oil!

Some support for our rabid anti-American oil-ism?

"Several bench tests are also important in defining European performance standards; their requirements are more demanding than those in North America mainly to meet the shear
stability requirements of vehicles which have engines with integral gear boxes."

I suppose those vehicles are mostly gone, but the requirement stayed in the spec. They used a Peugeot 204 as a test rig.

(Stambaugh and Kinker Chapt 5 p172.Chemistry and Technology of Lubricants 3rd Edition Mortier et al 2010)

AKA Everything You Didn't Want To Know About Oil And Didn't Ask


any - why change the oil early every time? - Metropolis.
Have not had time to watch the video but I know Lexus stipulate a 1 year/10,000 mile service interval. Must be a shock to the system for BMW switchers, but then so will the lack of need for warranty repairs!
any - why change the oil early every time? - TiffanyForbes

Changing your car's oil more often than what the manual says might feel like too much, but it can really help your car last longer and run better.

any - why change the oil early every time? - Terry W

Average cost of oil and filter change is ~£100 - depends on car and oil spec to some extent.

If during the (say) 15 year life of a car the oil is changed an extra 15 times over that recommended by the manufacturer the total lifetime cost will be £1500.

Major failure with significant rebuild may cost £2000+. Engine replacement could be £5000+.

A bit Clint Eastwood - "do you feel lucky". More frequent oil changes will do good rather than damage, the additional annual cost is annoying but mostly inconsequential, the cost of a £2000++ bill at any time for failure will sting a bit.

Manufacturers probably set service intervals based on what will minimise service costs for users of new cars with unworn components, not part worn 5-15 year old vehicles with 50-200k on the clock.

On balance - more frequent oil changes is probably better than fewer.

any - why change the oil early every time? - Andrew-T

Manufacturers probably set service intervals based on what will minimise service costs for users of new cars with unworn components,

I thought it was fairly common knowledge (or at least presumption) that service intervals were chosen so that fleet buyers never had to do any servicing during their ownership ?

any - why change the oil early every time? - edlithgow

Hmm...goes on a bit, and rather poor camera work. The "money shot" of the engine damage, in particular, is very unclear and so not very informative.

No real argument with the message though I'd say his "cost of job spread over 60 months should be less than half the new car payment" guideline is no more or less arbitrary than any other that fails to acknowledge how much worse the new car is likely to be.,

I'd want my new short block to be a bit better wrapped

I'd attribute this failure to c***py oil as well as overextended OCI's. I don't mean "cheap oil". I mean that, IMO, the specified oil is likely to be much less than ideal, but of course you probably dont have any option if you want to maintain the warranty.

Clogged oil rings tend to be due to viscosity improver degradation products, stuff a bit like synthetic rubber pencil eraser. He mentions 0W20 oil, which will have a high VII loading in order to render the low viscosity base oil usable .

Use of an oil with more actual lubricant in it, say a 15W40 truck oil, which will also have more decoking detergent in it, would probably have avoided this problem.

Running an old car in Taiwan I didn't have to worry about low temperatures, warranty, or marginal mpg differences, and ran a blend of Mobil Delvac 15W40 and CPC SAE 40, for higher viscosity and lower VII loading, since the SAE40 has no VII. Cleared the initially visible varnish right out.

If the cops hadn't got the car I would probably have switched to straight SAE40, since Carrefour had stopped stocking the Delvac. This should have been OK in Taiwan temperatures.

Edited by edlithgow on 21/03/2024 at 01:03