Honda Jazz 2013 - Cambelt versus Chain, but why?

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Mon 11 Dec 2023 09:32
Honda Jazz 2013 - Cambelt versus Chain, but why? - argybargy

Morning all

Not posted here for a while, so good to be back, albeit probably briefly.

I still have my 2013 plate Jazz after almost six years, and with just 50k on the clock no intention of changing it just yet. Got used to the rather lumpy ride and it no longer bothers me that I'm tailgated by everything from milk floats to farm tractors, even though the Jazz is well capable of keeping up with the rest of the traffic.

The other day I happened to be speaking to a family member who owns an 18 plate Civic, bought new from a Honda dealer. He told me that he'd just had the cambelt in his car replaced at Honda's expense, though I can't recall exactly why. That got me thinking about my car because although the mileage is low, its now over 10 years old. So I did some research and discovered that the Jazz has a chain rather than a belt, which was a big relief, but also made me wonder why the presumably much more expensive Civic has a more fragile belt

Is it common for manufacturers to vary the use of belts and chains across their ranges?

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Mon 11 Dec 2023 09:48
Honda Jazz 2013 - Cambelt versus Chain, but why? - elekie&a/c doctor
In the current strive for economy and emission levels , several makers have gone down the route of running the cam belt in the engine oil “bio” systems . Ford ecoboost, Peugeots/ Citroen with the puretech motors . 3 cylinder, usually with a turbo . Sadly , Honda have followed suit and now are in the “chocolate” engine club . Interestingly, from about 2019 , Fords have reverted to a chain drive , but still use a wet belt for the oil pump .
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Mon 11 Dec 2023 11:22
Honda Jazz 2013 - Cambelt versus Chain, but why? - badbusdriver

Belts aren't actually fragile. As mentioned above there are quite a few instances of modern engines using a wet belt system having big problems. But if the engine is designed properly with a belt which is easy to change, it is no trouble at all as long as changes are done as and when needed.

Plus, chains are not the holy grail of reliability some think. There have been quite a few chain driven engines which have had problems and have since reverted back to belt (VAG TSI units for example).

Ignoring reliability, belt driven engines are also usually quieter.

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Mon 11 Dec 2023 12:12
Honda Jazz 2013 - Cambelt versus Chain, but why? - John F

For small car engines there are pros and cons for both belts and chains. Neither can be shown to have a clear advantage, assuming the proper modern materials are used in their manufacture (especially for belts-in-oil) and correct oil is used and changed regularly. What is often more relevant is the reliability of the other things in the set up. A perfectly good belt can be destroyed by a failing tension pulley. A failed chain tensioner can also result in a wrecked engine, as can a disintegrating plastic chain guide. Some Porsche owners had huge bills from an unsatisfactory intermediate bearing for a sprocket between the crank and cam sprockets some years ago. For newly designed timing set-ups with no reliability history it's still a case of 'are you feeling lucky'?

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Mon 11 Dec 2023 22:26
Honda Jazz 2013 - Cambelt versus Chain, but why? - Metropolis.
A non-interference easy to change cambelt is probably the best all-round solution, not sure why most switched to interference designs.

If I recall correctly, with the Lexus LS400, the early version is non interference, whilst the later version of the same engine is interference!
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Tue 12 Dec 2023 09:42
Honda Jazz 2013 - Cambelt versus Chain, but why? - RT
A non-interference easy to change cambelt is probably the best all-round solution, not sure why most switched to interference designs. If I recall correctly, with the Lexus LS400, the early version is non interference, whilst the later version of the same engine is interference!

Non-interference engines are simple to design and make if they're 2-valves per cylinder but that's not particularly good for power or emissions - 4-valves per cylinder are much better for power and emissions but difficult to make non-interference.

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Tue 12 Dec 2023 21:02
Honda Jazz 2013 - Cambelt versus Chain, but why? - Metropolis.
A non-interference easy to change cambelt is probably the best all-round solution, not sure why most switched to interference designs. If I recall correctly, with the Lexus LS400, the early version is non interference, whilst the later version of the same engine is interference!

Non-interference engines are simple to design and make if they're 2-valves per cylinder but that's not particularly good for power or emissions - 4-valves per cylinder are much better for power and emissions but difficult to make non-interference.

Many thanks for the explanation RT. I figured that if even Toyota switch to an interference design their then-flagship (excluding the Japanese domestic market where they had the v12 Toyota Century) there must be a valid reason, they tend not to over complicate if they can avoid it..
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Mon 11 Dec 2023 18:04
Honda Jazz 2013 - Cambelt versus Chain, but why? - Sprice

This will be a 10th gen Civic, the non-Type R petrols came with a 1 litre 3 cylinder which has the BIO engine, and the 1.5 litre 4 cylinder which uses a chain (as did all their engines for the 8th and 9th gen cars).

Why Honda used a belt for the 1 litre is a mystery, especially as there have been instances of them failing early, plus it's a complicated ~£1200 job to change it every 6 years or so. Apparently the 1 litre is no more economical than the 1.5 but has a lot less grunt (127-ish bhp vs 180-ish bhp).

Edited by Sprice on 11/12/2023 at 18:11

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Mon 11 Dec 2023 19:21
Honda Jazz 2013 - Cambelt versus Chain, but why? - argybargy

Thanks for the replies. Like other motorists in the modern era, I occasionally heard horror stories about what happens when a timing belt breaks. Immobilised cars, stranded drivers, mega-expensive garage bills etc, so it was kind of drummed into me that cambelts were a catastrophe waiting to happen. Because of that anxiety I tended to have belts replaced earlier than scheduled, including the belt on a 2007 Focus. On that occasion I ended up with an engine that made strange noises, because the mechanic had overtightened the new belt.

As far as chains are concerned, I had the timing chains on a Primera changed because they were becoming slightly noisy, only to end up with an oil leak in a previously bone dry engine. When I returned the car so they could rectify the leak ( they never managed to do so) the mechanic admitted that he'd changed the chain on a Micra but never on a Primera, and that's why he didn't manage to reassemble it without leaks.

Notwithstanding any of the above, I'm still relieved that my trusty Jazz has a chain and not a belt.

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