Driving on nearly worn-out summer tyres.
My all-season tyres allowed me to drive up to Holme village a few years back when buses weren't running, I have been able to drive past stuck 4 x 4s on the 1 in 10 gradient out of our estate.
Apart from the advantage of all-season tyres, in the 1960s and 1970s when we had snow every winter, I learned to cope when I had a Zephyr 6. I had also had three sessions on a skid pan in Cortinas and Austin Westminsters, front-drive cars tend to be better in snow but it does need the right technique.
Practice makes a big difference, but not much opportunity these days (a side effect of milder winters.
|
Driving on nearly worn-out summer tyres.
My all-season tyres allowed me to drive up to Holme village a few years back when buses weren't running, I have been able to drive past stuck 4 x 4s on the 1 in 10 gradient out of our estate.
Apart from the advantage of all-season tyres, in the 1960s and 1970s when we had snow every winter, I learned to cope when I had a Zephyr 6. I had also had three sessions on a skid pan in Cortinas and Austin Westminsters, front-drive cars tend to be better in snow but it does need the right technique.
Practice makes a big difference, but not much opportunity these days (a side effect of milder winters.
Too many people don't realise that their car shod on wide, low profile (summer) tyres, often (as kiss says) significantly worn (rarely checked, I mean, that's what MOTs are for, right? ;-) will not work well, if at all on ice and snow.
Even less so if you aren't light on the throttle and brakes, manoeuvring slower and earlier, changing up earlier or starting off in 2nd, etc. Not exactly something anyone learns at 17 or in a pass-plus course, is it (maybe it should be)?
|
|
|
|
I too learned snow driving in the 70’s, in my case in snowy Aberdeenshire. Old 2WD, fwd cars coped pretty well partly because they were lighter with narrower tyres and it was easier to get the necessary feel.
It was normal in the winter in country areas to help strangers out and form a convoy of cars and pushers to get through bad bits.
However you can't beat the laws of physics and with experience comes respect for conditions. As the skidding instructor said on a course I went on “if you drive faster on the way back today you’ve missed the point”.
|
|
Maybe a time to mandate all season tyres (if not winter tyres) during Nov-Mar like they do in other parts of Europe.
|
|
Don't see the problem, those who haven't prepared themselves or their vehicles of who lack common sense will get stuck, the other sort will get past them or find alternative routes and get where they need to, hopefully the former will be wiser after reaping some entirey forseeable consequences.
|
Don't see the problem, those who haven't prepared themselves or their vehicles of who lack common sense will get stuck, the other sort will get past them or find alternative routes and get where they need to, hopefully the former will be wiser after reaping some entirey forseeable consequences.
Can`t say I have had any problems in FWD cars, London in 91 was the worst year we had and got about ok, 63 was worse than that but I wasn`t old enough to drive and everyone walked everywhere
only cars I did and couldn`t get around in was the old Triumph 2000 which I had 2 in a row auto box packed up on first, manual box went wrong on second, though I did fix it but the snow finished the diff off so I sc***ped it, they didn`t seem very good in the snow yet the modern Civic will go through almost anything without complaining
|
|
|
|
Maybe a time to mandate all season tyres (if not winter tyres) during Nov-Mar like they do in other parts of Europe.
No way does the weather, at least round here, get anywhere near sufficiently cold, icy bound or snowy to justify that.
Since I jacked in full time work and commuting ten years ago we've had maybe two episodes where there's been sufficient snow cover to make roads difficult, never mind impassable. Ice can be an issue if you don't know which roads are not, or at least not routinely, gritted. But if you know they're passable with care.
Flooding when heavy rain saturates the clay soil and then run off collects in the road is more of a problem. Even then it's usually passable provided you know and avoid the low spots and those places where the Nene is prone to go over its banks.
|
|
My MB E320 CDI auto is completely useless in dealing with snowy weather. But it hasn’t been tested in the last few years
Luckily my Mk 2 RAV 4 ialways on hand just in case .
|
|
|
|
|
|
in the 1960s and 1970s when we had snow every winter, I learned to cope when I had a Zephyr 6.
My dad had a mk iV Zephyr v6 back in the late 70's that was a "pig" to drive in snow/ice. mind you back then it had a nickname of the "flying pig".
I'm a fan of all season tyres these days and have Michelin Crossclimates on my Superb and Goodyear Vector tyres on Mrs BJ's Panda. We had a fair bit of snow overnight and the Panda proved amazing in the white stuff today.
Edited by Big John on 03/12/2023 at 19:54
|
in the 1960s and 1970s when we had snow every winter, I learned to cope when I had a Zephyr 6.
My dad had a mk iV Zephyr v6 back in the late 70's that was a "pig" to drive in snow/ice. mind you back then it had a nickname of the "flying pig"
That surprises me, i had the Zodiac mk 4 (after a mk 3 Zodiac) which proved a superb vehicle which i remember fondly, it handled remarkably well on its 185 x 13 tyres with a lovely soft tyres and proved an excellent tow car for my banger racing exploits, it also provided much warm comfort for extra curricular activities in my mispent youth :-) being the early version '66 regd it sat on 13's, facelift models upped to 'massive' 14" wheels and being the executive model had those amazingly thick and comfortable leather armchairs up front...which full reclined...sn*****.
Paid £80 for it sometime around 1973/4, those were the days, two weeks wages bought you a quite decent low mileage car.
If you recall the spare wheel sat in front of the radiator under that extremely long bonnet not helping wth drive axle weight, my boot was always full of tackle tools lump hammers jacks tow chains etc so maybe the weight distribution on mine was slightly better.
|
|
We had a new 205 diesel back in the winter of '87, almost unstoppable with its heavy torquey diesel engine over the driving wheels, combined with a manual box and sensible tyres. The best was brother's BX as in addition to those features you added the hydropneumatic suspension to raise the height and the handbrake worked on the front wheels to act as a crude limited slip diff.
|
|
When you live in a heavily populated car dependent country don't be surprised if bad weather causes disruption.
Different tyres, 4x4, FWD v RWD etc etc discussion is futile when all it takes is a single HGV or bus to block a route and cause gridlock.
|
When you live in a heavily populated car dependent country don't be surprised if bad weather causes disruption.
Different tyres, 4x4, FWD v RWD etc etc discussion is futile when all it takes is a single HGV or bus to block a route and cause gridlock.
Yep - back in 2003 when we had the last 'great white out' in the South of England, I was working in St. Albans and was stuck driving back home to nearby town where my parents lived, not because my Micra was no up to the job in snow (it was ok, even on summer tyres), but because several other vehicles, and especially vans and HGVs (and an ambulance later on) got stuck on the big hill halfway home.
Eventually the HGV got going again (a sack under the back wheels jobbie or similar), but a normally 15-20 minute journey took 90 that day.
Many colleagues left work early, got stuck going home and turned back, waiting for the 'rush hour' traffic to subside before trying again.
Many people were stranded overnight on the M11 in similar circumstances due to a handful of vehicles blocking the road.
Still, good skill can often negate the bad conditions, as this infamous video (likely been shown before here) of a bus driver negotiating a hilly tight turn demonstrates:
youtu.be/4Pcdg9m7Dao?si=fF2PwnBRZE19CIZz
|
Yep - back in 2003 when we had the last 'great white out' in the South of England, I was working in St. Albans and was stuck driving back home to nearby town where my parents lived
Think I got caught in that too.
Lived where I do now but due to the vagaries of UK rail franchising I was commuting via Milton Keynes rather than the nominally closer Northampton.
Train was bang on time at MK but getting to the car involved wading through several inches of light dry snow. Becuase of the way the cookie had crumbled everybody working in MK had left their work at around 16:00 and, before the ploughs and gritters could be deployed the City was all but gridlocked. Took me well over an hour to get from the (then) car park opposite the Santander building to the A5 at Portway.
The A5 itself had been ploughed/gritted and, with less snow further north, I was home in another 30 minutes.
|
|
|
|
That surprises me, i had the Zodiac mk 4 (after a mk 3 Zodiac) which proved a superb vehicle which i remember fondly, it handled remarkably well on its 185 x 13 tyres with a lovely soft tyres and proved an excellent tow car for my banger racing exploits, it also provided much warm comfort for extra curricular activities in my mispent youth :-) being the early version '66 regd it sat on 13's, facelift models upped to 'massive' 14" wheels and being the executive model had those amazingly thick and comfortable leather armchairs up front...which full reclined...sn*****.
Paid £80 for it sometime around 1973/4, those were the days, two weeks wages bought you a quite decent low mileage car.
If you recall the spare wheel sat in front of the radiator under that extremely long bonnet not helping wth drive axle weight, my boot was always full of tackle tools lump hammers jacks tow chains etc so maybe the weight distribution on mine was slightly better.
Actually ignoring a few mechanical quirks (those rear brake calipers for 1, fibre cam wheel and self destructing hex oil pump drive) I really rather liked the mkiv infact we had a Zephyr then a Zodiac. It was an early adopter of independent rear suspension. Very comfortable and refined for the day. Rather thirsty even for those days. But I avoided driving when icy, you simply couldn't get any power on the road (sack of spuds might have helped) , our underpowered 1.3 mkII Cortina with skinny tyres, no brake servo or power steering was better in those conditions.
Edited by Big John on 03/12/2023 at 22:30
|
Actually ignoring a few mechanical quirks (those rear brake calipers for 1, fibre cam wheel and self destructing hex oil pump drive) I really rather liked the mkiv infact we had a Zephyr then a Zodiac. It was an early adopter of independent rear suspension. Very comfortable and refined for the day. Rather thirsty even for those days. But I avoided driving when icy, you simply couldn't get any power on the road (sack of spuds might have helped) , our underpowered 1.3 mkII Cortina with skinny tyres, no brake servo or power steering was better in those conditions.
I'd forgotten about those Lucas Girling swinging caliper rear brakes, tended to leak given their normal position open to all weathers and the self adjusting mechanism seize solid, the same rear brakes were fitted to Rover P6 but inboard beside the rear diff, made them awkward to work on but out of the worse weather they gave much less trouble....you could buy all the parts for such brakes individually in those days so i became quite handy with that particular brake.
IIRC the rear suspension was carried over Granadas too, a good design, fronts were McPhereson strut a carry over from the Mk3.
One weak point was the fuse box, fuses were those horrid bullet shaped things with pointed ends common at the time, in time they needed to be stripped out, the holders and multi plugs all cleaned up and reassembled, or as happened to me one night all the lights went out on a dark road and i had to sort out those fuses by the light of a feeble torch powered by a couple of nearly dead U2s, not enjoyable but a lesson learned to pre empt such things by good regular maintenance.
Before the Zodiac i had a V4 Zephyr MK4, that really was a PITA and wish i'd never laid eyes on it, manual with column change, you name it it went wrong, got so fed up of replacing head gaskets that i ended up torqueing the heads down with a 3 ft scaffold pole, never failed again...the same 2 litre engine in Ford Transits was lower compression and the head gaskets rarely failed.
As for the oil pump drive, the only failure i knew of personally was on my then bosses 3 litre Granada estate, those being the days of 12 months warranties on new cars, i picked his car up on a trailer and brought it back home to the workshop for rebuild.
Edited by gordonbennet on 03/12/2023 at 23:57
|
|
Learned to drive in Macduff, Moray Firth Coast in 1960s. As student drove an 803cc Austin A30 Rwd car with rear winter tyres, Never got stuck although I refused to drive on unploughed roads/: well it was impossible when the snow was usually 0.5 meters deep.
Now have an auto Jazz with Michelin CCs on: no issues in snow . But no point in driving when all the people with excrement for brains get stuck and 5,000rpm on worn summer tyres gets you nowhere uphill and into ditches downhill.
If going anywhere lengthy in snow, check list is; shovel, carpet (for under wheels), hot drinks, chocolate, wellies, thick socks, gloves, hat, rugs, more rugs and mobile phone charger and tank full of fuel. Lots stuck for hours with nothing to eat/drink. A toolkit is standard as well as a jack, wheelbrace etc..
If we had a real emergency - say no power for a week, I shudder to think of teh shambles.. most people are not adapted to survive .
|
|
|
One weak point was the fuse box, fuses were those horrid bullet shaped things with pointed ends common at the time, in time they needed to be stripped out, the holders and multi plugs all cleaned up and reassembled, or as happened to me one night all the lights went out on a dark road and i had to sort out those fuses by the light of a feeble torch powered by a couple of nearly dead U2s, not enjoyable but a lesson learned to pre empt such things by good regular maintenance.
Interesting to know that old Fords suffered from that problem. I had the same with my Alfasud which I blamed on Italian electrics. Sometimes the headlights would be erratic, and I'd have to get out and turn the fuse (same type) in it's mountings to sort it.
|
Interesting to know that old Fords suffered from that problem. I had the same with my Alfasud which I blamed on Italian electrics. Sometimes the headlights would be erratic, and I'd have to get out and turn the fuse (same type) in it's mountings to sort it.
Sadly they sometimes got beyond just moving the fuses in their site to clean the point of contact, on both Mk4s i had to remove the complete fuse blocks and clean not only the fuse points but also the multi plugs before everything was working again.
Luckily cars of that era were a lot easier to work on, Fords in particular, last time i dismantled a complete dashboard was on sons 51 plate Seat Toledo when the heater radiator sprung a leak, that must have been the first part fitted to the bare shell, never again
Getting back to the Cumbria thread (sorry folks), to counter the note above about HGV's blocking things up, there have been times when i've managed to get dozens of stuck vehicles of all sorts cars vans trucks buses in an HGV, one memorable journey was in a wagon and drag car transporter 5 axles (one raised) with one drive axle, yet it dug in and got me home, that was that fateful night many years ago when the M11 Cambs section froze to hard packed black ice following heavy snow, wasn't anything i did other than keep it moving, the remould drive axle tyres despite appearances were obviously of a suitable pattern and compound that suited those conditions, didn't really expect it to move at all...the secret IMHO is knowing where you are going and being able to judge which alternative routes everyone else will be avoiding.
Interestingly the drive and steer axle tyres used on the vehicles i drive at work are all three peaks embossed winter rated, be interesting to see how they perform when the time comes, another couple of tricks involving weight transferring via air suspension up my sleeve to test out too :-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I had a few Pandas and can vouch for their ability in the white stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
