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Door handles - jchinuk

I am becoming mildly concerned about the growing use of 'flush' door handles that only pop out when the car is unlocked.

The simple, but still annoying, problem will be the damn things freezing and not popping out when required.

The more serious problem will be when someone is unconscious in the car after an accident, but rescuers cannot open the doors because there are no handles to pull. In that situation, the car's battery might be isolated too, for safety, so the doors cannot be released.

Perhaps I'm over thinking this, but it seems a flaw.

Door handles - badbusdriver

There aren't currently that many with the pop out handles, so just don't buy one.

Not sure because I haven't looked into it, but I'd have thought if the car "knows" its been in an accident, the handles would assume the open position in the interests of safety. I would also assume some kind of failsafe in the event of a loss of electrical power.

Door handles - bathtub tom

Reminds me of a tale (perhaps on this forum) of someone who parked their car close to a wall. On eventually returning, they found the battery was flat and wouldn't unlock the doors. No problem, except the one keyhole was on the side next to the wall and there wasn't enough space to open the door far enough to release the bonnet to access the battery to connect jump leads.

I believe it was a non-British car and the keyhole was in the nearside door.

Door handles - Bolt

I am becoming mildly concerned about the growing use of 'flush' door handles that only pop out when the car is unlocked.

The simple, but still annoying, problem will be the damn things freezing and not popping out when required.

The more serious problem will be when someone is unconscious in the car after an accident, but rescuers cannot open the doors because there are no handles to pull. In that situation, the car's battery might be isolated too, for safety, so the doors cannot be released.

Perhaps I'm over thinking this, but it seems a flaw.

I wonder if you watched a You Tube video on the Cybertruck?, the person showing the motor mentioned the same thing and said of his concerns about this, as if people are unconscious inside, even though they have inside manual override, in that state they cannot open the doors, according to makers if external lock is iced up you can hit the switch harder to make it work, though in America some winters are really harsh so ice may be harder than steel ie wont break the ice

I consider this a flaw as well even though its said they work fine, though no override was mentioned on the Cybertruck externaly so don`t know on that

Door handles - elekie&a/c doctor
One of those technical items that we did without before and really don’t need now . All they do is go wrong and are expensive to fix . If the makers wanted flush door handles , they should have used those from the Morris Marina .
Door handles - Adampr
One of those technical items that we did without before and really don’t need now . All they do is go wrong and are expensive to fix . If the makers wanted flush door handles , they should have used those from the Morris Marina .

Absolutely. We had a Lancia Gamma when I was a kid. I was in awe of its flush door handles. Good job really, as the rest of was junk.

Door handles - badbusdriver
One of those technical items that we did without before and really don’t need now . All they do is go wrong and are expensive to fix . If the makers wanted flush door handles , they should have used those from the Morris Marina .

Absolutely. We had a Lancia Gamma when I was a kid. I was in awe of its flush door handles. Good job really, as the rest of was junk.

Sad to hear that, I love the Gamma!

But absolutely agree the pop out door handles is a fix to a problem which doesn't exist. Just designers putting style ahead of everything else, the usual!.

Edited by badbusdriver on 02/12/2023 at 11:52

Door handles - movilogo

Yes, one of those things which are solutions to problems those don't exist.

Right now you can choose but there will be a time when every manufacturer will adopt this.

Similar to keyless entry cars. Once it was novelty but now you will struggle to find a car without keyless entry. Non keyless cars typically tend to be base trims only so if you want fancy features it will be bundled upon. :-(

Door handles - Engineer Andy

Yes, one of those things which are solutions to problems those don't exist.

Right now you can choose but there will be a time when every manufacturer will adopt this.

Similar to keyless entry cars. Once it was novelty but now you will struggle to find a car without keyless entry. Non keyless cars typically tend to be base trims only so if you want fancy features it will be bundled upon. :-(

Apparently you can ask for a no-cost 'downgrade' from keyless on some makes/models, but that does mean you have to buy a made-to-order car, rather than standard spec, which probably means less or no discount.

What would be nice is if you could just take a car to a main dealer and have the system disabled (and re-enabled if you wish, say when you sell it) during the service at a minimum of expense.

For the few upsides, it has so many significant downsides. Personally, I think that many modern 'features' on cars are just added to justify the exorbitant pricing.

Door handles - badbusdriver

Right now you can choose but there will be a time when every manufacturer will adopt this.

Can't see it becoming that widespread on anything other than high spec cars of above average price. Yes, the cost of these systems will come down as they become more common, but still going to be a sizeable chunk of (ultimately) unnecessary expense.

Plus, if any of the fears mentioned above re emergency access after an accident results in deaths, pop out door handles will probably become obsolete fairly quickly.

Door handles - movilogo

Apparently you can ask for a no-cost 'downgrade' from keyless on some makes/models,

and insurers will probably consider it as modification or interfering with a safety system and thus increase premium :-(

Some progress is good but some are bad. Trouble is often manufacturers can't foresee how public will accept something.

Frameless doors another such thing. I never understood why some expensive cars have that feature. Nothing wrong with having doors with frames!

Door handles - RT

Apparently you can ask for a no-cost 'downgrade' from keyless on some makes/models,

and insurers will probably consider it as modification or interfering with a safety system and thus increase premium :-(

Some progress is good but some are bad. Trouble is often manufacturers can't foresee how public will accept something.

Frameless doors another such thing. I never understood why some expensive cars have that feature. Nothing wrong with having doors with frames!

Having frameless doors is usually accompanied by having more strength in the roof, according to Subaru which makes the car safer.

Door handles - Heidfirst

What would be nice is if you could just take a car to a main dealer and have the system disabled (and re-enabled if you wish, say when you sell it) during the service at a minimum of expense.

For the few upsides, it has so many significant downsides. Personally, I think that many modern 'features' on cars are just added to justify the exorbitant pricing.

I don't now what it is like with the latest generation Toyota's but in my 2012MY Avensis T-Spirit you could simply disable the keyless system yourself through the infomation system & there was a mechanical key within the fob.

(when I changed cars in 2017 I deliberately went for a grade without keyless - it was convenient but the security concerns at the time ...)

I imagine that aerodynamics & improved fuel efficiency are also part of the drive to flush handles.

Edited by Heidfirst on 04/12/2023 at 11:51

Door handles - Andrew-T

<< I imagine that aerodynamics & improved fuel efficiency are also part of the drive to flush handles. >>

I wonder just how trivial must be the aerodynamic drag of a few door handles ... I certainly doubt it could have a measurable effect on real-world fuel consumption - unless the handles are particularly prominent of course :-)

Perhaps it is more to do with impact safety on nearby pedestrians ?

Edited by Andrew-T on 04/12/2023 at 12:46

Door handles - Heidfirst

At least one paper has been published arc.aiaa.org/doi/epdf/10.2514/6.2014-2013 & of course it has also been suggested that door mirrors are removed or replaced by smaller rear facing camera bulges for similar reasons.

It has also been suggested that the no doubt small aerodynamic improvement is more important for EVs (where range anxiety exists & which take appreciable time to recharge) than for ICEs.

Edited by Heidfirst on 05/12/2023 at 12:32

Door handles - bathtub tom

At least one paper has been published arc.aiaa.org/doi/epdf/10.2514/6.2014-2013 & of course it has also been suggested that door mirrors are removed or replaced by smaller rear facing camera bulges for similar reasons.

It has also been suggested that the no doubt small aerodynamic improvement is more important for EVs (where range anxiety exists & which take appreciable time to recharge) than for ICEs.

Have you looked closely at modern HGVs (or whatever they're called now). They mostly seem to have cameras instead of mirrors. I can't imagine the improvement of aerodynamics over the barn door front would be much advantage, so perhaps there's other reasons?

Door handles - Adampr
One of those technical items that we did without before and really don’t need now . All they do is go wrong and are expensive to fix . If the makers wanted flush door handles , they should have used those from the Morris Marina .

Absolutely. We had a Lancia Gamma when I was a kid. I was in awe of its flush door handles. Good job really, as the rest of was junk.

Sad to hear that, I love the Gamma!

But absolutely agree the pop out door handles is a fix to a problem which doesn't exist. Just designers putting style ahead of everything else, the usual!.

It had its good points, I'm sure. It just broke down ALL the time. One of the camshafts wore down after a year and just became a metal stick.

Door handles - Andrew-T

If this potential problem is as severe as suggested, I would have thought that any car designed for the European market would have allowed for it, as temps get a lot lower in central Europe than here. Brits tend to panic as soon as water freezes.

Takes me back 60 years, when as new arrivals in western Canada we drove a Morris 1100 at what they used to call 'below-zero' then, meaning Fahrenheit of course, where 'zero' is about -18° Celsius. Our car had a block heater, which needed about half an hour to make the car startable. Steering got rather stiff, but otherwise the car didn't mind too much. Did make me wonder why British cold weather caused such difficulties ... :-)

Door handles - mcb100
‘ The simple, but still annoying, problem will be the damn things freezing and not popping out when required.’

Megane E-Tech has a ‘hammer’ function if it senses it’s frozen. It’ll vibrate itself out from the flush position.
In the event of an accident, the handles pop out. I’d assume everything else does the same.
Door handles - corax
‘ The simple, but still annoying, problem will be the damn things freezing and not popping out when required.’ Megane E-Tech has a ‘hammer’ function if it senses it’s frozen. It’ll vibrate itself out from the flush position. In the event of an accident, the handles pop out. I’d assume everything else does the same.

Great when it's new, but a few years down the line...

"Sorry, we couldn't get the occupants out because the pop out mechanism for the door handle failed".

I suppose they would have to resort to cutting, but it's time wasted if there is potential for a fire to start.

Door handles - Maxime.
‘ The simple, but still annoying, problem will be the damn things freezing and not popping out when required.’ Megane E-Tech has a ‘hammer’ function if it senses it’s frozen. It’ll vibrate itself out from the flush position. In the event of an accident, the handles pop out. I’d assume everything else does the same.

Great when it's new, but a few years down the line...

"Sorry, we couldn't get the occupants out because the pop out mechanism for the door handle failed".

I suppose they would have to resort to cutting, but it's time wasted if there is potential for a fire to start.

Thats why we get rid of at end og warranty,

Door handles - Ian_SW

Given most cars now cars auto-lock when you start moving, I wouldn't have thought the failure mode of the locks not releasing would any more or less likely than the "pop out" handle not popping out.

Personally I think those pop out door handles look awful when unlocked, as though something is broken. However, can't they be opened by pushing in the opposite end of the handle to where you're meant to pull even if it hasn't popped out.

Like most design fads, I suspect they'll soon go out of favour. Given they are mostly a feature of "premium" SUVs which are the size of a Transit van and have the aerodynamic efficiency of a house brick, I can't believe they are primarily there for fuel saving.

They must also help the profits of the chip/scratch repair people from repairing ring damage - or am I old fashioned for using the handle to close the door rather than pushing it anywhere....

Door handles - badbusdriver

Have you looked closely at modern HGVs (or whatever they're called now). They mostly seem to have cameras instead of mirrors. I can't imagine the improvement of aerodynamics over the barn door front would be much advantage, so perhaps there's other reasons?

(LGV's)

Yes, I have. And no, they don't.

Granted they are becoming more common, but we are nowhere near the point that most have them (cameras rather than mirrors).

1, trucks cover massively more miles than cars, so even a small improvement in mpg is probably going to be worth doing for the benefit over the working life of the truck.

2, the mirrors fitted to trucks are huge, so the difference is going to be magnified compared to mirror vs camera on a car.

3, also because of their size, mirrors on a truck are going to be fairly vulnerable to damage. The camera is much smaller in size and (usually) mounted up at roof level.

Not sure, but I'd also imagine the cost of replacement for camera vs mirrors on a truck will be much closer (than in a car) because of the sheer size of the mirror.

Door handles - gordonbennet

Thankfully i haven't driven a truck with cameras instead of mirrors, and i won't be, my company won't have them, they were trialled via a demonstrator and universally condemned with unprintable words.

Field and depth of vision poor, at night hopeless because the rate of LED flickr and camera refresh rate combine to make everything flickering all the, bad enough with the required all round safety cameras required for (London so far) urban use, as rain droplets form and fall off it triggers a momentary flash probably as infa red reverts instantly to daytime (refraction from headlights) so you see repeated flashes from the corner of your eye from the camera screen.

Something else designed by somone who's never done the actual job for a living long term in all weathers and situations, no doubt cameras instead of mirrors look wonderful on a power point presentation and in perfect evaluation settings perform ok, out in the real world of filthy roads countless sources of light and having to maneuver in dark restricted places they are not up to the job...another answer to yet another question nobody asked.

My advice, when the roads are wet and filthy and especially when its dark wet and filthy take even more care of being near HGVs that don't have normal mirrors...have you noticed folks the obvious that you can no longer see the driver when there's no mirrors until you're almost al the past, even less chance of judging whether he's looking for or at you.

Door handles - JonestHon
‘ The simple, but still annoying, problem will be the damn things freezing and not popping out when required.’ Megane E-Tech has a ‘hammer’ function if it senses it’s frozen. It’ll vibrate itself out from the flush position. In the event of an accident, the handles pop out. I’d assume everything else does the same.

Great when it's new, but a few years down the line...

"Sorry, we couldn't get the occupants out because the pop out mechanism for the door handle failed".

I suppose they would have to resort to cutting, but it's time wasted if there is potential for a fire to start.

I saw an interesting fire fighting training video that talks about this issue, seems like door handle on cars should be under some standard (if not already).

youtu.be/Q_Ces3OaOyc?si=sdQxb2RWvnA3Uh68