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Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - motormaniac101

The reason I've created this account is research towards my engineering degree, in short I've started a placement at an independent dealership in Warwick for a year (I then return to finish my final year of uni in automotive engineering)

Essentially I've been given a project whilst I'm at the car dealers to identify any everyday sales issues/problems independent dealership owners face, not from the customers perspective! It could be something as small such as dealing with rude customers, or a larger issue such as customers no-showing/missing scheduled appointments (Missing out on potential sales)

Any common sales issues you can provide would be great, the more the better! and I'll reply to all of them asap to try get a better understanding of them!

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - Oli rag

I think you may draw a blank here, as I can’t think of any independent traders that use this forum.

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - RT

The "not from customers' perspective" rules out almost all of us - sadly as the customers' perspective is where car dealer need most improvement.

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - badbusdriver

Obviously SLO is an ex trader, but the OP says independent dealer, not sure if that would be different?.

I have worked at a number of different independent dealers. But never in the sales side of things (though I did once "sell" a MK3 Golf in the absence of any sales staff!) and the last time was about 20 years ago!

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - SLO76
I sold cars for a family owned Mitsubishi and Proton dealer based at three sites (at the time) back in the 90’s. It wasn’t a large chain, but today the firm has expanded dramatically after binning low profit new cars in favour of used only.

Biggest issues we faced I’d say related to Joe Public’s unrealistic expectations. People buy a cheap sub £3,000 car and expect it to offer the reliability of a new car. It’s the budget end of the market that flags up the greatest number of problem cases. People at this end want everything for nothing. They want their cake and to eat it.

Unrealistic legislation supposedly introduced the public from rogue traders has only served to make selling cheap cars wholly unviable. You can’t guarantee a ten year old car with 100,000 miles or so won’t go wrong in the next six months, no warranty will offer any worthwhile cover and to back it up yourself you’d need to charge far more than the car is worth, but budget car buyers don’t want to fund it, they expect you to give the car away. It’s understandable why most dealers now won’t retail anything below £5,000.

I used to get threatened regularly, all relating to budget end customers. From the guy who threw a screaming fit because the exhaust on the £800 Ford Orion had started to blow a few months later, to the guy who triggered a trading standards backed court case (thrown out by the judge) when the mileage on the Mazda 626 we sold him turned out to be wrong despite us clearly telling him at the time of sale that it was wrong and should be disregarded and that we sold him it at a greatly reduced price as a result, that the car had been perfectly reliable failed to appease him.

I had a guy threatening to kill me over a blowing exhaust on a £2,200 Citroen, a girl screeching abuse over a snapped clutch cable on a £550 Peugeot with 170,000 miles and another went nuts because the old Mazda he bought a year and a half earlier for £2,200 (and then utterly neglected) was worth only £1,000 as a trade in against another sub £3,000 car. A porter at the local hospital threw a tantrum because the £1,000 Mitsubishi Carisma I sold him failed a Mot a year later for a set of discs and pads and a drop link.

So, from my experience almost every bit of grief and abuse came from the sub £5k end of the market. Abuse generated from unrealistically high expectations.

At the other end was the the new car buyer who wanted you to sell him a car at less than it cost you. Hissy fits and demands to speak to the manager when his offer of £5k under the screen price was turned down. New cars were never much fun to sell anyway, it was always just down to price and the margins were r******, sometimes as little as a couple of hundred quid.

Missed appointments were rarely an issue. If someone called ahead about a car they were usually very serious and more often than not a deal was struck, as long as they didn’t come in clutching a copy of Parker’s Price Guide and sporting expectations of huge discounts. The one way to guarantee being left in piece to view was to carry a car price guide with you, we all knew you’d be impossible to deal with and left you well alone.

Edited by SLO76 on 18/11/2023 at 19:18

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - RT
If someone called ahead about a car they were usually very serious and more often than not a deal was struck, as long as they didn’t come in clutching a copy of Parker’s Price Guide and sporting expectations of huge discounts. The one way to guarantee being left in piece to view was to carry a car price guide with you, we all knew you’d be impossible to deal with and left you well alone.

I'll try to remember that "tip" next time I'm buying a car - I'll promise to negotiate realistically though !

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - Adampr

I tend to chat with independent dealers when I'm there because I'm genuinely interested in how it all works.

Most seem terrified of the 3 month warranty period. They don't have any insurance or similar that would cover the failure within that 3 months, so it comes out of their own pocket. They can normally reel off a list of cars they won't sell because they have been caught out by one in the past.

As we see on here quite often, there can be quite a strong relationship between how desirable a car is and how likely it is to go wrong. Quite often, that's people trading in something that they know has a problem rather than wanting to spend anything on repairs. It's hard for a trader to refuse a PX, especially if they need a sale, but that could mean they've inherited a problem.

That means that a trader who wants to avoid potential warranty claims can end up with a forecourt full of boring cars, whilst the one that sells a lot of exciting stuff needs all that extra margin to pay for any repairs in the 3 months.

Ultimately, I can't see how anyone can make a decent living out of it. Perhaps I am naive, perhaps I have unrealistic expectations of what a decent living looks like. Any business with relatively small margins and relatively high risks is going to encourage less scrupulous operators, who will be trying to push that risk on to the customer and get a bigger margin.

I think the biggest challenge they have is sourcing stock. I once went to a fairly new (and very bad) trader that had obviously bought a pile of cars at below book value from an auction, painted the tyres and added a chunk of cash on to what they had paid. I test drove three cars. All were knackered and one had an extremely questionable history. Perhaps the 'trick' is to establish a way of sourcing good quality cars, which means most of the warranty risk disappears.

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - Steveieb

A great piece of motoring journalism from SLO as usual.

But I’ve noticed that an awful lot of sub £5000 cars are now sold on Facebook market place which charges no seller fee unlike auction sites .

I sold my A4 Tdi pd and Corolla Verso this way and they went quickly to local buyers newly arrived from Eastern Europe. Excellent people to deal with but essentially I gave the cars away to make way for replacements .

Buying from someone you know is IMHO the way forward and in that way you have a good chance of getting a good car at a reasonable price.

Asking around all the time to check when a car is being traded in and hoping to get it at trade price even if the timing doesn’t fit!

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - SLO76

Do wish the edit option remained open with posts for more than a few minutes, I’m murder for not reading before posting stuff so apologies for the predictive text nonsense.

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - Adampr

Do wish the edit option remained open with posts for more than a few minutes, I’m murder for not reading before posting stuff so apologies for the predictive text nonsense.

You just have to login before editing.

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - mcb100
Not a trader, but I see lots of comments from dealers to echo the above - sometimes, the lower the car price, the more demanding/unreasonable the customer.
To some extent, I understand why - if you’re looking to spend. say, £1500 on a car, it’s entirely possible that it’s £1500 you can’t afford to lose. So you’ll earn the frustration of the dealer by spending ages looking it over ( and under).
The bottom end of the market does bring its challenges, though, with silly offers on cheap cars - I’ve also seen recently the offer of a 70” TV as a part exchange.
An experienced dealer will develop a sixth sense for who’s worth persevering with, and sometimes will come to the conclusion that the best deal is the one you don’t do.
Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - motormaniac101

**OP Update

Amazing insights so far guys!!

In summary your suggesting that lower-end "cheap-skate" customers cause more distress/hassle for dealers as their constantly trying to bargain and make claims? Any potential ways around this? Supposedly the simple solution for dealers is to come across as transparent as possible and make customers strongly aware of the low-end car faults & potential problems? Is it that simple?

An additional issue I explored is the poor quality/unreliable leads & customers from autotrader, undoubtedly autotrader is the main source of leads for 99% of UK dealerships, but I've heard around that up to 50% on enquiries from autotrader are simply from timewasters & non-serious buyers?

To what extent is this true, if at all? Are there more reliable sources of leads, e.g. Paid advertising, social media etc

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - movilogo

So, from my experience almost every bit of grief and abuse came from the sub £5k end of the market. Abuse generated from unrealistically high expectations.

That's an excellent insight. With inflation adjustment, where do you think that £5k lies in today's value?

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - Terry W

"Independent dealerships" covers a number of possibilities. Other posters have commented on the bottom end of the market. But independents also exist for new and second owner cars typically retailing at £10-50k+.

I suspect the challenges are rather different - in particular:

  • the ability to compare pricing across the country
  • the competition from relative newcomers who sell online and deliver to your door - much like buying a very expensive domestic appliance
  • trade in opportunities through WBAC etc
  • they may have too small a volume of sales to warrant a lot of manufacturer support, promotions and discounts
  • unless very poorly presented, a same model 1-3 year old car with service history and similar mileage will have little I could detect to differentiate one from another

My guess would be is that the only independents who will survive long term are those who offer excellent customer service probably in smaller towns where there is limited competition, and using an alternative dealer may involve some inconvenience.

We all have a different view of things - but personally if spending (say) £25k on a car I would search nationally but limit any premium paid for local dealers to probably £250 unless I had very positive previous experience.

Edited by Terry W on 20/11/2023 at 15:20

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - Random

One of the advantages used car dealers have today is the internet. Not needing to have a visible sales site must save quite some dosh, with many now advertising cars online, storing them in e.g. a farm biulding and ensuring potential buyers view only by appointment.

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - expat

One of the advantages used car dealers have today is the internet. Not needing to have a visible sales site must save quite some dosh, with many now advertising cars online, storing them in e.g. a farm biulding and ensuring potential buyers view only by appointment.

I would not want to spend a big sum of money on a vehicle from a seller who exists only online and who could vanish any day. Rather like the private seller who wants to meet at McDonalds car park rather than at his home. Makes me suspicious.

Independent dealership problems- Uni assignment - Random

I've seen main dealers close overnight, no guarantees there either.

Here's one of the best, not an any street, by appointment only. I have no connection with this guy. www.samjordancars.com/about/