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UK Buses - Metropolis.

It has occurred to me that the UK bus and coach market seems pretty narrow in its choice of brand. Most coaches (or at least the chassis) I see are Volvo, the occasional Iveco, Scania and VDL. Invariably European.

Why no Asian coaches and buses?

Hyundai, Toyota (the Coaster), Hino, Kia, Nissan, Isuzu, Mitsubishi,.. they all make coaches and/or buses. I wonder what the main reason is for them not being here? Did the EU have some kind of protectionism to bus manufacturers that we have continued?

There are Chinese brands as well but I am not so familiar with those.

Edited by Metropolis. on 05/10/2023 at 20:41

UK Buses - Ian_SW

The electric London buses built in Scarborough start life as a pre-built electric chassis imported from China. According to Wikipedia these are built by BYD. The fully assembled buses are branded as Plaxton.

UK Buses - Metropolis.
Interesting, thanks
UK Buses - SLO76
Alexander Denis (ADL) is very dominant in the UK bus market, with near 50% of the market in service buses and they have production facilities in several other countries and global sales growth. It’s good to see a UK success story thriving despite European competition. I’ve done several hundred thousand miles at the helm of their products over the years, some good and some not so good. But the firm is thriving and employs a lot of people.

The small firm I now work for has just placed an order for their new ADL E100 electric buses after a trialing a couple of Mellor rivals in the last year, another UK firm that’s up and coming. They supply much of the UK’s wide body minibuses as used by dial a bus operators.

I can fully understand the success of Volvo and Scania though, I’ve seen Scania E300’s with two million miles up still running daily service work, they just run and run. Ditto the big Volvo coaches I used to drive on express routes, they were great things to drive and the engines and gearboxes would do interstellar mileages with ease. My favourite old buses are the old ALD Volvo Trident double deckers, these are proper old school buses and a good one will surprise you with its turn of speed.


Not much in the way of Japanese buses and coaches ever make their way here, which is a shame as I’m sure they’d be robust designs.

UK Buses - edlithgow

Quite a lot of Volvo's long range coaches (and HGV's) here in Taiwan too. Also Hino.

Local buses not sure, I think mostly Mitsubishi, but havn't paid much attention. I'll have another look,

Local buses relatively minor in the transport mix, probably because of high scooter ownership.

I used to use the relatively long range buses quite a lot but more involvement with more expensive women (who I find insist on using the HSR) pretty much stopped that.

UK Buses - mcb100
‘The electric London buses built in Scarborough start life as a pre-built electric chassis imported from China. According to Wikipedia these are built by BYD. The fully assembled buses are branded as Plaxton.’

There was a shouty Greg Wallace ‘Inside the Factory’ programme showing the rolling chassis coming into the factory in Scarborough to be coach built.
BYD - ‘Build Your Dreams’, they produce as many cars as Tesla, but also trucks and buses.
UK Buses - UCB
Wrightbus based in Ballymena Co.Antrim produces bodies for many buses that sit on Volvo, Scania and Mercedes chassis. The most distinctive Wright product is the New Routemaster London bus, introduced in February 2012 as an update of the AEC Routemaster. Production ended in 2017 when the 1,000th left the production line. Wrightbus also produced their own chassis for some models.
UK Buses - Terry W

There are ~140k buses and coaches registered in the UK with annual sales of ~4,000 units.

This makes the age of the oldest ~35 years old - not entirely surprising as they are designed for long service lives.

As new vehicles can each cost £250k upwards, I assume operators are very keen to ensure good spares and service back-up. "If it's not running it is not earning" as an old engineering colleague used to say to me.

This probably explains the evolution of a limited number of brands in the market - carrying spares, training technicians etc is cost effective if there is a user base of several thousand - but a barrier to new entrants. EV may be a disruptor.

UK Buses - ExA35Owner

I've had a quick look at Mellor's Sigma 7 electric offering. Looks impressive; still (inevitably) much more expensive than a diesel alternative, but would probably outlast the diesel with lower maintenance costs, even if you factor in replacement batteries at some stage, so might well be an economic Best Buy

UK Buses - SLO76

I've had a quick look at Mellor's Sigma 7 electric offering. Looks impressive; still (inevitably) much more expensive than a diesel alternative, but would probably outlast the diesel with lower maintenance costs, even if you factor in replacement batteries at some stage, so might well be an economic Best Buy

We have two Sigma 8’s which are used on local service routes. I like them, they’re nippy and very relaxing to drive - there’s a YouTube video of one of ours being test driven by Bus and Coach magazine. The customers like them also as they’re quiet and smooth. As with any completely new vehicle design there have been a few reliability problems, mostly relating to the door mechanism and the rear axle but both issues seem to be sorted now and I have every confidence in them. Many of the drivers are hostile towards electric buses, but I don’t share their views, often they go out their way to burn range by turning everything on and driving it as hard as possible. As town or city transport they’re ideal and with fewer moving parts should be more reliable as long as the battery tech is better than the electric Optares that were all sitting for sc*** at 6yrs old with my previous employer.
UK Buses - gordonbennet

Hino (Toyota's industrial arm) make some excellent tough well proven vehicles, not what you would always call cutting edge technology but like their smaller Landcruiser/Hilux range are built to do a job reliably for many years and usually able to be fixed in the field unlike so many modern vehicles which can only be recovered these days for things that should need that. Very old fashioned in some ways and none the worse for that, if it aint broke don't fix it, Toyotas electronics are reliable and it's usually electrical/sensor problems these days.


Recovery is easy if expensive (over £1000 for a 150 mile breakdown tow-in) when in a western country, not something you want to be doingor even possible through hundreds of miles of anything from desert to jungle where the stricken vehicle itself despite being purpose built for the job can only just make progress.

Hino did have a presence in the UK with highly respected trucks, mainly tippers, shipped to Ireland in kit form and assembled there, but they don't seem to want to get too involved with the ever more difficult euro 6/7 regs and who can blame them, these emission systems make vehicles over expensive and unreliable and there's no need for Hino to bother with all that faff when they can sell all the vehicles they want to other countries who have needs of simple durable vehicles that just do the job reliably year in year out.

Of the eurpoean makes i can only speak in relation to trucks, which are closely related to buses and coaches and usually serviced/inspected at the relevant truck dealer site anyway unless the bus company have their own in house workshops.

Whilst other makes offer decent enough vehicles it's dealer attitude determination competence and parts back up which makes the world of difference (commercial workshops a world apart from cars), in our area and other areas where we have depots Scania knock spots off all other makes, its getting to the point that Scania don't need to make their vehicles any better than anyone else's because the service workshops are increasingly important when operators are selecting vehicles...the other makes simply don't get it, yet, well good luck with the lack of attitude as the current downturn gathers pace chaps.

UK Buses - badbusdriver

One thing I have noticed about Japanese (heavy) commercial vehicles is that they do seem to favour large n/a engines. Maybe not now, but not in the dim and distant past (before turbo's became the norm) either. And this applies to buses (coaches specifically) as well as trucks.

For some context or comparison, when I started with Stagecoach in 2003, the coach fleet were all Plaxton bodied Volvo B10's, so called because the engine was "about 10 litres". They were actually 9.6, but Volvo must have decided that was close enough!. A couple of years later the B10 coaches were replaced by B7 coaches which, according to Wikipedia, could have a 6.7, 7.1 or 7.3 litre engine.

A couple of years ago I was spending quite a lot of time on a couple of websites with cars/vehicles for sale in Japan, one of which also had commercial vehicles of all sizes as well as cars. With this thread in mind I went back on it to have see if I could find some big engines. Pretty much straight way I found a 2003 Nissan coach with a 21.3 litre engine, also found a Mitsubishi Fuso coach with a 20 litre engine, but very common for coaches of around that age to have engines of 15 litres or more.

But when I was looking at that website before, I came upon a really beefy looking 6x4 Nissan Big Thumb(!) tractor unit. This had had a 26.5 litre n/a V10, which you could be forgiven for thinking plenty big enough. But one of its rivals at the time was the Isuzu Giga which could be had with a 30,390cc engine(!), also V10, and approx 600PS.

Going down a little in size, I also came upon a weird Frankentstein's monster of a van from Toyota. This grafted the cab of the Dyna truck on to the fairly compact Hiace van body, but it could be had with a 4.0 straight six diesel. Assuming that was more or less the same engine as the J60 Landcruiser used, in n/a form this would have made circa 100PS, so a very low stressed engine!.

I have no doubt the reliability of these big n/a engines was absolutely top notch. So I suspect the reason they didn't have much impact in UK/European markets is that there was some kind of restrictions inlace to stop the Japanese heavy commercials doing the same as the cars did!.

Exchange rates may have also been a factor though?

Edited by badbusdriver on 07/10/2023 at 09:47

UK Buses - galileo

I suspect EU / UK emissions favour small turbo engines over large NA ones.

These types of regulation / taxation policies influence many design features on cars and presumably also on commercial vehicles.

Personally, rules limiting headlight intensity would be more helpful than DRLs which can be front lights only, not a logical idea, but then, the bureaucrats who dream these things up probably only ride in chauffeured limousines (at tax payers expense).

I fear I am becoming an embittered old man (wife says how do you mean, "becoming")

UK Buses - Metropolis.

A lot of very interesting replies here, thank you all!

UK Buses - Sofa Spud

As well as being successful here already, Volvo bought Leyland buses, giving their market share a boost. Leyland, of course, had already absorbed, over the years, other major independent bus chassis makers - AEC, Guy, Daimler, Bristol.