Any - Electric - HGV ~ P Valentine

Electric car charging chaos rages on with drivers vowing to ditch EVs and 'go back to diesel' (msn.com)

I have put this up because it never occurred to me that people would go to such extremes to charge their cars, or get into an argument about being kept waiting. 1 guy said he had to get up at 0400 to get a charging point, and some are going out in the middle of the night (according to this article ) just to charge up. So this survey is in 2 parts, have you ever had to go out at a silly time just to recharge your car ?

In related articles, it seems people are having an insurance hike as a result of going electric. With some pretty big rises. I can understand that in some cases, having to pay twice as much for an electric version of the same car would make it go up, esp as with certain apps you can start the car from a mobile and as such security would be an issue, esp as you wont hear them drive it away. So the question is has your insurance gone up? and not for the 2 reasons I have mentioned.

Clearly, for those who do not live in terrace houses or flats, which most people do, the first does not apply as you prob have your own charging point.

Edited by HGV ~ P Valentine on 03/10/2023 at 10:13

Any - Electric - SLO76
I used to use the free Charge Place Scotland chargers at our local cricket club (can’t beat a bit of free electricity) but there’s been a recent surge in electric cars in my area and no new chargers so it’s pretty much impossible to get on one within easy walking distance now so we just charge it at the house which costs around £3 to fill overnight on reduced rate.

I wouldn’t think of buying an electric car without off street parking and a home charger, the network is insufficient, unreliable and far far too costly in the case of the fast charge network which typically cost 79p p/kw compared to around 9p on a low rate tariff at home overnight, or 26p on normal rate.

If they want wholesale adoption of EV’s they need to build far more chargers, they must be accessible at the touch of a button or debit card rather than faffing around downloading apps or trying to get online when there’s no signal and the costs must be capped at a level which makes going electric financially viable when factoring in the substantial additional upfront costs (when new) and the inconveniences.

Any - Electric - HGV ~ P Valentine

Thank you for your answer, I never thought about the app thing, it would be a big issue if you go off the beaten track as in NTH Wales, Scottish highlands or any remote place you wont get a signal.

There was a news report on BBC or ITV, and they said even in 1 town people had to use 20 or so diff apps to park in diff places, with some only streets away. They are pushing to get 1 universal app for all of them, but where this idea falls down is private parking place ( as opposed to national chains like NCP ) will usually get some sort of financial incentive beyond the parking to use the app they do.

Edited by HGV ~ P Valentine on 03/10/2023 at 10:36

Any - Electric - Sofa Spud

Most people go to the supermarket for their weekly shop and most people use their car to do that.

In the near future, with developments in rapid charging and increases in battery range, I can see supermarkets having many more chargers, so that people can fast-charge their EVs while in shopping. The technology exists for this already but it's not widespread. One day it will be.

Any - Electric - Bolt

Most people go to the supermarket for their weekly shop and most people use their car to do that.

In the near future, with developments in rapid charging and increases in battery range, I can see supermarkets having many more chargers, so that people can fast-charge their EVs while in shopping. The technology exists for this already but it's not widespread. One day it will be.

The tech does exist but only for a few, too many cars online if anything like California they use diesel generators to make up the shortfall in charging capacity, which I gather happens a lot

Any - Electric - madf

Most people go to the supermarket for their weekly shop and most people use their car to do that.

In the near future, with developments in rapid charging and increases in battery range, I can see supermarkets having many more chargers, so that people can fast-charge their EVs while in shopping. The technology exists for this already but it's not widespread. One day it will be.

There is a 7 year wait for Grid connections.

Nothing will happen quickly without major change.

Any - Electric - Speedbird 747

My local Waitrose has recently removed their two charging points.

Any - Electric - mcb100
All public chargers more powerful than 8kW must be installed with a debit/card payment facility (no need for an app). Existing chargers must be retrofitted with one within 12 months.
An app transaction still works better for obtaining a receipt.

There’ll also be a requirement for chargers to be 99% reliable over the course of a year.

By the end of August (September’s figures incoming any day) there were 48450 public chargers in the UK, up 2713 in one month and 42% more than this time last year.
Plus an estimated 400,000+ at home and work locations (where ~80% of charging takes place).

Recent surveys of EV drivers show that 92% will not go back to petrol or diesel.

Edited by mcb100 on 03/10/2023 at 17:16

Any - Electric - Bolt
All public chargers more powerful than 8kW must be installed with a debit/card payment facility (no need for an app). Existing chargers must be retrofitted with one within 12 months. An app transaction still works better for obtaining a receipt. There’ll also be a requirement for chargers to be 99% reliable over the course of a year. By the end of August (September’s figures incoming any day) there were 48450 public chargers in the UK, up 2713 in one month and 42% more than this time last year. Plus an estimated 400,000+ at home and work locations (where ~80% of charging takes place). Recent surveys of EV drivers show that 92% will not go back to petrol or diesel.

So we can look forward to power cuts this winter, and according to the long range forecast we have a month of snow to come...a winter to look forward to eh....as long as the EVs can get about!

Any - Electric - Andrew-T

<< ... according to the long range forecast we have a month of snow to come ,,, >>

I'm not putting any money on that - at least where I live (Cheshire).

Any - Electric - bathtub tom
Recent surveys of EV drivers show that 92% will not go back to petrol or diesel.

I wonder if that opinion might change when they have to renew their insurance?

Any - Electric - mcb100
‘I wonder if that opinion might change when they have to renew their insurance?’

Motor insurance premiums have gone up way ahead of inflation generally, and EV insurers are paying proportionately more at renewal time.
Time will tell, but I’ve not seen anything reported so far.
Any - Electric - RT
Recent surveys of EV drivers show that 92% will not go back to petrol or diesel.

Given that EV drivers have already worked through the logic of deciding that an EV works for them, that 92% means that 8% regret the choice and want to go back.

Any - Electric - HGV ~ P Valentine

Prob not, even more so when they have to fork out 20k for a new battery pack.

Any - Electric - SLO76
“ Recent surveys of EV drivers show that 92% will not go back to petrol or diesel.”

No links or evidence to back my observation up but one thing I notice when looking at used EV’s is that they typically have had more owners than is the norm. It’s not unusual to see 5/6yr old Nissan Leaf’s with 5 owners plus. I suspect many people buy them then find that they’re not suitable for their usage then offload them. I have heard a few local cases from friends and family who’ve dropped their electric cars to return to petrol or are planning to as they’ve found them too much of a compromise when travelling any distance.

The 4hrs we spent both using and in locating functioning and available fast chargers on our recent trip to Lincolnshire isn’t appealing to the majority. Yes, a more modern EV with better range would have slashed this but the whole economic case for going electric is thus wiped out by the huge additional cost. To me a used EV is the only economically viable option for going electric for the masses who fund their own cars in the absence of huge (and unsustainable) tax payer funded subsidies.

I like our Leaf, it’s perfect for day to day local usage and travelling to and from work, we’ve slashed our petrol consumption and emissions but it’s not a fully viable family vehicle for your typical UK family.

Edited by SLO76 on 04/10/2023 at 15:07

Any - Electric - mcb100
‘The tech does exist but only for a few, too many cars online if anything like California they use diesel generators to make up the shortfall in charging capacity, which I gather happens a lot’

California has been having rolling blackouts for a few years - largely caused by hotter weather causing greater power consumption via increased use of air conditioning.
EV’s can actually help - charge them overnight, when the grid is under less stress, then use bidirectional charging to run the house from the EV battery. A Ford F-150 will power a typical house for three days, whilst even a 37kWh LEAF will do just over a day.
I know you then can’t go anywhere in it, but you don’t have a baking hot house and a freezer full of ruined food.
Any - Electric - Metropolis.
Good point for the dystopian EV future that awaits us. For now much more easily sorted with a back up generator.

Edited by Metropolis. on 03/10/2023 at 18:34

Any - Electric - daveyK_UK
The few people I know who have electric vehicles all share the same 3 thoughts
1. You must have off street charging in the UK to live with an EV
2. The sheer amount of apps to charge when out and about is a major headache
3. Avoid trying to get a charge in motorway service stations during the summer holidays unless your prepared for a long wait and likely to end up paying for parking while at the services as you will go over the 2 hour free limit

Any - Electric - HGV ~ P Valentine

I saw an article where someone took 19 hours to charge their vehicle, it caused an argument, but they have the right as it is public access.

Any - Electric - mcb100
‘ according to the long range forecast we have a month of snow to come..’

Just checked the Met Office’s long range forecast - it only goes to November 1st. Bit unsettled, some fog, wet, maybe a bit of frost. Anything other than that is pure guesswork.
Power cuts were also predicted last winter. Anyone experience any?
Any - Electric - Adampr

Blackouts are less likely this year than last

www.nationalgrideso.com/news/winter-outlook-signal...m

Any - Electric - Brit_in_Germany

Are you saving the Venice bus accident story for tomorrow?

Any - Electric - mcb100
‘I saw an article where someone took 19 hours to charge their vehicle, it caused an argument, but they have the right as it is public access.’

A few more details would be useful -

Someone left the car plugged in for 19 hours or the car took 19 hours to charge (must have been on a 3 pin plug)?
Any - Electric - badbusdriver
‘I saw an article where someone took 19 hours to charge their vehicle, it caused an argument, but they have the right as it is public access.’ A few more details would be useful - Someone left the car plugged in for 19 hours or the car took 19 hours to charge (must have been on a 3 pin plug)?

Sounds highly unlikely that a public charger would take 19 hour to charge up any car unless there was something wrong with it. And if that was the case, surely you'd go somewhere else?

But the post is conspicuously vague?

Any - Electric - mcb100
Average battery size is c70kWh, so charging 0-100% on a 7.4kW AC charger is 9-10 hours.
A driver is unlikely to arrive at a fast charge (yes, 7kW is classed as fast…) on 0%.
So that only leaves a 3 pin plug to take that long. And according to Zap-Map, the majority of those are houses and businesses that allow people to charge.

So I’m going for selfish/inconsiderate owner not unplugging when it’s done.
Any - Electric - Brit_in_Germany

Maybe this article:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12588731/Furious-...l

Any - Electric - madf

Well worth reading about EVs..

Rather lengthy so have time to read. Lots of facts as well.!

"To recap, we’re currently averaging about 16% market share for new electric vehicles, a number that’s been pretty flat all year. Yet for 2024 that has to increase to 22% and, in just over four years, electric cars will become the default with a target of 52% for 2028.

To put it more bluntly, EV sales will have to increase by a third over current levels, and in just three months’ time. And the prime minister has basically gone on national television and radio to more or less tell the people of the UK not to bother switching to electric vehicles. It all sounds like a storyline from “The Thick of It” or “Yes, Minister”, except not as funny."

www.thecarexpert.co.uk/is-goverment-digging-a-grav...8

Any - Electric - Andrew-T

Well worth reading about EVs.. Rather lengthy so have time to read. Lots of facts as well.!

As soon as someone mentions 'facts' I ask myself 'are these FACTS (i.e. established by experiment or experience) or are they just data - or worse, simply opinion ?'

Now having read it. the article makes a lot of sense. I just wonder what might be the consequence of makers missing those production targets and being fined £15K per car. If they stay in business, they will need to raise overall prices - i.e. punters will be fined (indirectly) which I suppose is the real intention.

Edited by Andrew-T on 08/10/2023 at 12:32

Any - Electric - corax

Well worth reading about EVs.. Rather lengthy so have time to read. Lots of facts as well.!

As soon as someone mentions 'facts' I ask myself 'are these FACTS (i.e. established by experiment or experience) or are they just data - or worse, simply opinion ?'

Now having read it. the article makes a lot of sense. I just wonder what might be the consequence of makers missing those production targets and being fined £15K per car. If they stay in business, they will need to raise overall prices - i.e. punters will be fined (indirectly) which I suppose is the real intention.

Punters can't afford an EV at the current price, let alone raising them. They need to be subsidised, like solar panels were, if they want private sales. (And the charging network improved, along with investment/recuitment in the National Grid to connect all the independent power supply projects being built).

Putting the 'Great' back into Great Britain :-)

Any - Electric - mcb100
Operators of rapid charge networks are charging overstay fees for those that don’t move on - no reason why they can’t all do it.

Another Daily Mail article.

Edited by mcb100 on 08/10/2023 at 10:55

Any - Electric - HGV ~ P Valentine

The bill for insuring your electric car can rocket to £9,000 (msn.com)

It seems that parts are more expensive, expertise ( mechanical ) to fit them and cars being written off because of the cost of electric car repairs is something you will have to live with.

Any - Electric - mcb100
‘Well worth reading about EVs..

Rather lengthy so have time to read. Lots of facts as well.!’

I’ll not disagree with a word of that article.
Any - Electric - Xileno

Closing this one now as the subject of Tesla X insurance is running in the EV thread.

Mod