No. The biggest political mistake for the UK motor industry in that era was joining the EC.
Yup, and as said above Japans home market is RHD and Toyota make the most reliable cars anywhere.
We won't have a manufacturing industry again, our power costs thanks to successive govts make industry uneconomical.
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<< We won't have a manufacturing industry again, our power costs thanks to successive govts make industry uneconomical. >>
Without wishing to send this thread off at a tangent, I suggest it goes deeper than that. It's always easy to blame whichever govt one dislikes. This country has been declining gradually for about a century, partly because we have dug up and exported most of our natural resources - coal, iron, tin. etc - and we have just sanctioned another bit of the offshore oil. Other nations still have coal, oil and all the rare metals needed by modern tech. We have to export our ingenuity (what is left of it) and hope to retain financial advantage in the City.
And of course we have priced ourselves out of most markets, for various reasons - depending on your point of view.
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Whilst we're doing tangents (although this one is fairly well-relates), I was surprised that The Holden brand has vanished. GM decided to stop making RHD cars altogether after ditching Vauxhall, and that was that.
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No. The biggest political mistake for the UK motor industry in that era was joining the EC. We immediately cut off our kith and kin in the commonwealth such as (but not limited to) New Zealand and Australia who suddenly had EC tariffs to deal with - an incredible betrayal and Japan swept in. RHD is inherently better given most people are right handed (for the steering wheel) and have a dominant right eye. The Europeans were never going to have the same loyalty to our cars!
The UK owned motor industry died during the 1960-80s as the cars manufactured were r****** - some decent designs poorly executed, unreliable, put together in strike ridden obsolete factories.
The Japanese succeeded with (back then) low manufacturing costs, high quality levels, high specification.
As a market Australia/NZ is less than 10% of the EU. The EU is as little as 20 miles away, A/NZ 10,000. The loyalty shown in the 1970s to UK car manufacturers was a legacy of empire and WW2, not backed by product quality.
Objectively, the EU was where the focus of market development should go - not a distant bit of empire from which many sought separation.
Interestingly one other explanation for drive on the left was that it enabled the sword, typically held in the right, to defend against oncoming attackers.
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‘ Interestingly one other explanation for drive on the left was that it enabled the sword, typically held in the right, to defend against oncoming attackers.’
And apparently why spiral staircases in castles go right as you ascend. So those defending them could more effectively wield a sword with their right hand.
Edited by mcb100 on 02/10/2023 at 13:57
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Interestingly one other explanation for drive on the left was that it enabled the sword, typically held in the right, to defend against oncoming attackers.
There is an urban myth, derived from this, that I enjoy.
Essentially, with the exception of America, the countries that drive on the right are those that were conquered by Napoleon. He insisted that everyone ride on the right so that he could hold his sword in his left hand and keep his right hand tucked in.
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If we were going to change to driving on the other side of the road, the best time would have just after the Second World War, when there were fewer cars on the road because of petrol rationing and general austerity.
We're living through all the damage the foolish mistake called Brexit has done, so it would be ironic if we were now to change to driving on the right.
Anyway, in a purely practical sense, changing the side of the road we drive on would now be a huge upheaval compared to any the benefits it might bring. Much better to just rejoin the EU and adopt the Euro.
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If we were going to change to driving on the other side of the road, the best time would have just after the Second World War, when there were fewer cars on the road because of petrol rationing and general austerity.
We're living through all the damage the foolish mistake called Brexit has done, so it would be ironic if we were now to change to driving on the right.
Anyway, in a purely practical sense, changing the side of the road we drive on would now be a huge upheaval compared to any the benefits it might bring. Much better to just rejoin the EU and adopt the Euro.
There was a referendum: you lost. Get over it. :-)
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<< There was a referendum: you lost. Get over it. :-) >>
Everyone knows there was a referendum, with a rather unconvincing result which we all have to get over. But current opinion seems to suggest that a re-run would be unlikely to confirm the result.
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<< There was a referendum: you lost. Get over it. :-) >>
Everyone knows there was a referendum, with a rather unconvincing result which we all have to get over. But current opinion seems to suggest that a re-run would be unlikely to confirm the result.
Don't be so sure about that, many don't say too much on certain subjects because we're fed up with the programmed crying and faux outrage, just the same when questioning the battery car narrative.
Opinion is an interesting concept, when only one opinion is allowed and any other hysterically shouted down sometimes the actual event, in this case the referendum (and Trump), can provide surprising results...do you really think Cameron would have allowed the referendum to go ahead if he hadn't assured his owners remain would win? hence why he was outed with his useless tail between his legs within hours of failing.
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<< There was a referendum: you lost. Get over it. :-) >>
Everyone knows there was a referendum, with a rather unconvincing result which we all have to get over. But current opinion seems to suggest that a re-run would be unlikely to confirm the result.
Don't be so sure about that, many don't say too much on certain subjects because we're fed up with the programmed crying and faux outrage, just the same when questioning the battery car narrative.
Opinion is an interesting concept, when only one opinion is allowed and any other hysterically shouted down sometimes the actual event, in this case the referendum (and Trump), can provide surprising results...do you really think Cameron would have allowed the referendum to go ahead if he hadn't assured his owners remain would win? hence why he was outed with his useless tail between his legs within hours of failing.
As far as I can tell, Cameron called the referendum to shore up support ahead of the 2015 election because he was scared of losing votes to UKIP and Labour winning. You're right that he never thought he'd lose it, but I don't think he was particularly responding to his owners other than the electorate.
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Essentially, with the exception of America, the countries that drive on the right are those that were conquered by Napoleon.
Never realised that Korea, China, Mongolia, most of South America, huge parts of Central and Northern Africa, parts of the Middle East, Norway, Finland etc were conquered by Napoleon.
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Presumably you also never realised that 'America' includes South America and that, more importantly, 'myth' means something that is not true?!
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Presumably you also never realised that 'America' includes South America and that, more importantly, 'myth' means something that is not true?!
Most have always referred to North and South America geographically, America on its own tends to mean the North.
As for being a myth why do you bother post it.
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As for being a myth why do you bother post it.
Sorry, I should have avoided corrupting this otherwise perfect thread about pointless speculation, Brexit debate and claims about those good old 'shadowy figures'.
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Thanks for the (mostly) interesting answers. The Japanese success seems to support the 'no' answer, but they did get a lot of help after the 2ndWW to boost their exports ...but then I suppose we did too. I do heartily disagree with the 'Thatcher' comment - perhaps the poster was too young to experience what a sorry state the country was in when she came to power.
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"....sorry state the country was in when she came to power."
I expect we could discuss and argue that one until Christmas.
In the other forum though.
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I do heartily disagree with the 'Thatcher' comment - perhaps the poster was too young to experience what a sorry state the country was in when she came to power.
You say the nicest things...unfortunately also some of the least accurate.
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Andrew, the polls also predicted remain before the day of the referendum. Now remainers/rejoiners are on the back foot they are more likely to speak up and also to answer surveys. Much like brexit supporters used to in the 40 or so years prior.
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Andrew, the polls also predicted remain before the day of the referendum. Now remainers/rejoiners are on the back foot they are more likely to speak up and also to answer surveys. Much like brexit supporters used to in the 40 or so years prior.
We could speculate endlessly about that, but only a full referendum might settle the question. I'm not sure either 'side' is on the back foot as it seems to me that most people have finally decided debating the issue is a waste of time.
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No. The biggest political mistake for the UK motor industry in that era was joining the EC. We immediately cut off our kith and kin in the commonwealth such as (but not limited to) New Zealand and Australia who suddenly had EC tariffs to deal with - an incredible betrayal and Japan swept in.
Jeez, a step back 50+ years.
Not seen language like that since some vicar in Bradford who wrote in the Yorkshire POst c1973 defending the Smith Regime in Rhodesia.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 02/10/2023 at 22:24
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Interesting that you picked up on that phrase in particular. Do you find it controversial?
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Interesting that you picked up on that phrase in particular. Do you find it controversial?
Controversial? Yes.
The French and Germans are our kith and kin too.
To my mind the term has racial connotations bordering on racism hence my reference to Smith's apologist. .
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The reason many people call them our kith and kin is because (especially back then) the populations were of overwhelmingly British stock in nations created by us in living memory. They also fought alongside us in the war hence the sentiment of betrayal. Nothing racist about the phrase.
In the Rhodesian context it would have been a reference to the minority settler population which is a whole other discussion.
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The reason many people call them our kith and kin is because (especially back then) the populations were of overwhelmingly British stock in nations created by us in living memory. They also fought alongside us in the war hence the sentiment of betrayal.
All absolutely true, but all that happened 70 years ago, and many of those kith and kin have decided to loosen the ties with the Old Country. The UK has become more allied with Europe, which has the advantage of less trading transport costs. The 'kith and kin' argument doesn't last for ever. Don't forget what happened in 1776 across the pond - many of them were kith and kin too.
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It is 70 years ago now, but in 1972 it was not. I do believe we would have much closer ties in terms of trade and culture now with those commonwealth countries, had we not shunned them by joining the EC. As we did join the EC we certainly did become economically tied as they controlled our trade policy, but thankfully we are broadening our horizons again now. I am not sure we ever become culturally tied to Europe in quite the same way as we were once to the commonwealth. We were always a reluctant member. Had we not joined the EC, we might have built on those then
-close links but as it happened those countries had to go their own way as well and the rest is history.
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I am not sure we ever become culturally tied to Europe in quite the same way as we were once to the commonwealth. We were always a reluctant member.
Cultural ties may help international trade, but I think they quite easily drop down the priority list when needs must.
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