What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
all of em - Bicycle - HGV ~ P Valentine

London motorists should give way to 'faster' cyclists: Jeremy Vine (msn.com)

Why do these people get to air their stupid ideas ? It is worth a read, if for no other reason then just to see the plain idiocy and self importance of cyclist, and the power they have been given going to their heads.

1 of many things suggested is they now want cars to pull over when a cyclist wants to pass.

all of em - Bicycle - Adampr

It's only one person, and that's a person who is paid to say controversial things and stir up debate.

Having said that, he's not wrong; it's much quicker to move around London on a bike than in a car and you do spend a lot of time waiting for a gap to squeeze past long lines of traffic. The answer isn't even more half-baked laws, though, it's proper cycle infrastructure.

all of em - Bicycle - FoxyJukebox
I think it’s safer and quicker to walk or if you must -go by bus
all of em - Bicycle - Bromptonaut
I think it’s safer and quicker to walk or if you must -go by bus

None of that is true in central London....

all of em - Bicycle - Engineer Andy
I think it’s safer and quicker to walk or if you must -go by bus

None of that is true in central London....

Surely safer would be true, given the shennanigans cyclists in London often use to get from A to B - running red lights and the wrong way down one-way streets included.

Also weaving through traffic (including in the incorrect lane or wrong side of the road to overtake, or worse still, undertaking in HGV blind spots) to make progress - hardly safe.

Much easier outside of the rush hours, but then those periods aren't very long nowadays.

Quicker, definitely, safer, I seriously doubt it.

all of em - Bicycle - Sulphur Man

There's a promising looking new cycle lane under construction near me, linking a railway station with shops and a big business park. It's separate from the busy main road, doesnt remove any parking spaces, doesnt impact on pavement space. But from local social media you'd think some drivers are 'under siege'.

To me, every driver should be backing proper segregated cycle infrastructure, to remove conflict and encourage more people to take safe short journeys on a bike, lowering traffic volumes (school run traffic especially), lowering road wear and tear, public health, air quality, etc etc

all of em - Bicycle - Engineer Andy

There's a promising looking new cycle lane under construction near me, linking a railway station with shops and a big business park. It's separate from the busy main road, doesnt remove any parking spaces, doesnt impact on pavement space. But from local social media you'd think some drivers are 'under siege'.

To me, every driver should be backing proper segregated cycle infrastructure, to remove conflict and encourage more people to take safe short journeys on a bike, lowering traffic volumes (school run traffic especially), lowering road wear and tear, public health, air quality, etc etc

A nice idea situation. Unfortunately, as most people discover, real world issues like maintenance budgets (councils wasting an/or not having sufficient funds to cover it) and common-sense thinking over siting them, plus most areas cannot accept separate cycle lanes with significant changes (some which may be significantly detrimental to one or more user and/or landowner).

Our medieval road and countryside layout doesn't help, nor does our daft planning system and Construction Industry.

I often cycle on the road because either 'cycle lanes' are shared with pedestrians and are not wide enough / properly segregated, go nowhere / take on long circuitous routes and/or the route iself is very poorly maintaned (broken up paths, severely overgrown bushes, etc), sometimes dangerous due to that or going through 'dodgy' areas with lovely spots for an ambush from thugs intent on stealing your bike, etc, etc.

I'm currently trying to find an 'laternative' (read less hilly) route to ride to visit my parents, but it's proving a real pain due to the above issues.

Ironically, in urban areas that segragated cycle paths are common, such as (New Town area) Stevenage, they are rarely used by people cycling. Probably because for a lot of thing, you need to go by car (load capacity - shopping) or some form of transport that is safe and dry / warm in poor weather.

Not exactly worth using the cycle paths for 'a nice ride' in such places, compared to the nearby pretty villages, which are generally devoid of traffic - just watch out for potholes and the occasional bit of wildlife and farm vehicles.

all of em - Bicycle - Bromptonaut

I often cycle on the road because either 'cycle lanes' are shared with pedestrians and are not wide enough / properly segregated, go nowhere / take on long circuitous routes and/or the route iself is very poorly maintaned (broken up paths, severely overgrown bushes, etc), sometimes dangerous due to that or going through 'dodgy' areas with lovely spots for an ambush from thugs intent on stealing your bike, etc, etc.

I agree with Andy. Too many routes are circuitous, shared or improperly segregated or so badly surfaced as to be unusable. One runs alongside the unclassified county road from her to the next village en route to Northampton.

I don't know if it was ever properly surfaced or whether it's just broken up down the years. Surface is loose with a top dressing of broken glass and dog poo. Passable on an MTB and, with care on a Brompton. No way by classic tourer with 27*11/4 wheels, or the modern 700C*28 are safe. But use the road and it's abuse and punishment passes asa routine.

Ironically, in urban areas that segragated cycle paths are common, such as (New Town area) Stevenage, they are rarely used by people cycling. Probably because for a lot of thing, you need to go by car (load capacity - shopping) or some form of transport that is safe and dry / warm in poor weather.

The Redways in MK are similar. Even around the station where people use bikes a lot the roads are preferred. Combination of bad routes, broken glass and 'ner do wells loitering in underpasses. Muggings for Bromptons are becoming too frequent in London and no doubt the message they're wirt the best part of a grand on ebay has spread.

all of em - Bicycle - Metropolis.
The anti motoring lobby gets funnier by the day. I would be happy for taxes to be used to build cycling tunnels, then keep the roads above for cars.
all of em - Bicycle - badbusdriver

The anti motoring lobby gets funnier by the day.

Interesting to note the use of "anti-motoring" rather than "pro-cycling". But I suppose using the latter wouldn't stir folk up so much would it?.

Same goes for the thread title "all of em", along with the use of "they", (i.e, all cyclists) rather than "him" or "he", which would be a more accurate description of one person's opinion/comments.

A person who, as has been pointed out, is paid to stir people up.

Edited by badbusdriver on 27/08/2023 at 09:22

all of em - Bicycle - Metropolis.
You make an interesting point, but they -ok, he, is trying to curtail the rights of motorists, which I consider anti motoring.
all of em - Bicycle - Sofa Spud
You make an interesting point, but they -ok, he, is trying to curtail the rights of motorists, which I consider anti motoring.

The only people who have 'rights' to use the highway (apart from motorways) are pedestrians. Motorists and cyclists have government permission to use the roads in accordance with the law and rules of the road, not an absolute right.

all of em - Bicycle - Andrew-T
You make an interesting point, but they -ok, he, is trying to curtail the rights of motorists, which I consider anti motoring.

The only people who have 'rights' to use the highway (apart from motorways) are pedestrians. Motorists and cyclists have government permission to use the roads in accordance with the law and rules of the road, not an absolute right.

I always understood that cyclists counted as pedestrians with wheels - that's why they don't need a road licence, which any 'powered' vehicle does. Don't horse-riders have similar rights too ? It all goes back to the days of using the 'King's Highway'.

all of em - Bicycle - Andrew-T
The anti motoring lobby gets funnier by the day. I would be happy for taxes to be used to build cycling tunnels, then keep the roads above for cars.

But the anti-cycling lobby is not so funny ? (I'm not a cyclist, by the way, but I once was, some 40 years ago ... )

all of em - Bicycle - Terry W

Just as motorists will sometimes impede the progress of fit cyclists in congested urban areas, in faster moving traffic cyclists should ensure traffic can move smoothly.

This could be done by making it an offence (fine??) to delay cars, or ban cyclists completely.

This would avoid delaying car drivers and reduce environmental impacts through braking and acceleration cycles.

Alternatively we could all behave like tolerant adults.

all of em - Bicycle - nellyjak

Alternatively we could all behave like tolerant adults.

Agree...but sadly there ain't enough of us...??

I'm a cyclist and a driver and as always there's faults on both sides..stupid cyclists and impatient drivers.

The new rules that came in earlier in the year regarding pedestrians, horse riders and cyclists as far as I can see have been largely ignored..with cars still passing far too close, dangerously (on bends) and at too high a speed.

Better separation/cyle infrastructure would be lovely but it's never gonna happen at any scale. I use cycle paths wherever they are available....more would be nice.

Getting past a gaggle of riders is not that easy sometimes and I think the cyclists could often do more to allow vehicles to pass.

Recently I had to follow a lone cyclist on a main road for more than a mile because it was impossible to pass due to bends/white lines etc...there was quite a build up of traffic and yet the cyclist seemed oblivious (I have a rear view mirror on my bike). He had several opportunities to pull in at gate entrances et al but simply carried on......me.?...I would have pulled in and let the traffic pass.

He wasn't doing anything wrong I guess...but a liitle more thought would have helped.

I guess the only answer is better awareness/tolerance...fat chance eh.?

all of em - Bicycle - Engineer Andy

Alternatively we could all behave like tolerant adults.

Agree...but sadly there ain't enough of us...??

I'm a cyclist and a driver and as always there's faults on both sides..stupid cyclists and impatient drivers.

The new rules that came in earlier in the year regarding pedestrians, horse riders and cyclists as far as I can see have been largely ignored..with cars still passing far too close, dangerously (on bends) and at too high a speed.

Better separation/cyle infrastructure would be lovely but it's never gonna happen at any scale. I use cycle paths wherever they are available....more would be nice.

Getting past a gaggle of riders is not that easy sometimes and I think the cyclists could often do more to allow vehicles to pass.

Recently I had to follow a lone cyclist on a main road for more than a mile because it was impossible to pass due to bends/white lines etc...there was quite a build up of traffic and yet the cyclist seemed oblivious (I have a rear view mirror on my bike). He had several opportunities to pull in at gate entrances et al but simply carried on......me.?...I would have pulled in and let the traffic pass.

He wasn't doing anything wrong I guess...but a liitle more thought would have helped.

I guess the only answer is better awareness/tolerance...fat chance eh.?

Indeed - it certainly helps to see things from both viewpoints when you are both a driver and a cyclist. I try as best I can to keep an eye out on both fronts in order to be as considerate as possible.

I hope that doing so encourages the other road user(s) to be similarly considerate. I certainly get thanks (more so in countryside areas, especially from locals [particularly famer workers at harvest time]) as a cyclist when I pull over / signal the vehicle behind to pass, which is nice to see, and makes it worthwhile.

One good turn deserves another...

all of em - Bicycle - Bromptonaut

Getting past a gaggle of riders is not that easy sometimes and I think the cyclists could often do more to allow vehicles to pass.

A by gaggle, if you mean a group of what we touring riders called a group of fast boys on a club run, they're a lot easier to pass that way than strung out single file.

Recently I had to follow a lone cyclist on a main road for more than a mile because it was impossible to pass due to bends/white lines etc...there was quite a build up of traffic and yet the cyclist seemed oblivious

Reminds me of a similar experience Boxing Day a few years ago.

We were staying near Grange over Sands in the caravan but set out for Keswick in very changeable weather.

A mile or so south of Ambleside we caught up with a lone rider on a fast sports bike. They were doing a but over 20mph on a very wet road. It's pretty twisty along there with multiple bits of solid lines. I might have got past once but given the conditions and possibility of either him losing control and lack of grip for me in a titzup scenario I stuck the carin 2nd and stayed behind until he turned off in Ambleside.

Vehicle behind, some sort of F off massive 4*4, got awfully cross, flashing lights and sounding his horn. I ignored him (or her) and kept back far enough to stop if the rider cocked up and came off.

Still behind when I pulled off at White Cross Common (Rydal) and gave me another blast of the horn.

I gave both fingers!!

all of em - Bicycle - edlithgow

Yeh, I seem to get this with Porsche Cayennes a lot, when I'm doing the legal limit on a long single lane freewqay slip road I use sometimes. They can wait.

I took the "all of em" to be an answer to the bit where it asks you the car model, but perhaps one should add "especially Porsche Cayennes" the owners of which seem to be issued with an especially engorged sense of entitlement, at least here in Taiwan.

all of em - Bicycle - Engineer Andy

Yeh, I seem to get this with Porsche Cayennes a lot, when I'm doing the legal limit on a long single lane freewqay slip road I use sometimes. They can wait.

I took the "all of em" to be an answer to the bit where it asks you the car model, but perhaps one should add "especially Porsche Cayennes" the owners of which seem to be issued with an especially engorged sense of entitlement, at least here in Taiwan.

Similar back here, where you can definitely tell the difference in more rural area between those (including the well off) who've essentially lead most if not all of their lives in a rural-ish area or the 'recently-moved in' bringing their urban attitudes, including bad driving habits.

You still get the occasional 'yoof' barrelling around in their souped-up supermini or Focus-sized car (often in the early evening, especially Friday/Saturday), but most 'real' locals are courteous because they know it encourages others to be so when they need some consideration at some point.

all of em - Bicycle - HGV ~ P Valentine

I did see in the news they set up a stinger and fined over 100 cyclists, for running red lights and various other riding offences, They did the same in Oxford years ago. I think the real issue is that they can get away with it, and the police cannot be bothered, or will simply be too busy with it they wont have time to do anything else, or they just do not want the headache of so much paperwork. As I said it is not that they cannot be fined but that the police are not enforcing laws that already exist for cyclists.

all of em - Bicycle - badbusdriver

I did see in the news they set up a stinger and fined over 100 cyclists, for running red lights and various other riding offences, They did the same in Oxford years ago. I think the real issue is that they can get away with it, and the police cannot be bothered, or will simply be too busy with it they wont have time to do anything else, or they just do not want the headache of so much paperwork. As I said it is not that they cannot be fined but that the police are not enforcing laws that already exist for cyclists.

Using a stinger for a bicycle seems a little extreme!. Plus, given most bicycles are not going that fast, it would surely be easy enough to avoid?

all of em - Bicycle - alan1302

I did see in the news they set up a stinger and fined over 100 cyclists, for running red lights and various other riding offences, They did the same in Oxford years ago. I think the real issue is that they can get away with it, and the police cannot be bothered, or will simply be too busy with it they wont have time to do anything else, or they just do not want the headache of so much paperwork. As I said it is not that they cannot be fined but that the police are not enforcing laws that already exist for cyclists.

Using a stinger for a bicycle seems a little extreme!. Plus, given most bicycles are not going that fast, it would surely be easy enough to avoid?

Think the meant a sting rather than a stinger

all of em - Bicycle - corax

I did see in the news they set up a stinger and fined over 100 cyclists, for running red lights and various other riding offences, They did the same in Oxford years ago. I think the real issue is that they can get away with it, and the police cannot be bothered, or will simply be too busy with it they wont have time to do anything else, or they just do not want the headache of so much paperwork. As I said it is not that they cannot be fined but that the police are not enforcing laws that already exist for cyclists.

Using a stinger for a bicycle seems a little extreme!. Plus, given most bicycles are not going that fast, it would surely be easy enough to avoid?

They bunny hopped over it.

all of em - Bicycle - badbusdriver

You make an interesting point, but they -ok, he, is trying to curtail the rights of motorists, which I consider anti motoring.

But is it really curtailing the rights of motorists to allow a faster vehicle through?. I grew up in the Shetland Islands where, certainly at the time, single track roads were the norm. If a faster car came up behind my Dad, he would always pull in to let them past at the soonest opportunity.

But just to be clear, I am not in favour of the idea, i don't think it is really workable. More cycling lanes are a far more sensible and safer idea.

all of em - Bicycle - Bromptonaut

But is it really curtailing the rights of motorists to allow a faster vehicle through?. I grew up in the Shetland Islands where, certainly at the time, single track roads were the norm. If a faster car came up behind my Dad, he would always pull in to let them past at the soonest opportunity.

Use passing places to permit overtaking is still very much the rule on Single Track Roads. Still plenty of them on the Western Isles and on the mainland north of the Great Glen. Signs explain how to do it with pictograms as well.

all of em - Bicycle - Andrew-T

<< More cycling lanes are a far more sensible and safer idea. >>

Yes, probably. But in the places where this is a real problem, there is often no space (e.g.London) for segregating cycle lanes ?

all of em - Bicycle - Adampr

<< More cycling lanes are a far more sensible and safer idea. >>

Yes, probably. But in the places where this is a real problem, there is often no space (e.g.London) for segregating cycle lanes ?

There's quite a lot of space off the main roads. There are actually already quite a lot of good cycle lanes. The issue tends to be where they need to cross a major road or junction. You can cycle happily on cycle paths or extremely quiet roads for miles, then you hit one of the bridges, Elephant and Castle, Hyde Park Corner etc and it's really quite invigorating....

all of em - Bicycle - Bromptonaut

1 of many things suggested is they now want cars to pull over when a cyclist wants to pass.

He's writing about the centres of big cities - specifically London.

Personally I've never had much trouble overtaking cars in Zone 1 (ie inside the Circle Line) etc on the offside even on busy thoroughfares like The Strand.

all of em - Bicycle - movilogo

Bicycles and cars don't mix well.

I feel London should adopt a Dutch style bike infrastructure model. London is different from rest of the UK so it makes sense to have a separate biking regulation, infrastructure for London alone.

all of em - Bicycle - Bilboman

youtu.be/Nt1iojnIkok?feature=shared

The cyclist seen here being a stubborn and short-sighted show-off was fined for dangerous cycling a year ago in Spain. (There's some great Spanish dialogue there, though nothing to embarrass the local priest!) The clip understandably went viral. (No serious injuries, just s bit of bashed metal.)

all of em - Bicycle - Stackman II

Some years ago we awere on holiday in the French Alps. One day we set off on a road trip around the mountains and found ourselves going over the Col de la Galibier.

This pass has an elevation of 2,642m and is a mecca for cyclists, being a celebrated climb on the Tour de France.

As we started our descent I became aware that a number of cyclists were following us down. They soon crowded my mirrors and I was more than happy to pull over to allow them to pass.

They had worked damned hard to get to the top of that summit and I wasn't going to deny them the thrill of an umhindered descent. As a bonus there is something majestic about the sight of a snake of riders gliding effotlessly round the twists and turns of a serious mountain road.

Edited by Stackman II on 05/09/2023 at 08:27

all of em - Bicycle - Xileno

What a fine account and very considerate. I'm sure they appreciated you moving aside.

There will always be examples of good and bad cyclists. Same as any other road user then.

all of em - Bicycle - Sofa Spud

It's all to do with speed differentials. If a cyclist is doing 12 mph in a 30 zone and there's plenty of space to overtake safely, then that's OK. In a 20 mph zone it's silly to try and overtake a cyclist doing 16 mph.

Also bear in mind that one can be prosecuted for passing too close to a cyclist when overtaking, i.e. not leaving at least 1.5 metres.

all of em - Bicycle - Engineer Andy

It's all to do with speed differentials. If a cyclist is doing 12 mph in a 30 zone and there's plenty of space to overtake safely, then that's OK. In a 20 mph zone it's silly to try and overtake a cyclist doing 16 mph.

Indeed, especially where often the vehicle driver then has to brake to fit in with the traffic in front or to slow down for a corner/junction.

Also bear in mind that one can be prosecuted for passing too close to a cyclist when overtaking, i.e. not leaving at least 1.5 metres.

This law can be rather silly when applied to country roads, where overtaking often means leaving a smaller gap, but where both parties need to be considerate - the cyclist and driver picking an appropriate point that is safe, the cyclist signally to indcate to overtake, etc, etc.

Like farm vehicles, I do my best to keep an eye out for vehicle behind and make sure they aren't held up for too long.

Hopefully they will reciprocate, especially the next time, when they may need to give a bit for a cyclist or another vehicle, especially those who cannot just stop on a sixpence or push into the bushes a bit (mind the stinging nettles, thorns, etc cyclists).

Too often it's those who think their skills and equipment (whether cyclists or drivers) are superior than they really are that come off worst. People can easily over-estimate the road conditions in unfamiliar territory or think others will.

I also find that the use of the bell on my bicycle is appreciated - especially when approaching blind bends and entrances/junctions. Unlike car horns, they don't scare the farm animals and wildlife, but do alert people you're nearby and to watch out.