What is the situation with the charging cables being used by EVs? Is it standardised; eg: all using the same type (apart from Tesla)?

None of the charger points I've ever seen have any provision for those of us who tow trailers or caravans, unlike filling stations which aren't difficult even with a caravan on tow - given that towing a caravan halves the range of an EV, what's the best way to recharge?

Edited by mcb100 on 24/08/2023 at 09:16

Thanks for this, mcb100, good thread. My questions are about longevity of the 'electropowertrain'. How many miles can one expect from the motors and their bearings? Do they ever need to be rewound/reconditioned? Same for the inverters - what sort of life span can they have? Do some motor and inverter makes have a better reputation than others? Apart from battery deterioration and body corrosion, what sort of big bills could be expected after, say, 15yrs and 150,000 miles?

I would think that train operators and loco manufacturers will have experience of railway locos (diesel electric and pure electric) motor reliability dating back over 100 years and millions of miles, subject to harsher ride on rails than car motors suffer on pneumatic tyred wheels.

London Transport, for example, must have statistics.

Are the electric motors brushless?

Q1 Why are ranges advertised as 'up to' when the real world mileage as we know is nothing like?

Q2 Why should an EV cost so much wiping out any running costs saved by a large margin?

Q3 Why buy a car which loses range bit by bit 'til it is next to useless...not to mention worth not much.

Q4 Evs require specialist qualified servicing which seems a licence to print money. I know a lot of people and none have any intention of buying an EV.

I can do Q1. The range stated is the measured WLTP range. The manufacturers are required to advertise that range and nothing else.

www.wltpfacts.eu/

Edited by SLO76 on 24/08/2023 at 21:04

Q1 Why are ranges advertised as 'up to' when the real world mileage as we know is nothing like?

Q2 Why should an EV cost so much wiping out any running costs saved by a large margin?

Q3 Why buy a car which loses range bit by bit 'til it is next to useless...not to mention worth not much.

Q4 Evs require specialist qualified servicing which seems a licence to print money. I know a lot of people and none have any intention of buying an EV.

To answer..

Q1, not true, the electric Berlingo vans my company have got are advertised as having a range of 165 miles, I've managed 200 miles just by being sensible and not using the performance available ( yes a electric van will really fly when asked)

Q2, simply not true...do some research and some maths..

Q3, for the same reason a ice vehicle will loose performance, look after it and it'll live a much longer.

Q4, for general servicing there actually easier and cheaper to maintain than a petrol/ diesel.

‘ Are the electric motors brushless?’

You’re at the limit of my technical knowledge of the inner workings of motors, but the technology is still settling down, with multiple motor types in the marketplace.

Oh dear. This is like asking (and not being able to answer) 'is my engine OHV or OHC' back in the 60s! I was hoping for some expert discussion about comparing and contrasting the efficiencies and durability of different electric motors available, e.g. Lucid's interesting claim that their windings are better than others.

Huge numbers of people save money with a new EV by only paying 2% Benefit in Kind on the car

Not trying to stir things up, but how many does 'huge numbers' equate to?

Asking for clarification about the quantity represented by the term "huge numbers.

Would like more specific information and context regarding the magnitude of the quantity that was mentioned.

I don't see spending many thousands more on an EV as a saving.

My old 182k V70d happily canters long distances on the motorways and seems no different to when I bought it.

I would like to see the servicing quotes for various EVs.

The statement that EVs have a smaller impact on the environment is open to serious doubt, what do you do with the old batteries, how much does the mining of the materials needed impact. My old Volvo will outlast any EV and that alone is a positive impact.

Having salary sacrifice for an EV, I can shed a little light

In terms of numbers, I don't know. A quick Google suggest that Tusker who supplied my car and are a relatively small player have abot 30,000 cars in their fleet and about 85% of those are EVs. Octopus have over 1,500 companies signed up.

As to how it saves you money, it only really does if you want a brand new car. Obviously, almost any used option would be cheaper. If I'd like a brand new MG5 for 48 months and 10,000 miles a year, Tusker will charge my work, and my work will charge me £675 per month including insurance, servicing and tyres. However, my work will chargee that money before deducting tax and NI. The net cost to me would therefore be £414 per month, just under £20k overall.

The cash price of that car would be £31,000 - about the same as a mid spec Peugeot 308sw. I can have one of those for £399 per month plus a £3,000 deposit. Total £22,152. Plus insurance and more expensive fuel.

So that's how salary sacrifice has saved people money

‘ I dislike the modern trend among ICs and EVs to touchscreen controls for everything - what brands/models of EVs use old-school buttons?’ I haven’t driven everything, but every battery powered car I have driven has had some form or size of screen, simply because they’re new(ish) models.

I know they'll have screens for satnav and displays but I'd want to avoid touchscreens for functions like climate control, lights, radio volume, etc

I know that the electric Vauxhall Corsa and Mokka both have physical heating/ventilation controls.

Question from 'Random'

Realised the other day the bays I've seen for charging are for just one vehicle. Are there charging points that make allowance for having a caravan/trailer/horse box etc too?

At present, any trailer needs to be detached and parked elsewhere before charging - one caravanner I've heard of copes with this but it's far from ideal.

Not seen anything yet but I think towing caravans/horseboxes with EV's is still very much a minority pursuit.

EVs and hybrids are cropping up in the club magazines as tow car tests. Not tempted myself.

We're intending to go to the Caravan etc show at the NEC in October. Will be interested to see what's there, either exhibits or talks, on the role of EV etc for towing.

There's a guy with a Polestar 2 who tows a caravan and seems comfortable with stopping every 100-120 miles for a full* recharge. He leaves his wife with the caravan as security, not sure I'd be comfortable with that.

* it's not a full recharge as he doesn't let it drop below 20% and sets off again when it's 80% - so only a 60% charge in reality.

You have 33 million cars on the road of which 850,000 are pure evs, says a lot.

Given the first mainstream EV arrived in the UK 12/13 years ago, what exactly do you think it says?

I know it wouldn't fit with your anti-EV narrative, but a more telling figure would be how many EV's there were 5 years ago compared to now.

Edited by mcb100 on 30/08/2023 at 11:01

There really is no doubt that EV’s have a smaller whole life environmental impact than a comparable ICE. There is lots of data out there if you have a look.

No doubt there is. But does all the data confirm your claim, or is there some against ? :-)

I have a question about running costs for a Renault Zoe. I had one of these as a loan car for a day and loved the driving experience. Not in the market to change cars yet but maybe a possibility in a few years time. Makers don't seem to publish the miles per KwH figures but Parkers website says 3.5 to 4.3. Let's say it's 4 on a good day. I pay 30p per KwH flat rate, which would give a running cost of 7.5 pence per mile. However British Gas do an Electric Driver Tariff at 9.4 pence per KwH between midnight and 5am. This would give a running cost of 2.35 pence per mile. With petrol in my area £1.45 litre/£6.60 gallon this translates to the equivalent of 280 miles per gallon. Too good to be true, or is there a snag? Are my calculations wrong? Do I need to lie down with a cold flannel on my forehead? Serious question, I am tempted now.

Hmm, well obviously Mum's are the best source for accurate information, but if it pleases you to have your groundless concerns validated, go for it!.

watch

But as a counterpoint, here is a YT video clip of an EV certified technician replacing the battery of a 2019 Chevy Volt (note the absence of said "space suit"), which consists of 10 bolts, plus the electrical connections. According to the technician (rather than his Mum), the only difficult part is the logistics of supporting and moving the 800lb (363kg) battery pack.

Talking to the mum of an ev technician. He has to wear a suit that resembles a spaceman to work on the batteries because any leak making contact with flesh is dangerous. They have to inform the fire brigade before working on batteries ant it can take up to 30 hours to change one. In the event of a smash will these noxious fumes escape?

I imagine the fire brigade are getting pretty sick of the Tesla garage phoning up several times a day.

There are plenty of other environments in which very high current and voltages are used - eg: rail, tube, industrial. Even a 240V jolt from a domestic power supply can kill.

It is probably more a case of being safety aware to the point that the right habits are on autopilot, and that kit is designed to limit risk to the inattentive or stupid.