Oh yes before anyone gets there petrol and diesel cars do catch fire!

Yes but battery fires on EVs are harder to extinguish if they can at all, the new batteries shouldn`t apparently catch fire due to there material makeup. though thats a year or 2 away

"Oh yes before anyone gets there petrol and diesel cars do catch fire!"

But the fuel source - petrol or diesel- doesn't suddenly decide to go into thermal runaway overheat and catch fire.

This is more likely to be the reason why electric cars will not be a success. The transport logistics are likely to make their transport around the world uneconomic.

The Daily Mail has been putting out anti EV articles, but I don't know if they are right on this one or not.

And, it turns out, no one from the Dutch coastguard has stated a cause of the start of the blaze…. Daily Mail again. electrek.co/2023/07/26/surprise-media-is-misreport.../

The [Dutch] coastguard said on its website the cause of the fire was unknown, but a coastguard spokesperson had earlier told Reuters it began near an electric car. Roughly 25 out of 2,857 vehicles on the ship were electric.

The International Maritime Organisation, which regulates safety standards at sea, plans to evaluate new measures for ships transporting electric vehicles next year in light of the growing number of fires on cargo ships, a spokesperson said.

"Electric cars burn just as much as combustion engine cars. When batteries overheat and a so-called 'thermal runaway' occurs, then it gets dangerous," said Uwe-Peter Schieder, master mariner and representative of the German Insurance Association.

"A chemical reaction in the battery produces gases which inflate the battery."

We still seem to be in the territory that whilst a battery fire on an EV is a possible cause that has not yet been established with any certainty.

Fremantle Highway is registered in Panama. Will the Panamanians produce an accident report or, given the incident happened in EU (DUtch?) waters will it fall to the Netherlands?

Last time we used Brittany ferries ( June 23), we were asked at embarkation to confirm that our car was not a hybrid or EV. So they are obviously looking at where on the boat to put them and I guess they are or will be engineering solutions to deal more effectively with specific battery fires. At least I assume so

Yeah, if you read some of the links that pop up on a google for Fremantle Highway dealing with EV fires is exercising significant brain power in marine world.

As all tesla cars come form anywhere but the UK, and MG's EVs come form China, why no other reports of EVs on ships catching fire? If it is a risk, we would see more ships on fire.

Yes perhaps two in ten years isn't a trend. And I stress perhaps.

Land Rover self insured and lost lotsofmoney after a fire in China destroyed cars:

tinyurl.com/2da6932v

They must have been EVs (they were not)

Edited by madf on 31/07/2023 at 18:35

There are stacks of EV car fires and other lithium fires on you tube. What is frightening is the speed and intensity in such a short period. I know you cannot be safe anywhere but I would not like to be a passenger on a crowded EV bus if it caught fire. You would have no time to get out. Similarly keeping an electric bike or scooter in your house is not a good idea

HAve there been massive numbers fried alive in EV buses?

The majority of London buses are hybrid, battery electric or hydrogen. Every now and then, one catches fire (as do the diesel ones). Nobody has been cooked thus far.

The problem, as has been said, is when a battery fire starts its the same or worse than uncontrolled fireworks.

the fire explodes in all directions so even if your running away from the fire you could get caught by the exploding battery cells and its surrounds due to its intensity, playing these fires down could cause someone to become complacent and stand by watching one, which could be fatal and nearly has been..

Weird, then, that a few hybrid buses have caught fire and didn't explode 'like uncontrolled fireworks '.

in other words if I haven`t seen it in real life it doesn`t happen....enough said!

Weird, then, that a few hybrid buses have caught fire and didn't explode 'like uncontrolled fireworks '.

in other words if I haven`t seen it in real life it doesn`t happen....enough said!

Nobody has seen it. There's footage of fires (some in bus garages) and it just hasn't happened.

There was an E scooter on the news that just exploded in front of owner, it was not only in flames but exploding all over the place cctv saw the owner run away from it while it launched white hot bits at him and everywhere else.

If an e scooter or bike can do that what can an EV do

I don't think words like cooked of fried alive are very appropriate. There have been people killed in EV car fires as there have been in house fires caused by scooters and e bikes. There is no need to make any comparison with other forms of transport the fact being they were cased by batteries, but some won't stop to think of that just casualties of life. The question is how soon can safer batteries be invented and more stringent tests made on battery goods being imported

Apparently they don't know the cause of the fire as yet. A serious fire started on a ship that was carrying 3000 cars, 25 of which were electric..

Spud, you aren't keeping up - there were 500 EVs on board, or has the count gone down again ?

I don't think words like cooked of fried alive are very appropriate. There have been people killed in EV car fires as there have been in house fires caused by scooters and e bikes. There is no need to make any comparison with other forms of transport the fact being they were cased by batteries, but some won't stop to think of that just casualties of life. The question is how soon can safer batteries be invented and more stringent tests made on battery goods being imported

Batteries are very safe though - no doubt improvements can be made...smartphone batteries explode as well...but no one seems to be too concerned about those.

I changed the battery in my laptop as it would discharge in less than an hour. The old one was totally distorted which surprised me somewhat. Took it to Morrisons which has a battery disposal bin. Morrisons obviously don't think this is risky or have given it no thought.

""""Yet I expect you keep the dangerous laptop battery inside your house despite the risk it could explode."""

There you go again with a silly remark .Perfectly sensible observation shared here and you poke fun at it. I never said I thought a lap top battery was dangerous or they could explode. I would be very interested if anyone could explain why one might expand and distort though,

When I did IT support for an NHS Trust, the community nurses had some PDA gadget (dunno details as I wasn't involved in that project) powered by button battery's

The spent cells (which still held significant charge) were dumped, loose, in a drawer in our office, pending disposal

I found this a bit alarming, because in a pile, it seemed quite possible a short circuit could randomly form between cells in contact.

Could NOT convince the ladies involved that this was a risk worth worrying about, even using pictures.

Whatever I was on about, it hadn't happened, so it couldnt.

Black Swan Syndrome can get you killed

""""Yet I expect you keep the dangerous laptop battery inside your house despite the risk it could explode."""

There you go again with a silly remark .Perfectly sensible observation shared here and you poke fun at it. I never said I thought a lap top battery was dangerous or they could explode. I would be very interested if anyone could explain why one might expand and distort though,

The battery in your laptop is the same as the ones in cars - just smaller, so if you are worried about the EV batteries surely you would be worried by the laptop one? - but people don't have any issues with having laptops/phones in the house but there now seems to be a panic about EV batteries which is very out of proportion with the actual risk.

As for your batteries this is a good explanation:

www.engineering.com/story/why-do-good-batteries-go...d

Thank you for the link which is very interesting. It seems I have a lot more to worry about particularly my ""detaching IONs"" I am looking for a little window in my laptop where I can keep an eye on the battery. I do not relish taking all those little screws out to keep checking it, Frequently find the odd one on the desk as it is. A nice touch the correct size little screwdriver supplied with the new battery. I think as always I will try to use common sense and not charge it on a soft surface and only when we are in the house. The advice also says not to use it on the mains all the time which I tend to do but I do pull the charger lead when not in use. Phones are charged on the kitchen hardtop.

As for your batteries this is a good explanation:

www.engineering.com/story/why-do-good-batteries-go...d

An artcle almost completly lacking in technical details, like saying a battery swells because it gets bigger.

Dendrite formation is a known issue, see e.g.

www.batterypoweronline.com/news/a-look-inside-your.../

John Cadogan with more on EV battery hazards pertaining to their transporttation and real world use.

youtu.be/XBpcyJeHmww

Seems sound as regards the risk, (since thats demonstrated) and the lack of appropriate planning restrictions.

Less sure that the comparison with a high-test-peroxide-oxidant Soviet torpedo in a nuclear submarine is an entirely valid one.

I mean, its, like, a torpedo, DUDE!

They are EXPECTED to go bang.

That's like, what they are FOR.

But if you MUST have a torpedo comparison, the silver-zinc battery in the Mk37, which is known to have suffered from thermal runaway, would be a better one.

This is one of the hypothesised causes for the loss of the USN Scorpion

Edited by edlithgow on 10/08/2023 at 12:15

There you go again with a silly remark .Perfectly sensible observation shared here and you poke fun at it. I never said I thought a lap top battery was dangerous or they could explode.

Sorry, Sammy, I don't see why you think Alan's remark is 'silly', nor what 'fun' you think he has poked. His observation is just as sensible as yours, but you don't like being challenged.

I explained why. I do not say that what was alleged I said in lawyers speak

Google is our friend (sometimes)

Fire on the Fremantle Highway: Four decks of the freighter are largely undamaged -
including the 500 electric cars. The experts are slowly getting an overview of the condition of the Fremantle Highway,
which caught fire in the Wadden Sea a week ago and was then towed to a Dutch port.
As "Spiegel online" reports, the four top decks of the "Fremantle Highway" are so badly
damaged that you can hardly step on them, said the head of the salvage company
Boskalis, Peter Berdowski, according to media reports on Friday.
It is therefore difficult to salvage the cargo. 2,700 cars destroyed Surprisingly, not all cars died in the fire. According to the experts, around 2,700 of the
approximately 3,800 cars on board have been destroyed and can probably not be
recovered. "Some of the decks are totally merged with the cars," said Berdowski in
Eemshaven in the north-east of the country near the German border. In addition, it has now become clear that the bottom four of the twelve decks are
largely undamaged. Also, about 1,000 cars, including 500 electric ones, are in good
condition at first glance, Berdowski said. But it is still unclear how they can be recovered.
It can therefore be assumed that an electric car was not the cause of the fire,
so the speculation is unfounded. Experts from car manufacturers, including Volkswagen, BMW and Mercedes,
are now to investigate how the vehicles can be transported.

Google.just translated it for me. That is what it says. Given the accuracy of reporting on this story so far, though, I'm reserving judgement.