Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened

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Fri 26 May 2023 23:36
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

I made this post yesterday: www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/181492/lexus-ls---...0. It got some useful responses, and I figured that my experience might help someone else later if they are in a similar boat.

I currently drive a 2007 Lexus GS300 and have been considering upgrading to a LS500h / 7 series / S class. However, after much consideration I decided to simplify the decision process and just stick with Lexus. I figured I already know the brand and have experienced its famed reliability first hand for 9 years and I know that I have not been the most diligent owner of my GS300.

However, it would not be a story without any twist. I have always driven a sedan / saloon and with two small children, the SUVs have a certain appeal. I decided to find a local dealer with both a RX450h and a LS500h (both used) to try and booked an appointment.

We first drive around in RX450h and we found that it felt plenty powerful to go around. The space is enough for 5 adults to sit in smaller rides but very comfortable for 4 full size adults. The heads up display is good, the safety features including the 360 view was quite intuitive and helpful in parallel parking. The storage isn't as much as SUVs of similar size, but again plenty for us and I'd say for most families. Overall a very satisfactory vehicle that is extremely comfortable, very quiet inside even at speed and good storage around the seats for things. Bonus point: the glass roof is quite big, covers front and rear seats - which my older one loved a lot even though it opens only half way. Also, forgot to mention that the Mark Levinson system with 15 speakers sounds really good and even at speed the audio was quite clear because of high quite the cabin was. I have included the list of songs we tried in the end.

Then we sat in LS500h and took our time to make ourself comfortable with the car and its controls. There is a lot going on in this car and I don't mean that in the wrong way. We wanted to make sure that we are experiencing all the key features to be able to make a more informed decision. This time my wife sat in the rear seat with our younger one in her lap and the older one in the other seat next to her. They started the massage as we started and we moved. The car felt faster than the RX, in spite of the larger size and the bigger size of the heads up display seemed much easier to read and follow and even looked much sharper. The music through the 23 speakers of the Mark Levinson reference system was much clearer and the claims about the better soundstage did not seem out of place. The 360 view around the car was not much different than the RX and was equally usable in parallel parking.

The seating in RX was comfortable, but the seats in LS were another level altogether. I turned the massage on in the driver seat and chose the most intense mode, which turned out to be a bit of surprise as it started. It was not fun to see that not only the screen is not touch screen, it is also not touchable as it hides behind a glass. The touchpad control will get some used to, but in the short time we spent in it, I was able to figure out what I needed to do and do it. All in all, something that has a learning curve but not unusable.

As we came around back to the dealership, we decided to go for one more trip round the path that the dealer had recommended. In short, it was a fun test drive. The storage around the seats is plenty in LS, but the boot space is exactly as much in my GS and I knew that going to take the test drive.

Overall, summarizing how I felt at the end of the test drive: RX450h is a perfectly satisfactory vehicle that I can see us using every day and be perfectly content with. It has plenty of space, plays music well, pulls away nicely, can run all day and do all jobs.

LS500h, on the other hand, is a vehicle that makes you feel pampered and happy, very happy. It has decent amount of storage, plenty of sitting space, very comfortable seats, is excellent at playing music, pulls away powerfully, can run all day and then some and can do almost all jobs. If I go to a DIY shop to pick up something long, I will have to rent a vehicle or ask a friend for help as the rear seat does not have a cubby hole.

What's the verdict: When I started typing this, I thought I knew the answer was the LS. However, as I summarized this, I find myself facing the same question that I had before I started this evening to the dealership for the test drives. Not sure if I should be practical and just get LS or if I should be a Vulcan and get the RX.

Any thoughts?

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Sat 27 May 2023 07:09
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Falkirk Bairn

Financially the RX will hold it's value better as it appeals to a wider market. 10 year old cars still have asking prices of £10-15K (Daft car prices just now)

The LS - not that popular - about single figure LS500H s for sale in Autotrader/Lexus site - it's a few months since I saw one on the road.

The LS initial depreciation is huge - can be 50%+ in 2 years

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Sat 27 May 2023 07:13
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - badbusdriver

Well I did say on your last thread that, IMO, as a family car, the RX makes much more sense. But also worth pointing out that you do get a larger 7 seat version, the RX 450h L. You may not feel you need 7 seats, but with them folded away it has a much larger boot (828 vs 539 litres), and there may be times (children's friends staying over?) where the extra 2 seats could come in handy.

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Sat 27 May 2023 07:34
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - gordonbennet
Go with what you need but also what you enjoy, resale value does have merit but seeing the age of your present GS (superb car) i'd argue it's less of a consideration if you keep vehicles till they are considered by many (not me) as old.

The initial pleasure of a new vehicle on a test drive can wear off quickly when you find it's not quite as handy or practical for your normal life.

As regards test routes, i always choose my own because the one the dealer wants you to use shows their vehicles off in the best light, lots of damaged urban roads around here and some severely undulating rural roads, all of which we use every day...if we used the car supermarket in the next town (we visited once, never bought anbd never again) and only ventured up the billiard table smooth dual carriagway one junction and back we'd have no clue how the vehicle would cope with our usage.

One thing about Lexus RX's, get underneath and have good look about to see what the state of subframe etc rust is, if it's in good nick now and you buy it suggest getting it treated with the rustproofing of your choice, they are known for underbody corrosion, also on this point avoid cars that have lived in Scotland which will have seen excess salt...this is especially pertinent now because so many vehicles stood for long periods in warm weather during the i****ic national house arrest for renamed flue so the winter's salt will have had months of hot weather to wreak its worse.

Edited by gordonbennet on 27/05/2023 at 07:35

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Sat 27 May 2023 08:51
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Adampr

Get the one you want. You will grow to hate any car you buy because it's sensible.

Speaking of sensible, you shouldn't be driving around with a child sat on an adult's lap unless it's an emergency. You will get in a lot of trouble for that

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Sat 27 May 2023 08:57
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

Child on lap for short unplanned trips is allowed as long as the seat belt holds their torso but not over their shoulders. However, I acknowledge what you say and in our own car, it is never the case.

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Sat 27 May 2023 09:20
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - badbusdriver

Child on lap for short unplanned trips is allowed as long as the seat belt holds their torso but not over their shoulders.

Don't know where you have got that from, but I pretty certain it is not legal in the UK under any circumstances. Common sense also dictates the stupidity of doing that because in the event of an accident, the child would have the weight of the adult, multiplied by whatever 'G' de-acceleration results from it, pressing them against the seat belt which will have locked in place. Which could easily result in death or life changing injuries.

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Sat 27 May 2023 10:36
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

Child on lap for short unplanned trips is allowed as long as the seat belt holds their torso but not over their shoulders.

Don't know where you have got that from, but I pretty certain it is not legal in the UK under any circumstances. Common sense also dictates the stupidity of doing that because in the event of an accident, the child would have the weight of the adult, multiplied by whatever 'G' de-acceleration results from it, pressing them against the seat belt which will have locked in place. Which could easily result in death or life changing injuries.

I tend to trust the gov.uk for reference on what law allows (www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/when-a-child-...t). If you have a source higher than that, then happy to read that too.

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Sat 27 May 2023 10:43
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - gordonbennet
The gov adviced far as i can understand it allows the use of an adult belt if no proper child seat is available, meant to be temporary as better than nothing, in taxis etc.

It doesn't advise having a child on an adults lap and, presumably, a seat belt around both bodies, the idea of which fills me with horror knowing what forces would be exerted on the childs body in the event of an accident.
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Sat 27 May 2023 14:42
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

How would those forces be any different if the child was made to sit by themselves without an adult holding them? How would a child be able to balance themselves in case of an accident if they are sitting all by themselves?

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Sun 28 May 2023 00:05
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - alan1302

How would those forces be any different if the child was made to sit by themselves without an adult holding them? How would a child be able to balance themselves in case of an accident if they are sitting all by themselves?

If you have a child on your lap in a crash the force of your body smashes into the childs. If they were not on your lap the force of the crash pushes them into the belt without an adult crushing them.

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Sat 27 May 2023 14:44
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

It doesn't say a child cannot be on adult's lap either.

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Sat 27 May 2023 10:50
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - badbusdriver

Child on lap for short unplanned trips is allowed as long as the seat belt holds their torso but not over their shoulders.

Don't know where you have got that from, but I pretty certain it is not legal in the UK under any circumstances. Common sense also dictates the stupidity of doing that because in the event of an accident, the child would have the weight of the adult, multiplied by whatever 'G' de-acceleration results from it, pressing them against the seat belt which will have locked in place. Which could easily result in death or life changing injuries.

I tend to trust the gov.uk for reference on what law allows (www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/when-a-child-...t). If you have a source higher than that, then happy to read that too.

That says nothing at all about a child being allowed to sit on an adults lap!.

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Sat 27 May 2023 14:44
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

Or not being allowed on an adult's lap. Both scenarios are allowed - as people deem correct using their own common sense.

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Sat 27 May 2023 17:19
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Wee Willie Winkie

I would respectfully suggest you have no common sense if you think it's appropriate, or legal to have a child sitting on an adult's lap with the belt around both.

Think of what happens in an accident. An adult is thrown forward, stopped only by a seatbelt. Oh, and in your case the squishy child between the adult and the belt.

It doesn't say you can't put a child in the boot either, but you wouldn't do that, would you? Or maybe you would.

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Tue 30 May 2023 18:01
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

I would respectfully suggest you have no common sense if you think it's appropriate, or legal to have a child sitting on an adult's lap with the belt around both.

Think of what happens in an accident. An adult is thrown forward, stopped only by a seatbelt. Oh, and in your case the squishy child between the adult and the belt.

It doesn't say you can't put a child in the boot either, but you wouldn't do that, would you? Or maybe you would.

You're all bark and no bite. Quote me sources or GTFO.

The link I shared before mentions that short trips can be done without the child being in the car seat. Now see this link which explicitly mentions that a child can sit directly on the car seat without the car seat and with seat belt on if they are 12 years old or 135 cm tall whichever is earlier: www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules

Now put the two rules together and tell me how does your brain compute that the yound child cannot be put on a lap? All your assertions about safety are based on what?

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Tue 30 May 2023 19:49
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Adampr

I would respectfully suggest you have no common sense if you think it's appropriate, or legal to have a child sitting on an adult's lap with the belt around both.

Think of what happens in an accident. An adult is thrown forward, stopped only by a seatbelt. Oh, and in your case the squishy child between the adult and the belt.

It doesn't say you can't put a child in the boot either, but you wouldn't do that, would you? Or maybe you would.

You're all bark and no bite. Quote me sources or GTFO.

The link I shared before mentions that short trips can be done without the child being in the car seat. Now see this link which explicitly mentions that a child can sit directly on the car seat without the car seat and with seat belt on if they are 12 years old or 135 cm tall whichever is earlier: www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules

Now put the two rules together and tell me how does your brain compute that the yound child cannot be put on a lap? All your assertions about safety are based on what?

Trying to put this to bed in case someone reads it in future. The law is completely clear that a child has to be in an appropriate seat.

There are exceptions around taxis and other types of passenger vehicle, but it is only acceptable in a private car if the journey is unexpected, necessary and short. A test drive would qualify as short, but not the other two.

If the exemption did apply to a test drive, the requirements would then be: for a child over 3 - adult seat belt, for a child under 3 - no seat belt. Presumably the risk of spinal injury in a restrained child under 3 is considered higher than the risk of them bouncing around the cabin.

The fact that the law doesn't explicitly say they can't be on your lap is irrelevant as it does explicitly say they must be on a seat. There are examples of people being convicted for travelling with a child in their lap across the internet.

The reason why it is dangerous is that, as stated, a child sitting on a lap would be crushed between the adult and the seat belt in the event of an accident.

I wish I'd never made what I thought was an innocuous aside just pointing out that it wasn't a good idea, but here we are. No harm done in this instance.

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Sun 28 May 2023 09:29
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Andrew-T

Or not being allowed on an adult's lap. Both scenarios are allowed - as people deem correct using their own common sense.

If we are talking about common sense, you should use your own and realise the difference between a small person being seated in a fixed belt, and sharing that belt with another larger person. There's no contest in any serious accident.

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Sat 27 May 2023 13:02
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Crickleymal

Child on lap for short unplanned trips is allowed as long as the seat belt holds their torso but not over their shoulders.

Don't know where you have got that from, but I pretty certain it is not legal in the UK under any circumstances. Common sense also dictates the stupidity of doing that because in the event of an accident, the child would have the weight of the adult, multiplied by whatever 'G' de-acceleration results from it, pressing them against the seat belt which will have locked in place. Which could easily result in death or life changing injuries.

I tend to trust the gov.uk for reference on what law allows (www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/when-a-child-...t). If you have a source higher than that, then happy to read that too.

Nowhere does that say a child can be on an adult's lap especially not with a seat belt round both. That's lunacy. On airliners a child is in a special harness attached to the adult's seat belt

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Sat 27 May 2023 14:37
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - movilogo

That gov.uk link says only when emergency or unexpected journey.

A test drive is neither emergency nor unexpected (as it was planned). So if caught it is liable to a fine and it is not safe either.

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Sat 27 May 2023 15:12
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Palcouk

I started off with an LS400, having previously had a number of MB's, LS was a good car, but the full history stated wasnt, after about a year, had a strange front wheel vibration, disks/pads changed all good for about 12 months when th problem repeated. Px'd for an S class from main dealer, comfortable but mechanicaly a disaster. Took dealer to court, re new torque converter. Got rid o the car, later finished up with GS, then RX, finaly NX as I'm now retired. Tried the UX but too small.

The Lexus dealers have all been excelent even when car purchased elsewhere.

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Sat 27 May 2023 17:33
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Lee Power

RX450h really need some additional security protection as there easy to steal via the CAN invader theft method.

Lexus do offer a 2nd immobiliser system in there aftermarket catalogue that a main dealer can fit - don't bother the system is useless / a waste of money.

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Sat 27 May 2023 17:47
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - skidpan

Or not being allowed on an adult's lap. Both scenarios are allowed - as people deem correct using their own common sense.

They are not allowed in the UK, that is why there are child seat laws.

Edited by _ORB_ on 28/05/2023 at 07:39

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Sat 27 May 2023 22:24
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

Or not being allowed on an adult's lap. Both scenarios are allowed - as people deem correct using their own common sense.

They are not allowed in the UK, that is why there are child seat laws.

Quote the law explicitly ...

Others have posted links about the Law. As said above, A Test drive is not an emergency.

Whatever you think, read up about unattached infants and children being ejected from cars, or ending up shooting into the front of the car and being seriously injured.

I have personal experience of seeing a seriously injured child after such an accident.

ORB Moderator.

Edited by _ORB_ on 28/05/2023 at 07:45

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Sat 27 May 2023 22:30
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

Thanks! I will read up on it, this is concerning.

Is there an aftermarket update from that works well?

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Sun 28 May 2023 05:56
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Lee Power

Thanks! I will read up on it, this is concerning.

Is there an aftermarket update from that works well?

Steering wheel lock is one option for entry level security which is very popular.

I've got a C-HR which is also vulnerable to the same issue, so I did plenty of research.

If you look on Toyota / Lexus forums you will see several posts where people have had aftermarket security fitted to a hybrid then suffered multiple problems with warning messages or even the hybrid system not working, usually ends up with the owner having the system removed again.

You need a fitter / company that has studied the way the Toyota / Lexus hybrid works & understands there quirks.

Toyota / Lexus hybrids are difficult to immobilise successfully with an aftermarket security system.

A lot of fitters immobilise the start / stop button, stops a casual thief but doesn't stop a CAN invader or OBD theft as those methods bypass that button.

It can be done successfully, I know of a automotive security company that has designed a bespoke security system for Toyota / Lexus hybrids which will stop CAN invader & OBD port theft methods from working.

Lexus are apparently working on metal security plates to stop access to the wiring, there is rumours of a customer service campaign to retrofit them to existing vehicles but I've not seen anything official from Lexus yet.

Toyota / Lexus have allegedly fixed the issue, if the vehicle has Toyota / Lexus safety sense 3 fitted then AFAIK the CAN system security hasn't been cracked - yet.

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Sat 27 May 2023 22:29
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

I started off with an LS400, having previously had a number of MB's, LS was a good car, but the full history stated wasnt, after about a year, had a strange front wheel vibration, disks/pads changed all good for about 12 months when th problem repeated. Px'd for an S class from main dealer, comfortable but mechanicaly a disaster. Took dealer to court, re new torque converter. Got rid o the car, later finished up with GS, then RX, finaly NX as I'm now retired. Tried the UX but too small.

The Lexus dealers have all been excelent even when car purchased elsewhere.

Sorry to hear that. I had to take the dealer to court regarding my GS when I purchased it about 10 years ago. They sold it to me with seized calipers and the breaks were making a rattling sound within a month of purchase.

But once that was done, the life with GS was very always very simple. Once a year service for oil and filter changes and that's it.

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Sat 27 May 2023 20:50
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Xileno

I can't see it's sensible but we've given the OP enough advice about the child on lap issue, together with the gov website link. It's up to them now. Can we get back to discussing the choice of cars the OP mentions. It's great to have someone return with an update, not all do and it's frustrating.

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Sat 27 May 2023 22:26
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

Everyone's losing their mind over a half mile loop around the dealership. May be that's why most people don't come back with an update. I know I wouldn't about what I end up buying and how it goes from there on.

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Sat 27 May 2023 23:53
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - SLO76
Back to the original subject. How long do you plan on keeping the car?
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Tue 30 May 2023 17:58
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

Looking at my track record with previous cars, about 10 years.

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Tue 30 May 2023 22:25
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - SLO76

Looking at my track record with previous cars, about 10 years.

The only big concern with the LS is depreciation. No one wants a large saloon that’s heavy on fuel, insurance, road tax etc when they’re on a budget and thus these drop like a stone in value. If however you intend on long term ownership then this isn’t really an issue so I’d buy the better driving, more comfortable LS rather than going with the dynamically compromised SUV option. The LS is glorious thing, absolute luxury, smooth as silk, bags of go and built to last. Get the better car and enjoy it, just don’t expect it to be worth anything at the other end.

Edited by SLO76 on 30/05/2023 at 22:26

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Sun 28 May 2023 07:01
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - Oli rag

Everyone's losing their mind over a half mile loop around the dealership. May be that's why most people don't come back with an update. I know I wouldn't about what I end up buying and how it goes from there on.

My thoughts entirely. Stop giving people “advice” about things they didn’t ask about.

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Sun 28 May 2023 09:29
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - movilogo

Majority of Toyota/Lexus CAN invader attacked attacked RAV4 mostly in UK. In North America lots of Lexuses were nicked using this method but so much in UK.

You can also try Genesis G80 (saloon) or GV80 (SUV). Plenty of luxury kits and servicing included in price.

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Tue 30 May 2023 18:03
Lexus LS, Lexus RX450h - I tried LS500h and RX450h, here's what happened - S Gupta

Majority of Toyota/Lexus CAN invader attacked attacked RAV4 mostly in UK. In North America lots of Lexuses were nicked using this method but so much in UK.

You can also try Genesis G80 (saloon) or GV80 (SUV). Plenty of luxury kits and servicing included in price.

Looked at Genesis, the looks seem "inspired" heavily from other brands and have never been a big fan of hyundai or korean cars in general.

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