2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug.

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Wed 26 Apr 2023 14:52
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - John F

Some here may remember my saga of the irremovable Peugeot wheel locking bolt, renowned (and perhaps welcomed) in the trade as sometimes needing welding expertise to extract. (Memo to Peugeot - learn from Ford).

After its recent oil change, I noticed a small circle of oil on the ground under the sump - so I tightened the plug a bit more. No luck, so I drained the oil into a clean container for reuse and inspected the offending plug. Lo and behold, after a mere four tightenings (once at the factory, once (possibly) at the first 1yr garage service, and two by me (10k and 20k miles), the presumably single use squashable copper curtain ring had been reduced to a nanometric sliver of uselessness.

The sump plug of our old Ford Focus, after well over a dozen retightenings, went to the scrapyard with its well designed sump plug and thick intrinsic alloy washer intact. Having to replace a washer every time is so-o-o last century. (Memo to Peugeot - learn from Ford, and think what comes before the words ......'ha'porth of tar').

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Wed 26 Apr 2023 15:21
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - elekie&a/c doctor
Think yourself lucky it’s not one of those plastic sump and drain plug with twist and lock system. Use once only .
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Wed 26 Apr 2023 16:08
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - Chris M
I always think the Fiat tapered thread sump bolt is a good solution assuming some ham fisted monkey doesn't over tighten it. No washer - lasts as long as the car or until the sump rusts through.

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Wed 26 Apr 2023 16:34
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - skidpan

The sump plug on the Zetec 2 litre in the Caterham uses a thick, hard white nylon washer. Bought it new in 2001 when I first fitted a Zetec. Still using the same washer.

When I had the Golf GTi's and was doing 2 changes a year (20,000+ annual mileage) I fitted a new copper washer every time. It was the thick type (not a crush one) and never had an issue. Compared to the cost of oil (I used VAG Quantum) and a filter the washer cost about 2% of the total cost.

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Wed 26 Apr 2023 19:01
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - paul 1963

For the cost of a new washer or indeed a 'whole' new sump plug I really can't understand why one would try to reuse a old one, as I think I've mentioned before I'm in the motor parts business and 99% of our customers when buying a service kit ask for a new plug kit or washer.

John, in the spirit of forum friendliness if you get a mod to pass me your details including your vehicle reg I'll send you a brand new shiny sump plug kit...for free!!!

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Wed 26 Apr 2023 19:08
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - Jamie Slinn

I totally get what you're saying about Ford being the real MVP here. Their Focus has got it going on with that sump plug design and thick alloy washer. No need to replace the washer every time - talk about being eco-friendly, am I right? Peugeot needs to take a page from Ford's book and get their act together. Here's hoping they come up with a better design soon.

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 08:31
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - skidpan

I totally get what you're saying about Ford being the real MVP here. Their Focus has got it going on with that sump plug design and thick alloy washer. No need to replace the washer every time - talk about being eco-friendly, am I right? Peugeot needs to take a page from Ford's book and get their act together. Here's hoping they come up with a better design soon.

Does this look like more nonsense or is it just me.

I totally get what you're saying about Ford being the real MVP here

What does that mean?

Their Focus has got it going on with that sump plug design and thick alloy washer

Who in the real world would say that?

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 10:05
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - FP

"Does this look like more nonsense or is it just me."

Looks like more computer-generated stuff to me. It erroneously includes US semi-slang; "MVP" in sporting circles means "most valued player". I assume "got it going on" is also US informal English.

It all kind of makes sense, but is empty of any substantial meaning.

Edited by FP on 27/04/2023 at 10:06

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 23:41
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - edlithgow

"Does this look like more nonsense or is it just me."

Looks like more computer-generated stuff to me. It erroneously includes US semi-slang; "MVP" in sporting circles means "most valued player". I assume "got it going on" is also US informal English.

It all kind of makes sense, but is empty of any substantial meaning.

Well, Americans, you know?

Might sometimes set a rather low bar for the AI.

Chinglish ditto (but different)

Thats why I'm quite impressed .with our local robot stalker with the lady's name. ALMOST convincing, which is quite worrying,

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 08:27
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - John F

John, in the spirit of forum friendliness if you get a mod to pass me your details including your vehicle reg I'll send you a brand new shiny sump plug kit...for free!!!

That's a very kind offer - but don't worry - I have a small washer drawer containing a collecton of at least 60yrs worth of various types of washer, so for me it was merely a minor irritation.

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Wed 26 Apr 2023 23:13
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - Andrew-T

John, I used to get several uses out of one copper washer by wrapping it with plumbers' PTFE tape when it was impossible to squash it further. Now I buy a pack of 5 washers for little money and use them once each ....

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 09:11
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - bathtub tom

John, I used to get several uses out of one copper washer

I re-used a copper washer several times by annealing it (heat it on the gas cooker and dunk it in cold water) until someone here pointed out it was a crush washer. Once crushed it looked like a washer!

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 04:11
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - edlithgow
So last century? It is not my perception that automotive trends are in the direction of greater maintainability this century.

Replaced my existing copper plus RTV with an aluminum one which looks like being reusable if not overtightened, but I had to ask around a bit, which would have been awkward if I was in the middle of a 10min max oil change
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Thu 27 Apr 2023 06:38
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - madf

Our 20 year old Toyota Yaris is on its original (?) plug washer despite annual oil changes.

It may have been changed in its first 5 years of Toyota services. Then DIY.

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 12:22
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - Chris M

My Astra uses an O Ring with a extra bit on the inside which grips the thread like these:

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123681770624?mkcid=16&mkevt...Y

When the car was last serviced by Vauxhall in 2019 they charged £4.20 for one. I bought some off eBay!

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 13:20
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - Gibbo_Wirral

OP spammed Peugeotforums.com with this rant too.

To recap:

You don't need welding to take off locking wheel nuts. Any garage or indy tyre fitter with the tools and the skill can easily sort it without welding. They're usually the ones who torque up a wheel by hand instead of using a gun.

And if you're not smart enough to buy the 30p sump plug washer when you buy the filter and oil, then its your own fault.

As for Peugeot taking a leaf from Fords book - you are aware that Ford use / used Peugeot engines for years?

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 27/04/2023 at 13:22

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 19:34
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - paul 1963

If it helps to put this latest chapter of John's scrimping to bed it must be remembered that what is referred to as a washer is actually a seal, personally I think Peugeot designed it perfectly, as mentioned above its a single use 30p ( at best) component.

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 20:03
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - Brit_in_Germany

Or a gasket. Back in the days when I was in research, the UHV chambers were sealed by knife-edge flanges and copper gaskets. Needless to say, money was saved by re-using them as long as possible but a vacuum check showed when the game was up.

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 23:22
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - John F

If it helps to put this latest chapter of John's scrimping to bed it must be remembered that what is referred to as a washer is actually a seal,

I think most on here are aware that washer is.......

......'a small flat metal, rubber, or plastic ring fixed between two joining surfaces or between a nut and a bolt to spread the pressure or act as a spacer or seal.'......OED

personally I think Peugeot designed it perfectly, as mentioned above its a single use 30p ( at best) component.

So you think something that fails to perform after such a short time is 'perfectly designed'? Imagine the boardroom conversation - 'Alors, j'ai un idee brllliant, - reagardez le nouveau sump plug seal qui necessaire replacement chacun et every time c'etait removed....'

'Tres bien Emile - vous etes un design ingenieur par excellence....prenez un pay rise'...

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Fri 28 Apr 2023 13:20
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - Gibbo_Wirral

So you think something that fails to perform after such a short time is 'perfectly designed'?

Considering Peugeot recommended intervals of two years between oil changes, I wouldn't consider that a "short time"

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 23:05
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - John F

OP spammed Peugeotforums.com with this rant too.

I didn't 'spam' and the following is not my 'rant'. It is a loyal Peugeot forum poster's response to my essay. What the responder (ranter) doesn't seem to have appreciated is the inability of a presumably skilled and well equipped garage (the local Peugeot dealer) to remove, without resorting to welding, a locking bolt which had never been removed since it left the dealer's premises.

To recap:

You don't need welding to take off locking wheel nuts. Any garage or indy tyre fitter with the tools and the skill can easily sort it without welding. They're usually the ones who torque up a wheel by hand instead of using a gun.......

I wonder how many unfortunate Peugeot owners have been stranded after a puncture because the combination of badly designed locking bolts and the provision of a short angled wrench unfit for the purpose of removing them has escalated a simple wheel change to the expense and hassle of having to send for a rescue service.

.....As for Peugeot taking a leaf from Fords book - you are aware that Ford use / used Peugeot engines for years?

No, I wasn't - and I fail to see the relevance of this question. If a Peugeot designed sump plug is/was in a Ford car, it's still a PDSP.

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Thu 27 Apr 2023 23:48
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - edlithgow

Does this PDSP mean Ford isn't the MVP, QED?

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Fri 28 Apr 2023 15:48
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - Lee Power

As somebody that has owned a lot of Peugeot vehicles over the years, first thing any sensible person does when acquiring one is remove the factory locking wheel bolts as the removal key has usually been damaged by some tyre fitting / mechanic monkey using air tools.

I've removed a few sets over the years for friends.

Also - who reuses a sump bung washer? There dirt cheap & designed to be single use only, just buy a new one with the replacement filter OR better yet buy a pack of 10 washers if the car is a keeper.

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Fri 28 Apr 2023 16:27
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - Adampr

As somebody that has owned a lot of Peugeot vehicles over the years, first thing any sensible person does when acquiring one is remove the factory locking wheel bolts as the removal key has usually been damaged by some tyre fitting / mechanic monkey using air tools.

I've removed a few sets over the years for friends.

Also - who reuses a sump bung washer? There dirt cheap & designed to be single use only, just buy a new one with the replacement filter OR better yet buy a pack of 10 washers if the car is a keeper.

The counterpoint to this, and John's point in the first place, is what kind of manufacturer sells cars where the locking wheel bolts need to be removed because they're inadequate or uses single use washers when reusable alternatives are available?

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Fri 28 Apr 2023 16:53
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - skidpan

The counterpoint to this, and John's point in the first place, is what kind of manufacturer sells cars where the locking wheel bolts need to be removed because they're inadequate or uses single use washers when reusable alternatives are available?

Most issues with locking wheelnuts are caused by the user or a garage overtightening them. The manufacturer cannot control either of these.

With regards to single use washers, in my experience they are pretty common and very inexpensive.

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Fri 28 Apr 2023 20:03
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - paul 1963

The counterpoint to this, and John's point in the first place, is what kind of manufacturer sells cars where the locking wheel bolts need to be removed because they're inadequate or uses single use washers when reusable alternatives are available?

Most issues with locking wheelnuts are caused by the user or a garage overtightening them. The manufacturer cannot control either of these.

With regards to single use washers, in my experience they are pretty common and very inexpensive.

Exactly....

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Fri 28 Apr 2023 18:48
2019 Peugeot 2008 - Peugeot unsatisfactory design no.2 -the sump plug. - Andrew-T

As somebody that has owned a lot of Peugeot vehicles over the years, first thing any sensible person does when acquiring one is remove the factory locking wheel bolts as the removal key has usually been damaged by some tyre fitting / mechanic monkey using air tools..

As somebody who may well have owned even more Peugeots (22 at the last count) I only removed the locking bolts from my 207SW after 14 years of ownership. I never had trouble with them and got a tenner for them on E-bay last year.

EDIT - when I bought that car from a Pug dealer back in 2008, the key for the locking bolts was taped to the spanner which is part of the spare-wheel kit. That probably prevented any misbehaviour by clumsy fitters.

Edited by Andrew-T on 28/04/2023 at 23:03

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