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2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - John F

3y6m old at exactly 20,000 miles, time for oil and filter change, last done by me at 10,000miles. I've read that these engines can be oil burners, so I'm keeping a watchful eye on it having run it in carefully since new. Bosch 451 103 355 filter replaced by Mann W7058 and old Castrol Magnatec 0-30 stop/start drained and replaced with 3.5 l new (no expense spared - only the best for our little baby engine!). It comes in 4 lt cans and I had 500mls spare, so I only needed 3 lts from the new can - the remaining 1 litre poured into an airtight 1l bottle for future use.

After the hot stream of dark brown had stopped and become just a drip every few seconds, I put a clean tray underneath and left it for two hours, after putting a jack under the driver's side to tilt the car slightly to ensure maximum drainage. A further 140mls of black crud came out. I then left it overnight, and in the morning there was another 20mls of grot - better out than in. No garage will be so meticulous. I'm surprised that some 'official' advice recommends even greater mileages between oil changes. I shall continue with my 10k regime.

It takes around one litre to raise the level from minimum through 40mm to the max mark on the dipstick, around 25mls per mm. I had put in exactly 3.5l at 10,000 miles to reach the max mark. The pre-drain level was almost exactly half way, so around 500mls was burnt over 10,000 miles equating to a consumption of 1litre per 20,000 miles, give or take say 10% observer error. I think this is reasonable and presume it to be typical of a well built tiny turbo 3cyl engine using low vicosity oil. Anyway, early days.....

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Metropolis.

Interesting and good to hear of a thorough job, Lexus also recommend 10,000 mile changes on the v6s.
2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Brit_in_Germany

The oil level might not be a useful indicator. In the link I posted in the 5008 thread, one of the problems is thought to be fuel mixing with the oil, leading to the timing belt rotting. This might mask any loss of oil.

Edited by Brit_in_Germany on 22/04/2023 at 12:21

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Metropolis.
Could be worth an occasional oil analysis then, I think they can be done in the mail.
2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - edlithgow
Could be worth an occasional oil analysis then, I think they can be done in the mail.

Could be, butr most standard oil analyses don't report on particulates. They report on wear metals, based on flame photometry of the oil.

This won't be directly relevent to this problem, though if the oil strainer was blocked this MIGHT result in elevated wear metals before total failure.

You'd be lucky to catch that as a warning sign though

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - skidpan

Our Fabia 1.0 TSi 110 PS has just had its 5 year service. The oil level has not dropped between any service (yet). It still looked golden when I last checked it in late March.

If oil on a Peugeot Puretech petrol is getting dirty I would be concerned that the known cam belt issue is waiting to bite you.

Its not like years ago when oil was crap, petrol was crap and overuse use of the manual choke contaminated the oil. Not had dirty oil out of a petrol since the 80's. Even the oil from the 2 litre Zetec in the Caterham stays golden after 2 years.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - paul 1963

Our Fabia 1.0 TSi 110 PS has just had its 5 year service. The oil level has not dropped between any service (yet). It still looked golden when I last checked it in late March.

If oil on a Peugeot Puretech petrol is getting dirty I would be concerned that the known cam belt issue is waiting to bite you.

Its not like years ago when oil was crap, petrol was crap and overuse use of the manual choke contaminated the oil. Not had dirty oil out of a petrol since the 80's. Even the oil from the 2 litre Zetec in the Caterham stays golden after 2 years.

I agree Skidpan, oil in a modern petrol really shouldn't get that dirty, as for the sludge/ crud that would worry me, maybe time to look at the timing belt John?

Obviously likes a drink as well, both my Vitara, 6745 miles and my Berlingo van, 97805 miles use no oil.

Edited by paul 1963 on 22/04/2023 at 14:42

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - gordonbennet
Like minds.
Landcruiser currently dripping into the oil drain can, will inspect the pick up strainer (directly over the plug hole) before refilling.
Fortunately the Toyota Diesel drains very well, once running again its nearly 1000 miles before the oil starts to get dirty again.

Good job you didn't have Ford's 5 cyl Ranger, oil has to be replenished within 15 minutes because the oil pump can't self prime, no its not April !st this howler is absolutely genuine, first heard about it from John Cadogan, i'm told there is a similar issue with the 1 litre engine...quite how you're supposed to do any sump or similar work i don't know, there must be a method of oil priming because the engines were all new once...a complication one doesn't need and which ruled the Ford 5 cyl out of consideration when we thought briefly about replacing the Toyota, which is now 18 years old.

I wouldn't be too worried about the oil being mucky, its already been in far too long for my liking, i'd start having panic attacks the wrong side of 5k miles :-), hopefully you have a dipstick to keep an eye on things, regarding possible contamination i might be inclined to keep a generous sample from several levels of the drainings in a sealed bottle just in case.
2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Chris M

"there must be a method of oil priming because the engines were all new once"

Obviously there's a factory method but I think I read that the DIY method is to overfill the oil until the pump is submerged, turn the engine over to prime, then drain the excess.

John F mentioning a Mann W7058 filter made me check the price - around £7. My 1.0T Astra uses a W7056 and is around double the price. What can be so different? Perhaps the Peugeot one is cheaper because it's unable to catch small pieces of cambelt ;)

Edited by Chris M on 22/04/2023 at 16:02

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - gordonbennet
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Obviously there's a factory method but I think I read that the DIY method is to overfill the oil until the pump is submerged, turn the engine over to prime, then drain the excess.

So if you've bought one of those the first accessory you presumably buy is a Fumoto Quick Drain Valve, to make the above scenerio not as potentially driveway destroying as it might otherwise be, oh and buy oil in bulk..:-) edit, oil strainer clean as a baby's bum, 7 litres of Fuchs finest now installed, very difficult to read the dipstick so clean is the oil.

Edited by gordonbennet on 22/04/2023 at 16:41

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - John F

John F mentioning a Mann W7058 filter made me check the price - around £7. My 1.0T Astra uses a W7056 and is around double the price. What can be so different? Perhaps the Peugeot one is cheaper because it's unable to catch small pieces of cambelt ;)

The W7058 was £5.70 from GSF car parts in Northampton.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Chris M

"The W7058 was £5.70 from GSF car parts in Northampton"

Well the W7056 is £13.38 from GSF with the current 65% off code. ECP want £27.49 (no big discount codes with them anymore)!!! Can't believe they sell many at that price.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - edlithgow
Good job you didn't have Ford's 5 cyl Ranger, oil has to be replenished within 15 minutes because the oil pump can't self prime, no its not April !st this howler is absolutely genuine, first heard about it from John Cadogan,

Actually, IIRC, you first heard about it from me.

I first heard about it from John Cadogan, though his "take" was rather disapproving of people (like us) wingeing about it rather than the procedure itself.

He is, however, rather of the "new cars are inevitably in all respects better" school of...er...thought.

I would be worried about the oil being mucky, because, as described, it sounds like this muck is a sediment, which suggests its denjser than the bulk oil and in relatively large bits.

I don't know if belt-in-oil derived detritus would meet that description, but if I had one of these I'd be interested in finding out.

If you do a "blotter spot test" using laser printer paper, as the oil ages you get an additional dark ring on the chromatogram, which I assume is wear debris and/or coke.

I thought this might make an interesting student project, and did some preliminary fiddling about doing scans of digital photographs of chromatographs, and could detact various quantitative and qualitative changes during thermal decomposition of vegetable oil (as a model system )

That course was scrapped by the university, so I havn't been motivated to take it further. but I think the method has potential.

Edited by edlithgow on 23/04/2023 at 05:28

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - John F

If oil on a Peugeot Puretech petrol is getting dirty I would be concerned that the known cam belt issue is waiting to bite you.

I agree Skidpan, oil in a modern petrol really shouldn't get that dirty, as for the sludge/ crud that would worry me, maybe time to look at the timing belt John?

Obviously likes a drink as well, both my Vitara, 6745 miles and my Berlingo van, 97805 miles use no oil.

Perhaps I overemphasized the dirtiness - it was no worse than other 10K mile oil changes I have done. Re the 'BIO' cambelt - I'm well aware of the history; the belt looks OK - the crumbling was sorted some years ago.

All ICEs burn oil to a greater or lesser degree.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Steveieb

John

Could this be the same Puretech engine that eats timing belts which run in oil and disintegrate over time?

If so a local garage in Northampton always removes the sump to clear out all the remnants of the belt material not collected in the filter , just to make sure the bits don’t circulate once the new oil is filled . They carry out this procedure on every oil change .

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - John F

John

Could this be the same Puretech engine that eats timing belts which run in oil and disintegrate over time?

Yes. Can't understand how Peugeot got lumbered with so many badly made cambelts unfit for purpose. Goodness knows who the suppliers were. They seem to have kept it quiet. Chinese, perhaps - like the alloy wheels stamped 'made in China'- which I don't think will age as well as those on our old Ford Focus. Anyway, it had been sorted by 2018 but it must have cost them millions....

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - daveyK_UK
Still can’t find the exact date and engine number the latest version of the 1.2 puretech was put into production

If anyone can help, please do

So far the latest revision of this engine has been trouble free but it’s early days
2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - skidpan

Perhaps I overemphasized the dirtiness - it was no worse than other 10K mile oil changes I have done. Re the 'BIO' cambelt - I'm well aware of the history; the belt looks OK - the crumbling was sorted some years ago.

Its the words in your original post that worry me

A further 140mls of black crud came out. I then left it overnight, and in the morning there was another 20mls of grot

I have not seen anything like that come out of an engine in over 40 years that has had regular oil changes. In the 35 years I have owned Caterhams I have had 4 engines as I have upgraded them and taken off the sump I have never seen anything other than a small amount of residual oil that gets left behind after draining. Just remember that between 1988 and 2004 all those engines had twin 45 Weber carbs which whilst set up correctly were nowhere near as clean or efficient as the fuel injection used these days.

The first 2 litre Zetec I bought from a scrapyard (£150) had allegedly done 63,000 miles in its Mondeo home. When I took the cam cover off it looked beautiful, then removed the sump (without turning the engine over to ensure any crud did not get where it should not be) and it was way better than I expected after seeing many 1970's cross flow sumps.

With modern oils (synthetic or semi-synthetic) there should be no "crud or grot" after 20,000 miles.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - gordonbennet
Like this John

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU6zYEozL3E

:-)
2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - John F
Like this John www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU6zYEozL3E :-)

Er - not quite! Reminds me of over 20yrs ago removing similar looking solidified gunge from a son's old Peugeot 309 OHV engine with a dessert spoon. It was sounding like a can of nails so I had removed the rocker cover to adjust the valve clearances.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - John F

Perhaps I overemphasized the dirtiness - it was no worse than other 10K mile oil changes I have done.

Its the words in your original post that worry me

'A further 140mls of black crud came out. I then left it overnight, and in the morning there was another 20mls of grot'

With modern oils (synthetic or semi-synthetic) there should be no "crud or grot" after 20,000 miles.

crud definition: 1. something dirty and unpleasant

grot1

noun

INFORMAL•BRITISH

  1. somethingunpleasant, dirty, or of poor quality

I would be very surprised if, after 20,000 miles, after draining the bulk of the oil, then leaving it to drip for a few hours, the resulting effluent was a lighter colour than liquid Bovril. Anyway, in my case there was no evidence of any particulate matter in the grot suggestive of BIO crumbling, which was reassuring....and I would never dream of going that far without an oil change!

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Crickleymal

Perhaps I overemphasized the dirtiness - it was no worse than other 10K mile oil changes I have done. Re the 'BIO' cambelt - I'm well aware of the history; the belt looks OK - the crumbling was sorted some years ago.

Its the words in your original post that worry me

A further 140mls of black crud came out. I then left it overnight, and in the morning there was another 20mls of grot

I have not seen anything like that come out of an engine in over 40 years that has had regular oil changes.

Yes but do you leave your engines to drain overnight and canted up to get the last little bit out?

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Chris M

"Yes but do you leave your engines to drain overnight and canted up to get the last little bit out?"

The answer's in the OP.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - sammy1

Friends 2008 is on 80k plus miles and its oil consumption is high. It has had the cambelt changed. I wonder what engine flush might do to the belts running in oil but probably not in the engine long enough to do any harm. Surprised the OP sticks to 10k oil changes and is so meticulous about getting the last drop out. I think with lower mileage a more frequent change might be better.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Crickleymal

"Yes but do you leave your engines to drain overnight and canted up to get the last little bit out?"

The answer's in the OP.

But I was replying to Skidpan

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - skidpan

Perhaps I overemphasized the dirtiness - it was no worse than other 10K mile oil changes I have done. Re the 'BIO' cambelt - I'm well aware of the history; the belt looks OK - the crumbling was sorted some years ago.

Its the words in your original post that worry me

A further 140mls of black crud came out. I then left it overnight, and in the morning there was another 20mls of grot

I have not seen anything like that come out of an engine in over 40 years that has had regular oil changes.

Yes but do you leave your engines to drain overnight and canted up to get the last little bit out?

When we lived at the old house changing the oil was pretty much impossible. The slope on the drive was too great to enable the car to be jacked to level so I did this work up at dads. That made leaving it draining overnight impossible but to be honest having an open container under the car would not be a good idea over night.

But with the Caterham its a different matter and much easier. The car is much smaller so work can be done in the garage. My normal routine is to drain the oil after my last drive out in October. I have a couple of blocks I put under the tyres that ensure the drain plug is at the lowest point and since its in the garage and not used everyday I leave it until I decide to go out and finish the job, usually a couple of days.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Steveieb

John,

Thats a coincidence you living in Northampton like me!
The garage in a village on the way to Market Harborough insists on the lengthy procedure of removing the sump on every oil change on puretech engines as they find particles of the damaged belt lodged there which can block the sieve feeding the oil pump.
Maybe worth adopting their technique for piece of mind ?

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Steveieb

We had someone working at our remote site that decided to change his oil during the lunch break.

But he drained the oil into the rainwater grid which fed Into the on site sewage farm destroying the bacteria .Cost a fortune to reinstate .

So after a dressing down the next time he drove to the nearby forest drained the oil and threw it into the bushes but complete with the drain plug.

So before he could refill the engine he had to locate the drain plug in the bushes , which he eventually managed but got covered in used engine oil !

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - paul 1963

We had someone working at our remote site that decided to change his oil during the lunch break.

But he drained the oil into the rainwater grid which fed Into the on site sewage farm destroying the bacteria .Cost a fortune to reinstate .

So after a dressing down the next time he drove to the nearby forest drained the oil and threw it into the bushes but complete with the drain plug.

So before he could refill the engine he had to locate the drain plug in the bushes , which he eventually managed but got covered in used engine oil !

I can beat that, years ago a friend of mine done a oil change on his Marina, not knowing any better he filled the engine up to the top with oil started up and promptly blew the oil filter off and covered his parents drive with 2 gallons of gtx!

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Xileno

I wonder if a suction pump like PELA might be useful for sucking any last bits out. Assuming the tube goes to the bottom of the sump.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - skidpan

I wonder if a suction pump like PELA might be useful for sucking any last bits out. Assuming the tube goes to the bottom of the sump.

Have a Pela, bought it when we had the BMW to enable me to do an annual oil change easily, worked a treat providing you followed a few rules and accepted its shortcomings.

The tube is basically the outer of a bike brake cable thus its flexible and sturdy but only has a relatively small hole down the middle making sucking the oil out quite a slow process. This small hole would make sucking any crud out pretty much impossible even if it would reach to the bottom, issue there is if the tube is right on the bottom it won't suck.

But with a new(ish) engine there should be no such issues. You need to give the car a decent run (I used to do about 6 miles) to get the the oil up to temp otherwise it will not suck even with thin 0w20 BMW oil. After a decent run any suckable particles should be suspended in the oil and will come up the tube. But you cannot get 100% out of the sump, the BMW held 5 litres according the the specs (without a filter change) and the most I ever got out was just over 4 litres. Remember our drive had quite a slope and the dipstick was pretty central on the engine so the same whichever way the car pointed.

Definitely a useful tool but not perfect and pretty useless for JohnF's deposits.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Crickleymal

We had someone working at our remote site that decided to change his oil during the lunch break.

But he drained the oil into the rainwater grid which fed Into the on site sewage farm destroying the bacteria .Cost a fortune to reinstate .

So after a dressing down the next time he drove to the nearby forest drained the oil and threw it into the bushes but complete with the drain plug.

So before he could refill the engine he had to locate the drain plug in the bushes , which he eventually managed but got covered in used engine oil !

I can beat that, years ago a friend of mine done a oil change on his Marina, not knowing any better he filled the engine up to the top with oil started up and promptly blew the oil filter off and covered his parents drive with 2 gallons of gtx!

A friend had a Marina 1800. It used to leak oil so badly that he put a tray underneath when parked and poured the contents back in when setting off.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Andrew-T

... I put a clean tray underneath and left it for two hours, after putting a jack under the driver's side to tilt the car slightly to ensure maximum drainage. A further 140mls of black crud came out. I then left it overnight, and in the morning there was another 20mls of grot - better out than in. ....

I'm a couple of days late on this thread after being away, but my instant reaction after reading this was to assume that the oil should have been changed sooner. But I suppose it depends on guessing what John's crud and grot actually looked like. If the makers suggest a 20K oil change, 10K should be good enough in a petrol engine. But always remember that maker's recommendations are skewed towards the needs of fleet buyers, not 'domestic' owners.

Edited by Andrew-T on 25/04/2023 at 09:56

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Terry W

Lots of discussion about draining the last drop from the sump - but is it necessary? Assume:

  • the oil change interval is (say) 10000 miles
  • the sump takes 5 litres.
  • 10 minutes after removing the sump plug 4.5 litres (90%) has drained out
  • 0.5 litres (10% of capacity) of used oil remains
  • engine topped up with 4.5 litres

Question - is the oil in the sump similar to that which has been driven 1000 miles (10% of the service interval) or irretrievably impaired because it has 10% old oil.

Personal view - the (10%) old oil with combustion contaminants is mixed with the 90% new and it similar to all new oil which have been driven 1000 miles.

2019 Peugeot 2008 1.2puretechEAT6 130 - Progress report, oil usage - Steveieb

Imagine this taking place in the Middle East and parts of Africa where the local population depend on Japanese designed vehicles and old Peugeot Diesels which suffered none of this nonsense .