As much as I liked PSA products in the past (2.0 HDi 8v would do insane mileages) I wouldn’t touch anything they make today. Too many engine failures from poor designs. Colleague has a Pug 2008 1.2 non-turbo that’s just been scrapped at 84,000 miles due to engine failure. It was neglected however and he’s unable to explain why it failed due to his complete lack of mechanical knowledge.
Not sure I agree SLO, my company, a well known motor factors with 140 odd branch's runs a fleet of Berlingo vans ( 600 plus I think?) And they give very little trouble despite leading hard lives, my own van, 1.6hdi, currently is sitting outside with 96,800 miles on the clock, I know of others in the fleet with 200k on them. Must add they are all serviced every 10k.
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OP is talking about the 1.5.
Is it a rehash of the 1.6, or is it a newer design?
Edited by Chris M on 09/04/2023 at 12:22
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No the 1.5 is very different, the 1.6 has a belt for a start however 75% of "our" fleet are the 1.5, I should have made that clearer.
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It's a development of the 1.6. The main cam drive is still belt, but they've (mostly) gone back to a 16v head, with the second cam being driven by a chain (same as the original 16V 1.6. the chain is the weak point, but both these and the 1.6s can shred the cam belt early.
The 1.2 is a bit of a disaster area, with all the GDI problems compounded by the belt in oil problems.
Edited by RichardW on 09/04/2023 at 13:04
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Is this the same engine as the Ford 1.5 Duratech? I believe it is but with some differences, anyone know?
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It's a development of the 1.6. The main cam drive is still belt, but they've (mostly) gone back to a 16v head, with the second cam being driven by a chain (same as the original 16V 1.6. the chain is the weak point, but both these and the 1.6s can shred the cam belt early.
The 1.2 is a bit of a disaster area, with all the GDI problems compounded by the belt in oil problems.
Can anyone explain what the advantage is of a belt in oil? I thought the whole point of a belt originally was that you did away with a chain running in oil and made servicing easier, because a fibre belt didn't need lubrication and you could run it outside the engine.
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It's a development of the 1.6. The main cam drive is still belt, but they've (mostly) gone back to a 16v head, with the second cam being driven by a chain (same as the original 16V 1.6. the chain is the weak point, but both these and the 1.6s can shred the cam belt early.
The 1.2 is a bit of a disaster area, with all the GDI problems compounded by the belt in oil problems.
Can anyone explain what the advantage is of a belt in oil? I thought the whole point of a belt originally was that you did away with a chain running in oil and made servicing easier, because a fibre belt didn't need lubrication and you could run it outside the engine.
Lighter, lower friction and lower noise than a chain. Longer life than a dry belt. In theory.
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“ Not sure I agree SLO, my company, a well known motor factors with 140 odd branch's runs a fleet of Berlingo vans ( 600 plus I think?) And they give very little trouble despite leading hard lives, my own van, 1.6hdi, currently is sitting outside with 96,800 miles on the clock, I know of others in the fleet with 200k on them. Must add they are all serviced every 10k”
I’ve just heard of too many failures, mostly from the very guys to ask regarding engine longevity, the taxi trade. Many of the local taxi owners and drivers (including a neighbour of mine) were customers of mine plus it’s the first thing I ask when I get in any taxi. “How’s this standing up as a taxi” They all regard this as a soft engine. That said, there is one local fella I don’t personally know with a Focus 1.6 TDCi that looks well for its age.
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On the topic of the widely used 1.2 puretech engine
Am I correct this engine is now on its 6th revision?
It’s taken them 6 attempts to sort out the issues?
That is poor.
So far we had
Version 1
Version 1 update
Version 1 further update
Version 2
Version 2 update
Version 3 - now a chain, no longer a belt
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Just remember all these updates has caused some poor sole a lot of trouble, because manufacturers don’t say we got it wrong here is a refund for running the vehicles and finding the issues
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Taxi operator here
So I have a 2021 Vauxhall Vivaro Life 1.5 turbo D 120p edition. First engine went at 55, 345 due to head of one the valves split causing engine failure - covered under warranty
Second engine went 65,000 due to turbo failures! Cost £10,288 for a new engine - not covered under warranty
Third engine went after 25,000miles due to the Big head shell collapsed causing fragments to spread through engine causing engine failure - covered under warranty, currently in the garage
I service it ever 12,500miles as with all other vehicles through Vauxhall dealership? When I bought this vehicle in Dec 2021 they we aware it was bought as a taxi meaning body work warranty is automatically removed, they asked for mileage I would be using every year again honest. I am in discussion with Vauxhall Uk who states but your car near let 2 years old and you have a lot of mileage yes with 4 engines!!! I’ve a couple of colleagues who had taken longer to cover 60,000 and engines blown out of warranty
I have a citreon 2018 spacetourer 220,000 miles still the same engine!
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I think you are pushing your luck waiting 12,500 miles between oil changes in a modern diesel engine. I don't drive a taxi, but that probably means your engine is fully warm more of the time, but even so. 8 to 10K changes make better sense and might cost less overall if your engine lasts longer.
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The 12,500 was suggested by Vauxhall Uk and local dealership
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The 12,500 was suggested by Vauxhall Uk and local dealership
That is the figure (=20K km) in the handbook for my 2008 Pug, which has the 1.6 HDi engine. I have owned it since it ended its 6-month, 13K first spell as a rental car. I have always changed oil and filter at no more than 8K miles. It hasn't done any starship mileage, but neither has it given any trouble at all.
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I thought they had now introduced a fix to the 1.5 diesel engine?
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Thanks Pcoup for that. I always say the best people to ask regarding the long term reliability of any car are taxi drivers/owners - I always ask when I get in one how it’s coping with being a taxi. They truly test cars to destruction and if there are any common weaknesses they’ll find them. I don’t trust this engine or PSA’s 1.2 petrol triple either. There are too many examples of failures like this, though I’d say you were extremely unlucky. Can’t even question if the right oil has been used as it’s the main dealer who’s been servicing it.
If I were putting a taxi on the road it would be either a Toyota hybrid, a Honda Civic 1.6 DTEC or if it had to be an MPV/Hackney I’d go for a Merc with the old 2.1 diesel. We have a load of Merc Sprinter based minibuses for dial a bus service, 18/19 plates and between 200-350k up and the engines and gearboxes are coping well. Usual adblue diesel related emissions and management lights appear occasionally but they rarely let us down and all are on their original running gear. Front suspension is a bit fragile though.
Edited by SLO76 on 18/10/2023 at 10:20
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My Indie runs a small fleet on mini-buses as well as car repairs/MoTs etc. Council contracts for kids in wheelchairs + the odd hires at weekends.
The owner is a diesel expert - he explained that the diesel engine in a car/van is a different model than the minibus - much greater emphasis on lubrication with additional associated pipework.
Stop/start /short runs plays havoc with engines and without the additional kit the engines would be lucky to last so long.
His fleet (<10) is made up of buses bought at 3/4 year old and he runs/maintains them in-house - maybe another 5/6 years use. He also maintains minibuses for other operators.
Some of the newer ones are plagued by needing main dealer / bus builder tech support a problem when the bus is needed for the afternoon school run or first thing in the morning.
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We feel we made a massive mistake, but as the government pushes for lower emissions I feel the engines are getting small but not coping. It’s the long story of if your a taxi owner then you must be sitting with engine idle…against the law, your hard on your vehicles, my vehicles do a lot of business contract airport runs, my tool of my trade is my taxis and I look after them hence I go to a Vauxhall dealership to do my servicing etc. if my cars aren’t looked after then it doesn’t work.
We are the best to test cars, not because we are harsh on them but because we use them, every mileage used is money earned. Sat part is when your car goes off the road you loose income but still paying all your overheads.
We use to have the 8 seater Peugeot they were great after they fixed a few years of bugs in the engines. But then they made these large cars smaller and the taxi trade moved away. Would love to get a Mercedes but unfortunate given my Vauxhall been off the road so many times it’s had an impact. I just wish someone would say at Vauxhall something not right! Mercedes or high end car’s manufacturers would test their cars buy Vauxhall nope. Worse car ever I do think the bigger engine version might do on but I’ve lost faith in this brand…as I said my spacetourer has 220,000 great car same service intervals etc but Vauxhall isn’t standing up to bring a taxi.
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Your spacetourer will have the 2.0 diesel, a much better engine so far than the 1.5 diesel
Taxi firm in Bristol uses lots of 1.6 diesel Berlingo and Partner MPVs and they do big mileages.
Common issues with gearbox and injectors, but garages know the tell tale signs and how to fix them
Taxi trade I have spoke with have always sworn by the Toyota Prius and later the Kia Niro, before that it was Skoda Octavias and a few had later Seat Toledos/Skoda Rapid.
Where I previously lived it was the Dacia Logan MCV 1.5 diesel for a period because they were cheap for an estate but they seem to have gone and been replaced with Kia Niros and Hyundai Ioniqs
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I guess this is actually a PSA engine and therefore used in the Peugeot and Citroen versions.
And that bastion of engineering integrity, Toyota?
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And Vauxhall/Opel and now Fiat
Fiat Doblo rebadged Citroen Berlingo vans now made in the Ellesmere Port plant in the UK
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Fiat Fiat Doblo rebadged Citroen Berlingo vans now made in the Ellesmere Port plant in the UK
Should that be assembled, not made. Like the Renault vans witha Vauxhall badge at Luton?
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It's nice to have a taxi operator on the forum, welcome (or if you have been here before me, welcome back).
If I were you I would do an interim oil (only) change between each main dealer service.
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We do that, as I say ok I have spacetourer citreon 220,000miles no issues
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