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The bit I'd like to know about is what "the particular way" the police drive the cars which supposedly means there is absolutely no risk to the public in driving the same car.
Clearly the cars are going to be pushed very hard on emergency calls, but the police are still using them within what the engine management system allows. We've obviously got a 70mph speed limit here, but in theory they could be legally (and are by some people) driven completely flat out for extended periods on a German autobahn. Also, driven enthusiastically but still legally fully loaded up an extended steep/winding mountain pass wouldn't be that much different to a police car being driven hard - if anything a trained police driver is likely to be mechanically more sympathetic than the average driver whose only training was in a 1.0 Vauxhall Corsa when they were 17.
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The bit I'd like to know about is what "the particular way" the police drive the cars which supposedly means there is absolutely no risk to the public in driving the same car.
Clearly the cars are going to be pushed very hard on emergency calls, but the police are still using them within what the engine management system allows. We've obviously got a 70mph speed limit here, but in theory they could be legally (and are by some people) driven completely flat out for extended periods on a German autobahn. Also, driven enthusiastically but still legally fully loaded up an extended steep/winding mountain pass wouldn't be that much different to a police car being driven hard - if anything a trained police driver is likely to be mechanically more sympathetic than the average driver whose only training was in a 1.0 Vauxhall Corsa when they were 17.
My assumption is that the problem occurs during a sudden stop after full throttle running, eg police pursuit followed by a vehicle stop - or rapid response to an incident.
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The bit I'd like to know about is what "the particular way" the police drive the cars which supposedly means there is absolutely no risk to the public in driving the same car.
Clearly the cars are going to be pushed very hard on emergency calls, but the police are still using them within what the engine management system allows. We've obviously got a 70mph speed limit here, but in theory they could be legally (and are by some people) driven completely flat out for extended periods on a German autobahn. Also, driven enthusiastically but still legally fully loaded up an extended steep/winding mountain pass wouldn't be that much different to a police car being driven hard - if anything a trained police driver is likely to be mechanically more sympathetic than the average driver whose only training was in a 1.0 Vauxhall Corsa when they were 17.
My assumption is that the problem occurs during a sudden stop after full throttle running, eg police pursuit followed by a vehicle stop - or rapid response to an incident.
There was a similar article in today's Telegraph, and someone (it may have been in the reader comments below the article) said that the problem may have been due to the vehicles been left to idle for hours at the scene of (unrelated to the engine failure) incidents in order to keep the battery going with the headlights illuminating the scene, resulting in 'extra strain' on the engines which subsquently failed.
Given this practice by Plod has occured for decades, you have to wonder at the resiliance of BMW engines (or certain types) - I thought that they were supposed to be technal marvels of engineering quality, not fragile.
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There was a similar article in today's Telegraph, and someone (it may have been in the reader comments below the article) said that the problem may have been due to the vehicles been left to idle for hours at the scene of (unrelated to the engine failure) incidents in order to keep the battery going with the headlights illuminating the scene, resulting in 'extra strain' on the engines which subsquently failed.
Given this practice by Plod has occured for decades, you have to wonder at the resiliance of BMW engines (or certain types) - I thought that they were supposed to be technal marvels of engineering quality, not fragile.
Iirc police spec./build cars had/have uprated electrical systems to deal with the extra kit fitted & it's usage?
The BMW N47 series diesels were known for having timing chain "issues", often catastrophic.
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My understanding is that after a prolonged period of idling then sudden flat out running is where the issues can occur, why this should be the case i don't know.
As many of us have thought for some time, some of these engines are relatively small to be giving the power and perfomance figures they are, maybe there's a case for balancing power output to within safe limits for a given engine design.
My gut feeling though is lack of suitable servicing including intensive cleaning of the emissions equipment given the extreme use these vehicles are put through.
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My understanding is that after a prolonged period of idling then sudden flat out running is where the issues can occur, why this should be the case i don't know.
As many of us have thought for some time, some of these engines are relatively small to be giving the power and perfomance figures they are, maybe there's a case for balancing power output to within safe limits for a given engine design.
My gut feeling though is lack of suitable servicing including intensive cleaning of the emissions equipment given the extreme use these vehicles are put through.
My friend's daughter worked as a mechanic and MOT tester at his garage for some years, then left and joined the Police. Shown the current patrol cars at the Police garage she pointed out MOT defects on most of them.
At a country fair in the Pennine foothills a few years ago the Traffic cop showing off the Volvo T5 estate he used said it's main drawback was running out of brakes when used at speed in that hilly area
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My friend's daughter worked as a mechanic and MOT tester at his garage for some years, then left and joined the Police. Shown the current patrol cars at the Police garage she pointed out MOT defects on most of them.
At a country fair in the Pennine foothills a few years ago the Traffic cop showing off the Volvo T5 estate he used said it's main drawback was running out of brakes when used at speed in that hilly area
Brakes also a failing on my ex driving school Rover 827, from the service history that car never went more than 10k miles before needing discs and pads, which continued in my ownership, even one hard stop from a 3 figure speed was enough to warp the undersized front discs....in the USA they have the option of proper police specification patrol cars, often featuring uprated wheels suspension braking and cooling systems...and typically a large capacity unstressed engine rumbling away happily under the bonnet.
If glaring MOT failures were staring that fine young woman in the face, one wonders if daily checks such as oils coolants etc were being performed, driven hard most engines will burn some oil.
Edited by gordonbennet on 16/01/2023 at 16:31
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Brakes also a failing on my ex driving school Rover 827, from the service history that car never went more than 10k miles before needing discs and pads, which continued in my ownership, even one hard stop from a 3 figure speed was enough to warp the undersized front discs....
Seems like Rover never learnt their lesson with the preceding SD1 then. I experienced scary brake fade with my V8 auto twice during ownership. Plenty of meat left on the pads, they were just too small. I can't remember but they may have even been solid non vented items. You could get a conversion using Jag discs which sorted it, but it should have been properly engineered in the first place, alas we all know about the woes of Rover at the time.
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even one hard stop from a 3 figure speed was enough to warp the undersized front discs....
I had a total brake fade incident with a land crab, coming down a Welsh hillside. Nothing to do with Austin, but I believe it was due to the (recently fitted, but bedded in) Moprod brand pads from Halfords. I replaced them with main dealer supplied pads and never had further problems.
The Ambassador I had was a different kettle of fish. Had to replace the discs annually due to (what I thought) was disc warping. I now believe it may have been a phenomenon caused by 'hot spots' on the discs. Due to the discs getting very hot in one place, usually caused by holding the footbrake down after a hard stop.
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My understanding is that after a prolonged period of idling then sudden flat out running is where the issues can occur, why this should be the case i don't know.
As many of us have thought for some time, some of these engines are relatively small to be giving the power and perfomance figures they are, maybe there's a case for balancing power output to within safe limits for a given engine design.
My gut feeling though is lack of suitable servicing including intensive cleaning of the emissions equipment given the extreme use these vehicles are put through.
My friend's daughter worked as a mechanic and MOT tester at his garage for some years, then left and joined the Police. Shown the current patrol cars at the Police garage she pointed out MOT defects on most of them.
At a country fair in the Pennine foothills a few years ago the Traffic cop showing off the Volvo T5 estate he used said it's main drawback was running out of brakes when used at speed in that hilly area
I wonder if those proper 4x4 Subarus (or Toyota proper off-roaders as required) would've been the choice in hindsight for the countryside patrol cars.
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Deputy chief constable Terry Woods, the National Police Chiefs’ Council lead on police driving, said: “A national position has already been adopted regarding the end of life of the affected BMWs.
“Vehicles that have been assessed as at risk and unsuitable for police use have been removed from service and their engine made unusable prior to disposal.
“Any remaining usable BMWs with the engine type identified are subject to rigorous monitoring.”
www.edp24.co.uk/news/23253281.norfolk-bmw-stop-sup.../
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I saw on another forum that these ex-Police cars are having their engines disabled before going to auction. Seems a waste to me, I suppose it's the litigious age we are in. One way of making sure there's no claim from the next owner.
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Why would anyone buy a car with a disabled engine?
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If they get the car cheap enough then it's worth dropping another engine in.
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I saw on another forum that these ex-Police cars are having their engines disabled before going to auction. Seems a waste to me, I suppose it's the litigious age we are in. One way of making sure there's no claim from the next owner.
What do you mean by 'dsiabled' - are they 'chipped' to get extra performance, and then reset to factory settings when sold? That's rather like buying a second-hand PC from someone who seriously overclocked the processor and graphics card, which normally will shorten those components' life.
At least with a 'modded' car, you can tell that it could well have been 'chipped' or otherwise 'souped up' because the bodwork normally has been significanlty altered as well. Unless the holes in the roof for the woo-woos and the fixings for the police radio are still in place, is there any other way to determine (other than being suspcious of white-coloured cars!) it's an ex-Rozzermobile if it's in a general auction etc?
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Disabled as in having the block holed to stop the engine being used again.
Listing of some on this site: www.brightwells.com/timed-sale/5341#lotid-587401
There doesn't seem to be any secrecy, the cars are honestly advertised as what the score is.
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I saw on another forum that these ex-Police cars are having their engines disabled before going to auction. Seems a waste to me, I suppose it's the litigious age we are in. One way of making sure there's no claim from the next owner.
Seems that one Police Officer died after one of these cars burst into flames and there have been other 'near misses'.
If the selling forces know there's a risk related to the way these cars were used and they've quantified it as serious and ongoing then they're not going to take the chance of comeback.
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I wouldn't imagine there's much life left in the average police car by the time they move them on these days. The cars with the disabled engine will most likely get stripped for parts and all these sold on separately.
Back in the day when the police did routine motorway patrols, most of the motorway cars had an easy life until reaching the disposal mileage. Most of the miles would be done cruising up and down all day at 60, with the occasional burst of speed to annoy a speeding sales rep or get to the site of an accident a bit quicker. Since the highways agency started doing those patrols, the relative amount of blue light miles on an old police car will be much higher.
I suspect though that the ex highways agency Toyota Land Cruisers are probably quite a good buy these days for the same reason some police cars used to be. 150000 miles at a constant 60mph and it will be barely run in!
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If the problem was caused by a snapped cam chain, there seems to be a common thread here with German cars fitted with cam chains.
VAG cars have suffered snapped chains including the V6 in the S4 and earlier petrol VWs . It seems to make sense to ensure this low value item is fit for purpose out of warranty . S4 and Amarok owners are warned to listen for chain rattle on start up and get it changed before it destroys the whole engine
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I think it was the DPF. Car idling for a long time at a traffic scene, then a shout coming in and then booting it hard.
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Interesting point! Maybe they are all using the same OEM supplier?
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