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"""I suspect that's why the (car / EV charger) manufacturers always state the 20-80% charge time, because getting that last 20% takes ages.’""
I also "suspect" that they give the range with a 100% battery so when you drive off at 80 you are kidding yourself!
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No suspicion or conspiracy theories here - of course the range is from a 100% battery.
If you only had 3/4 of a tank of petrol or diesel would your car go as far as it would if it were full to the brim?
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No suspicion or conspiracy theories here - of course the range is from a 100% battery. If you only had 3/4 of a tank of petrol or diesel would your car go as far as it would if it were full to the brim?
To be fair, the fuel tank capacity of ICE cars has always been on the conservative side, presumably allowing up to the fuel nozzle 'click' mark, not if fuel was dispensed right to the top of the filling pipe. I wonder if some of the odd-shaped parts of the tank that never can fully empty also get excluded.
On a good few occasions over the lifetime of the car (now 17yo) I've filled my car's nominal 55L tank with between 51L and 53L of fuel, meaning I can just squeak 95% of the range out of the car, which has not diminished either. I wish I could say the same for myself! :-)
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No suspicion or conspiracy theories here - of course the range is from a 100% battery. If you only had 3/4 of a tank of petrol or diesel would your car go as far as it would if it were full to the brim?
Yes but at the point of fuelling in my ICE I can fill it up and pay in 5 minutes to give maximum range but to get that extra 20% range on your EV you seem to have to hang around for quite a bit longer even on a rapid charger. So even with the 100% range quoted there is a time penalty to achieve its potential which is probably causing a lot of the queuing otherwise drivers are always sacrificing 20%
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No suspicion or conspiracy theories here - of course the range is from a 100% battery. If you only had 3/4 of a tank of petrol or diesel would your car go as far as it would if it were full to the brim?
Yes but at the point of fuelling in my ICE I can fill it up and pay in 5 minutes to give maximum range but to get that extra 20% range on your EV you seem to have to hang around for quite a bit longer even on a rapid charger. So even with the 100% range quoted there is a time penalty to achieve its potential which is probably causing a lot of the queuing otherwise drivers are always sacrificing 20%
Not if they are trickle charging on cheap rate electricity over night whilst they are sound asleep.
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And not forgetting the whole purpose behind the move towards electrification which is to lower all sorts of noxious emissions that affect both individuals and the planet.
No, it’s (currently) not a perfect solution but it’ll progress, unlike internal combustion which has hit the buffers at the end of the line.
Out.
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And not forgetting the whole purpose behind the move towards electrification which is to lower all sorts of noxious emissions that affect both individuals and the planet. No, it’s (currently) not a perfect solution but it’ll progress, unlike internal combustion which has hit the buffers at the end of the line. Out.
Internal combustion has not hit the buffers, it has plenty of life yet as Toyota and Hyundai/others are proving, using Hydrogen instead of Petrol or Diesel, we will see a mixture of cars on the road powered from either Battery electric, HFC or H-ice and as artics will be powered by hydrogen as well no reason cars cannot either
some companies are saying artics are too heavy anyway for battery electrics so hydrogen to replace diesel seems the most obvious choice
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I also "suspect" that they give the range with a 100% battery so when you drive off at 80 you are kidding yourself!
What type of person and how many of them do you suspect are kidding themselves that an 80% charge will give 100% range?
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What type of person and how many of them do you suspect are kidding themselves that an 80% charge will give 100% range?
At the other end of the scale, does the battery output tail off as it nears 10%-left, in a similar way to the top of the charging process ?
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"""What type of person and how many of them do you suspect are kidding themselves that an 80% charge will give 100% range?"""
What I am saying is that an EV will never charge 100% on a rapid charge so you are buying an EV kidding your self that its manufacturer range is achievable.
"""At the other end of the scale, does the battery output tail off as it nears 10%-left, in a similar way to the top of the charging process ?"""
much the same as ICE how much do you trust what is left in the tank, but with your EV you have more variables such as temperature, .aircon and your right foot. All manageable I am sure but I suggest perhaps a bit more stressful.
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What I am saying is that an EV will never charge 100% on a rapid charge so you are buying an EV kidding your self that its manufacturer range is achievable.
Plenty of ICE cars were sold on range; diesel Audis stick in my mind. Frankly you're kidding yourself if you think you can achieve the advertised number in the real world. However the car has a fuel gauge to tell you what's left in the tank and a computer will translate that into range.
EV also has an active display showing range and whether you're reducing it (cruising/accelerating) or increasing it by regenerative braking.
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All manageable I am sure but I suggest perhaps a bit more stressful.
No need to get stressed about it, thats what the controller is for to give the correct charge rate for the battery, in time all batteries will be able to charge fully without worrying about how full you can get it on the one charge your giving it. ie 80% charge then takes time to reach 100% won`t exit in time
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At the other end of the scale, does the battery output tail off as it nears 10%-left, in a similar way to the top of the charging process ?
Possible, but I doubt too many people would let the charge get down to 10% or less to find out!. Maybe a smaller basic EV used as a 2nd car, and only on short journeys?.
I remember watching a video by Robert Llewellyn on his 1st gen Leaf before he upgraded the battery. Seem to remember him saying that he wouldn't chance using it for a journey of more than about 30 miles. But he did also say that his charging regime, that is charging it after every run, no matter how short, really isn't good for the type of battery used in the early Leaf. And that this definitely contributed to the range degradation.
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What I am saying is that an EV will never charge 100% on a rapid charge
A rapid charger is most certainly capable of charging your battery to 100%. It is just going to take longer, and hugely inconvenience anyone waiting to use the charger (as it should be). But rapid chargers are not there to get your battery up to 100% (anyone able to grasp how a battery charges should be able to understand this), they are there to get enough charge into your battery to get you on your way in as short a time as possible.
so you are buying an EV kidding your self that its manufacturer range is achievable.
So why would someone charging their battery to 100% at home not be able to get the full range?
I'm also still a bit confused as to who these people who are kidding themselves are?.
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I'm also still a bit confused as to who these people who are kidding themselves are?.
I might be wrong but read that as similar to a person putting in £5 of petrol in an empty tank and expecting 200 miles out of it, similarly some may expect 80% charge to give them full battery range
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If you buy a EV with a maximum range of 300miles commute and have to use the rapid charger network and do not want to have to wait all day you have a car with a maximum 240miles range. A pretty big shortfall is all I am getting at and I do not think that some potential consumers fully appreciate what they are buying
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I do not think that some potential consumers fully appreciate what they are buying
Same as most thinsg people buy.
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If you buy a EV with a maximum range of 300miles commute and have to use the rapid charger network and do not want to have to wait all day you have a car with a maximum 240miles range. A pretty big shortfall is all I am getting at and I do not think that some potential consumers fully appreciate what they are buying
I doubt some are interested and only concerned they are cleaning the air all by themselves, the fact some cars don`t meet expectations is second and a moaning point they hadn`t considered...
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We lose sight of the fact there are two very different issues with only limited overlap.
Most journeys are short - the average car covers ~180 miles a week. Most EV owners need to charge once or twice per week. The need is to ensure access to a charging network.
Houses with off road parking are not a problem. Other charging points could include work, hotels, retail parks, car parks, etc etc. Apartment blocks could install their own charging points for residents.
Range - relatively few routinely drive more than 200 miles a day. Some (like me) may do so up to ~10 times a year. For most car owners it is a non-issue providing recharging facilities are available (see above).
As fast chargers increase, range anxiety should become less of an issue.
Those who insist on being able to recharge with 500 miles of diesel range in 5 mins should note that tiredness is the cause of ~20% of main road accidents. For good reasons HGV drivers are limited to 4.5 hours - ~ 200miles between breaks.
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We lose sight of the fact there are two very different issues with only limited overlap.
Most journeys are short - the average car covers ~180 miles a week. Most EV owners need to charge once or twice per week. The need is to ensure access to a charging network.
Houses with off road parking are not a problem. Other charging points could include work, hotels, retail parks, car parks, etc etc. Apartment blocks could install their own charging points for residents.
Range - relatively few routinely drive more than 200 miles a day. Some (like me) may do so up to ~10 times a year. For most car owners it is a non-issue providing recharging facilities are available (see above).
As fast chargers increase, range anxiety should become less of an issue.
Those who insist on being able to recharge with 500 miles of diesel range in 5 mins should note that tiredness is the cause of ~20% of main road accidents. For good reasons HGV drivers are limited to 4.5 hours - ~ 200miles between breaks.
It's time EV advocates stopped promoting the idea of averages - cars need to cope with whatever extremes of use is normal for the owner.
For clarity, HGV drivers are required to take a 45 minute break after 4.5 hours driving - that's actually a good yardstick for the recharging process of EVs - so car drivers should be capable of adding 315 miles (4.5 hours at 70 mph) range in 45 minutes - we clearly can't do that yet.
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If you buy a EV with a maximum range of 300miles commute and have to use the rapid charger network and do not want to have to wait all day you have a car with a maximum 240miles range. A pretty big shortfall is all I am getting at and I do not think that some potential consumers fully appreciate what they are buying
First, how many people (whatever the propulsion source of their car) out there do you suppose have a 300 mile commute?
Second, your hypothetical 300 mile EV commuter starting the day with a 240 mile range would indeed have to stop for a quick squirt of charge. Two 10 minute stops on a 50kWh charger would be more than enough to get them home. Not exactly a massive inconvenience on a 300 mile commute is it?. Personally, I'd be more than happy for the opportunity to relieve my bladder and have a quick cuppa!.
But the part of your argument I am struggling most is that you seem to think that every time anyone gets in their car, they are going to be travelling as far as is possible on one 'tank' (of petrol, diesel or electricity). Why is this when the average UK daily commute is less than 10 miles?.
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For clarity, HGV drivers are required to take a 45 minute break after 4.5 hours driving - that's actually a good yardstick for the recharging process of EVs - so car drivers should be capable of adding 315 miles (4.5 hours at 70 mph) range in 45 minutes - we clearly can't do that yet.
Why is it a good yardstick for EV charging?. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. And why should a charger be able to add 315 miles of range in 45 minutes?
A couple of other points. The 45 minute break after 4.5 hours is under EU regs. Under domestic regs it is a 30 minute break after 5.5 hours.
Also, a 150kW charger will put 275 miles of range into a Hyundai Ioniq 5 in 20 minutes.
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If you buy a EV with a maximum range of 300miles commute and have to use the rapid charger network and do not want to have to wait all day you have a car with a maximum 240miles range. A pretty big shortfall is all I am getting at and I do not think that some potential consumers fully appreciate what they are buying
First, how many people (whatever the propulsion source of their car) out there do you suppose have a 300 mile commute?
Second, your hypothetical 300 mile EV commuter starting the day with a 240 mile range would indeed have to stop for a quick squirt of charge. Two 10 minute stops on a 50kWh charger would be more than enough to get them home. Not exactly a massive inconvenience on a 300 mile commute is it?. Personally, I'd be more than happy for the opportunity to relieve my bladder and have a quick cuppa!.
But the part of your argument I am struggling most is that you seem to think that every time anyone gets in their car, they are going to be travelling as far as is possible on one 'tank' (of petrol, diesel or electricity). Why is this when the average UK daily commute is less than 10 miles?.
All of what you quote above caused the charger chaos in the first place and is an on going problem for many on long commutes which is what this thread is about. You just cannot guarantee the availability of a charger. More EV range and more chargers is what is needed to normalise peoples long distance motoring
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If you buy a EV with a maximum range of 300miles commute and have to use the rapid charger network and do not want to have to wait all day you have a car with a maximum 240miles range. A pretty big shortfall is all I am getting at and I do not think that some potential consumers fully appreciate what they are buying
First, how many people (whatever the propulsion source of their car) out there do you suppose have a 300 mile commute?
Second, your hypothetical 300 mile EV commuter starting the day with a 240 mile range would indeed have to stop for a quick squirt of charge. Two 10 minute stops on a 50kWh charger would be more than enough to get them home. Not exactly a massive inconvenience on a 300 mile commute is it?. Personally, I'd be more than happy for the opportunity to relieve my bladder and have a quick cuppa!.
But the part of your argument I am struggling most is that you seem to think that every time anyone gets in their car, they are going to be travelling as far as is possible on one 'tank' (of petrol, diesel or electricity). Why is this when the average UK daily commute is less than 10 miles?.
All of what you quote above caused the charger chaos in the first place and is an on going problem for many on long commutes which is what this thread is about. You just cannot guarantee the availability of a charger. More EV range and more chargers is what is needed to normalise peoples long distance motoring
There are no guarantees of anything including availability of petrol or diesel as we've all found out over the last few years,
Incidentally anyone who has a 300 miles commute needs a new life and a new job more than they need a new car!
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All of what you quote above caused the charger chaos in the first place and is an on going problem for many on long commutes which is what this thread is about. You just cannot guarantee the availability of a charger. More EV range and more chargers is what is needed to normalise peoples long distance motoring
"All of what you quote above"?. I only quoted one thing above, that someone on a 300 mile commute with an available 240 mile range only need stop twice for 10 minutes each time (assuming a 50kW charger) to make up the shortfall in range. Explain how that would have caused the chaos?
You are the one demanding that everyone be able to put 100% charge in their car at a public charger whenever and wherever they want. This attitude and mentality is most likely to cause chaos, not those who put in only what they need (unless nobody else is waiting) and carry on.
Here is a little reminder for those with a blinkered view (or memory loss) to the possibility of any fuel supply issues for ICE vehicles.
_120789008_071012126-1.jpg
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Here is a little reminder for those with a blinkered view (or memory loss) to the possibility of any fuel supply issues for ICE vehicles.
_120789008_071012126-1.jpg
Wish we had those prices now on the fuel :-)
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More EV range and more chargers is what is needed to normalise peoples long distance motoring
Don't think anyone would disagree about that.
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The problem of the lack of chargers was not a normal daily event though. It was due to the Christmas travel surge combined with the train strikes,so more people were driving longer distances. Sort the trains out and the problem goes away.
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Houses with off road parking are not a problem. Other charging points could include work, hotels, retail parks, car parks, etc etc. Apartment blocks could install their own charging points for residents.
All sounds dandy, but as before, the realities of the sitution make this far more problematic:
Most workplaces do not have sufficient parking for all their staff - I'd say between 25-50% at best. They were never designed for this.
Retail parks and other car parks aren't exactly known for their safety / security and are normally a long way from where the car owner will be during the time the EV is charging. Most employers won't let you just swan off to move your car closer to the office (and that's assuming there's any parking spaces nearer to actually use) an hour or three after getting to work or toodling off after lunch to get it charged up for when you go home later.
Most smaller employers or apartment block RAs cannot afford to pay for charging stations up-front (many private RAs not allowed to take out loans either) and thus current residents may end up payment large sums that won't benefit them (as they may move) or have the space (as mine likely doesn't) to install them.
Then there's the question of who gets use of them - my housing development (houses and flats on private [non-adopted] roads) have allocated spaces for each flat plus unallocated visitor spaces. I can easily forsee people stealing others or visitor spaces (which is already against the T&Cs).
I still say that dedicated, large scale equivalent to fuel filling stations are needed to achieve parity with ICE, which a) won't come cheap (why should us non EV owner subsidise them, especially as the vast majority of EV owners are hardly 'poor') and b) would either require out-of-town space (not useful for then going to work) or many existing buildings to be knocked down in prime areas in town/cities which would be very expensive.
This is why I think (aside from all the general logistical and technological problems we've discussed at length on many occasions) the changeover process should be over a far longer period.
Contrary to 'settled' belief (which appears to be slowly changing as scientists regain their courage or at least see which way the proverbial winds are blowing on a range of issues), the world isn't going to end in some irrecoverable catastorphy in 10 years, not even in a hundred.
If only we would put this much effort into living more healthily in other ways (diet, exercise, interractions with other people, etc) and ridding our econsystem of microplastics, industrial and medical residues and the over-prescribing of medicines, we might do some real good.
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I suspect we could go round and round in circles with these issues, each side with their entrenched views.
I think some International perspective would be useful. We have members in other countries so maybe they could give some view on how they are dealing with the challenges of switching to EV?
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I think some International perspective would be useful. We have members in other countries so maybe they could give some view on how they are dealing with the challenges of switching to EV?
I am in Australia but have no personal experience of EVs. Too expensive to buy and I already have two perfectly serviceable cars. I do see quite a few Teslas around and the odd other EV. Chargers are around although not in great numbers and those that there are seldom seem to have vehicles plugged into them. Most people here have their own carport or driveway so they could do home charging and 40% of houses have PV cells on the roof which has now led to 9am to 3pm being off peak and cheap electricity. State governments are intending to tax EVs on kilometrage but are now involved in a court case with the Federal govt which says it has the right to tax them.
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If it helps at all; as of now, all new housing developments have to provide 1:1 EV chargers per home. I don't know about commercial buildings, but there will no doubt be something about that in the building regs too.
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If it helps at all; as of now, all new housing developments have to provide 1:1 EV chargers per home. I don't know about commercial buildings, but there will no doubt be something about that in the building regs too.
Unfortunately, around my area, house builders are simply putting in the cheapest option- a 3kWh chargepoint.
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A generalisation - current owners of EVs are likely to be reasonably prosperous folk often living in larger properties, or better than average apartment blocks.
No surprise - there are few EVs s/h which the less prosperous could afford. Roll forward (say) 10 years and there will be more EVs on the road with a well developed s/h market.
I expect charging will continue to grow in retail parks, work, car parks, hotels etc. Reasonably fast chargers would comfortably recharge an EV in the time it takes to do the weekly shop, or watch a film, or have a meal out etc
Even if the market moves towards home charging, ICE vehicles will still be available new until 2030, and probably on the roads until ~2045 - 22 years from now.
However rational the concerns of those who may be negatively affected (there are some solutions, albeit at a cost), I doubt it will make any difference to events over the next decade.
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I read this morning the new car sales are still poor with only electric cars showing any real growth.
I have never driven an electric car but I have read it is a pleasant experience next to ICE cars.
To me the price of ICE cars is being inflated to encourage the purchase of electric.
The main reason for the growth in electric is tax.
Road tax, company car tax and fuel tax.
If all were taxed equally (inc fuel) no one would buy electric. It would simply be out of everyone’s reach.
The government will soon be grossly out of pocket and look at recouping lost revenue and we’ll be back where we are now.
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""""To me the price of ICE cars is being inflated to encourage the purchase of electric."""
I to have notice this. ICE cars have increased by very large percentages much more than inflation. The """ problem"" first started at the beginning of covid but I now think that manufacturers are taking advantage. You can now pay over £30 for small cars like a MINI or A1 There is still a shortage of some new ICE vehicles but there are some discounts available Second hand prices too are ridiculous. 3 year old cars with 3 year old mileage are going for their price new. My advice is unless you need a car or indeed change your current car is to wait until the market sorts itself out.
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""""To me the price of ICE cars is being inflated to encourage the purchase of electric."""
I to have notice this. ICE cars have increased by very large percentages much more than inflation. The """ problem"" first started at the beginning of covid but I now think that manufacturers are taking advantage. You can now pay over £30 for small cars like a MINI or A1 There is still a shortage of some new ICE vehicles but there are some discounts available Second hand prices too are ridiculous. 3 year old cars with 3 year old mileage are going for their price new. My advice is unless you need a car or indeed change your current car is to wait until the market sorts itself out.
It's just the law of Supply & Demand at work - first Covid shutdowns and then the global chip shortage means that both new and used cars are in short supply, which pushes the prices up.
While I don't disagree with your advice to keep your current car, the more of who do that will just extend this problem.
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I expect charging will continue to grow in retail parks, work, car parks, hotels etc. Reasonably fast chargers would comfortably recharge an EV in the time it takes to do the weekly shop, or watch a film, or have a meal out etc..
Your point just reinforces the contrast between fuelling a vehicle in 5 minutes and 'refilling' its battery. Even with 5-minute filling, queues at filling stations are not uncommon (partly because so many have closed i suppose). To begin with, many owners of EVs will be able to charge at home, but I can't help feeling that this basic difference will force users to rethink their habits.
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Sammy's original post, which has been described as "negative", has generated a phenomenal number of replies in a really interesting topic. In the last year, only one topic, by SLO76, seems to have got anywhere near to it in terms of replies.
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Sammy's original post, which has been described as "negative", has generated a phenomenal number of replies in a really interesting topic. In the last year, only one topic, by SLO76, seems to have got anywhere near to it in terms of replies.
Probably because of the following...
1. Over forty of the replies have been from just four posters
2. Despite Xileno's entreaties, it has drifted wildly in several directions from the original topic.
3. I suspect many of the recorded views are from the same people revisiting the thread to continue the discussion.
No-one responded my two-pennorth ...are Tesla owners more likely to be in 'free' charger queues because they rarely charge at home?
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‘ No-one responded my two-pennorth ...are Tesla owners more likely to be in 'free' charger queues because they rarely charge at home?’
I’ve no figures on the percentage or Tesla drivers who charge at home, but across the whole EV market home charging accounts for 80% of all charging.
Tesla’s inbuilt satnav will take them, by default, to a Tesla Supercharger, so I suspect that a proportion of Tesla drivers don’t really consider going elsewhere. Plus, they are a well maintained and frequently fully operational network, that makes them attractive to those that can use them.
The ‘free for life’ charging offer finished a while ago, but there are still cars/owners out there with access to it. In addition Tesla will give, for instance, six months free charging for referring a new customer. But I’d expect most Tesla customers are now paying to use Tesla Superchargers.
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Tesla’s inbuilt satnav will take them, by default, to a Tesla Supercharger, so I suspect that a proportion of Tesla drivers don’t really consider going elsewhere.
Does this clever satnav only choose places with a free charge-point, and if so, can it tell whether the point will still be free when the Tesla gets to it ?
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Tesla’s inbuilt satnav will take them, by default, to a Tesla Supercharger, so I suspect that a proportion of Tesla drivers don’t really consider going elsewhere.
Does this clever satnav only choose places with a free charge-point, and if so, can it tell whether the point will still be free when the Tesla gets to it ?
Sort of. I tells you how many chargepoints are free and updates as you get closer.
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The ‘free for life’ charging offer finished a while ago, but there are still cars/owners out there with access to it. In addition Tesla will give, for instance, six months free charging for referring a new customer. But I’d expect most Tesla customers are now paying to use Tesla Superchargers.
Free for life charging was for Model S Teslas registered before some point in 2017. It is transferable to new owners though. The 6000 miles free Supercharging offer for referrals ended in September 2021.
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It would be interesting to go back to these electric car based threads in around ten years time (assuming the forum is still alive), and see who had the right hunches.
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It would be interesting to go back to these electric car based threads in around ten years time (assuming the forum is still alive), and see who had the right hunches.
The speed at which tech moves on may surprise people in the future and go in a totaly different direction, it certainly makes life interesting especialy when a new technology is researched that at the moment seems impossible but works out...
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"""No-one responded my two-pennorth ...are Tesla owners more likely to be in 'free' charger queues because they rarely charge at home?"""
I suspect that many Tesla owners commuted long distance over the holiday period and there were just to many cars at the same time to charge hence the reported 3 hour queues. I do not know how many Tesla chargers there are off the motorway network or drivers could not be bothered to try and find them with their find charger aids. I often visit Hopwood services on the M42 around 11.oo am and not noticed Teslas queuing but all the chargers are always fully occupied.
PS I do not know what analysing this thread does other than to drift as you put it
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are Tesla owners more likely to be in 'free' charger queues because they rarely charge at home?"""
They do charge at home as most round my way which is a lot more than a few years ago, charge on the road or on a drive and don`t all charge at night, a lot charge during the day and you cannot miss the cables as most are bright Yellow or have Yellow/black covers over them so the public don`t trip on them
Judging by the Teslas I see around they are the most popular EV around next to VW and the odd Porsche
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This thread has been a handy reminder for anyone considering going battery only that the charging network is not up to an acceptable standard yet, and it may not be for many years if it ever gets there at all.
Even if enough fast chargers are installed and the few selfish fools who will always spoil civilisation for the many are educated or more likely penalised in some way into behaving like normal people, there will be times when the grid can't keep up with demand.
Anyone who's called in at a service area on the way to the west country on a summer bank hol weekend Saturday will see the hundreds of cars that fill each and every one and the motorway itself rammed withg cars, quite how the grid is going to generate and supply enough power to each MSA to charge dozens of cars simultaneously is going to be the question, let alone the cabling required at the service area end....even at MSA prices the fuel pumps can barely keep up with deamnd, does anyone seriously believe there are going to be chaotic scenes when the majorituy of cars are battery only.
Personally i have no axe to grind, not interested in a battery car myself, but this thread has been handy to confirm things for me.
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This thread has been a handy reminder for anyone considering going battery only that the charging network is not up to an acceptable standard yet, and it may not be for many years if it ever gets there at all.
Even if enough fast chargers are installed and the few selfish fools who will always spoil civilisation for the many are educated or more likely penalised in some way into behaving like normal people, there will be times when the grid can't keep up with demand.
Anyone who's called in at a service area on the way to the west country on a summer bank hol weekend Saturday will see the hundreds of cars that fill each and every one and the motorway itself rammed withg cars, quite how the grid is going to generate and supply enough power to each MSA to charge dozens of cars simultaneously is going to be the question, let alone the cabling required at the service area end....even at MSA prices the fuel pumps can barely keep up with deamnd, does anyone seriously believe there are going to be chaotic scenes when the majorituy of cars are battery only.
Personally i have no axe to grind, not interested in a battery car myself, but this thread has been handy to confirm things for me.
Thats why imo not all cars will be all battery powered, their will be a mix of battery and Hydrogen, even Hydrogen ice, but I know most are against Hydrogen so I`ll leave it at that as it stirs things up lol.
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but I know most are against Hydrogen so I`ll leave it at that as it stirs things up lol.
I don't know if many people are against Hydrogen, more that they don't think it would work well - at least at present. Personally I like the idea.
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>No-one responded my two-pennorth ...are Tesla owners more likely to be in 'free' charger queues because they rarely charge at home?
I may well be wrong but I think the free-charging only applies to a limited number of early Tesla owners in the UK. Owners of the newer cars will be paying for the privilege.
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Sammy's original post, which has been described as "negative", has generated a phenomenal number of replies in a really interesting topic. In the last year, only one topic, by SLO76, seems to have got anywhere near to it in terms of replies.
Maybe 'negative' posts encourage more replies? ;-)
I'm just glad it managed to keep going so long without being locked...maybe there is hope for the forum to have some discussions like this with various viewpoints.
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Tesla don't even offer satnav or basic functionality for life now. It expires after 8 years.
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Tesla don't even offer satnav or basic functionality for life now. It expires after 8 years.
Could be a good choice for pensioners in poor health ;-(
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Sammy's original post, which has been described as "negative", has generated a phenomenal number of replies in a really interesting topic. In the last year, only one topic, by SLO76, seems to have got anywhere near to it in terms of replies.
Maybe 'negative' posts encourage more replies? ;-)
I'm just glad it managed to keep going so long without being locked...maybe there is hope for the forum to have some discussions like this with various viewpoints.
You are the only forum member to say it was negative when the post is based entirely on fact. The Tesla charging queues are still being discussed on other media platforms and will probably arise again. It would be nice if you could start a few discussions instead of continually knocking others.
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Unless anyone sees a long queue in cold weather as being a good thing, it’s a post about a negative story. I don’t think anyone can argue that.
I suspect an article from wherever it was saying ‘Everything worked swimmingly and everyone charged with fairy dust for free and had attended service of hot chocolate to the car’ wouldn’t have been reported.
Yes, it was potentially a factual story, but it wasn’t a positive one.
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Unless anyone sees a long queue in cold weather as being a good thing, it’s a post about a negative story. I don’t think anyone can argue that. I suspect an article from wherever it was saying ‘Everything worked swimmingly and everyone charged with fairy dust for free and had attended service of hot chocolate to the car’ wouldn’t have been reported. Yes, it was potentially a factual story, but it wasn’t a positive one.
It may be extremely negative to be in a Tesla faced with a 3 hour queue for me it is a positive that I do not have to be involved with such ridiculous situations and never intend to be until perhaps the situation radically improves. Potentially a factual story, NO. FACT
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Can we stick to discussing the article content or at least issues mostly related to EV. Thanks.
The article is clearly factual, whether it's positive or negative is not really the point. The article is a catalyst for discussion, although I think we're getting to the point where we've exhausted it but I see no reason yet to put the brakes on it.
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Sammy's original post, which has been described as "negative", has generated a phenomenal number of replies in a really interesting topic. In the last year, only one topic, by SLO76, seems to have got anywhere near to it in terms of replies.
Maybe 'negative' posts encourage more replies? ;-)
I'm just glad it managed to keep going so long without being locked...maybe there is hope for the forum to have some discussions like this with various viewpoints.
You are the only forum member to say it was negative when the post is based entirely on fact. The Tesla charging queues are still being discussed on other media platforms and will probably arise again. It would be nice if you could start a few discussions instead of continually knocking others.
Just because something is based on fact does not mean it's not negative...my reply was positive about the discussion continuing without being locked - that was a positive.
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Sammy's original post, which has been described as "negative", has generated a phenomenal number of replies in a really interesting topic. In the last year, only one topic, by SLO76, seems to have got anywhere near to it in terms of replies.
Maybe 'negative' posts encourage more replies? ;-)
I'm just glad it managed to keep going so long without being locked...maybe there is hope for the forum to have some discussions like this with various viewpoints.
You are the only forum member to say it was negative when the post is based entirely on fact. The Tesla charging queues are still being discussed on other media platforms and will probably arise again. It would be nice if you could start a few discussions instead of continually knocking others.
Just because something is based on fact does not mean it's not negative...my reply was positive about the discussion continuing without being locked - that was a positive.
"""Don't know why Sammy always posts negative posts - hopefully for the New Year he will have a more positive outlook.""
The above was your useless comment when this thread was 2 posts old and in my opinion quite uncalled for.
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Just because something is based on fact does not mean it's not negative...my reply was positive about the discussion continuing without being locked - that was a positive.
"""Don't know why Sammy always posts negative posts - hopefully for the New Year he will have a more positive outlook.""
The above was your useless comment when this thread was 2 posts old and in my opinion quite uncalled for.
Are you trying to get this thread locked? Move on.
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NOT ME all the facts are as above in your words
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The multiple industrial sites i go to, none state controlled, there's generally between two and half a dozen charge points in the car park if they have any at all, almost always occupied by middle/senior managment's plug in hybrids, have yet to see a mere pleb who works there plugged in.
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