In fairness, I’d suspect that CX-3 would be a bit smaller than required. It sits on Mazda 2 platform. CX-30 is a better option, but as you say it’s probably out of budget.
Granted the CX-3 is a little smaller than the C-HR, which itself is not huge, but the only requirements stated by the OP are safety, reliability, and reasonable miles, along with a preference for auto, heated seats and leather. There has been no mention of space needed, which suggests to me that it is not a big factor.
The C-HR was designed NOT to be a practical load / kid hauling family vehicle.
What a strange statement?, it may not be the most practical vehicle in its class, but it is absurd to suggest it was designed not to be practical!.
There is actually plenty of space in the back of a C-HR unless you are particularly tall (the sloping roofline would have an effect here). though the small windows do make it seem a little claustrophobic. Its boot, while some way short of the quoted capacity of the Karoq (and to a lesser extent, the 2 Series Active Tourer), is right on par with the likes of a Golf or Focus, so it certainly isn't an impractical car.
|
|
No space isn't a huge factor. I no longer have children or other passengers very often (or a dog). Generally just me and my partner. Just want something bigger than a Fiesta size.
|
|
Take a drive in a C-HR.
I hired a Toyota with the same engine and gearbox. The roar from the engine cutting in due to it having a CVT gearbox got really annoying very quickly.
Edited by groaver on 05/12/2022 at 10:56
|
|
I also test drove a 1.8 hybrid version, then ordered a 2 litre.
The 1.8 hybrid can be noisy when pressed but the 2 litre hybrid power train really suits the C-HR.
|
I hired a Toyota with the same engine and gearbox. The roar from the engine cutting in due to it having a CVT gearbox got really annoying very quickly.
The roaring from the petrol engine when it cuts in has nothing to do with it having a CVT. It is because the n/a 1.8 petrol used does not make a lot of power or torque for (for a 1.8). Combine that with the C-HR being quite heavy and of course the revs are going to be high if you want to press on. That should be the case regardless of what type of transmission is being used, otherwise what power the engine does have, wouldn't be being used effectively.
|
|
Yep. The CVT makes the constant hair dryer noise.
|
|
|
|
Perhaps I should have said droning rather than roaring.
It is the CVT box that creates this having no set gear ratios.
The coa***ness of the engine did not help endear itself to my driving experience, so much so, that vibrations could be felt throught he floor when it was working hard.
|
|
I suppose that the level of noise from CVTs very much depends upon the torque of the engine its mated to and the level of real world performance the driver wants to / can extract out of the car given it and the wieght, size and shape of said car.
Tootling around town probably wouldn't be an issue, but lots of overtaking, pulling out from junctions into busy high speed roads on a regular basis might be. A test drive under a variety of different road /driving conditions would be a must, so that the prospective owner could better gauge what their likely driving experience would be.
|
|
Obviously not all cars with CVT's are the same, but the only thing that grated me (re the powertrain) after 3 years with a 2017 Jazz 1.3 CVT was the huge fluctuation of revs. Not high revs on their own per se, with peak torque at 5k rpm and peak power at 6k rpm, that was to be expected. But because the 'gearing' was so long (as little as around 2000 rpm @ 70mph) and because there was so little torque, the revs could flare wildly without much provocation from the throttle pedal, which could get tiresome on a long run (especially on hilly terrain).
But the CVT was fantastic in every other way, it was much quicker than I expected, much better at overtaking than I expected and much more fun on a twisty country road than I expected. My own (entirely unscientific) timings suggested it was able to hit 60mph around 1.5 seconds quicker than the official time given by Honda. And the 50-70mph time was only around a second off the Hyundai i30 turbo diesel auto we had prior (which had more than double the torque at 1900 rpm). Mind you, upon flooring the throttle in the Jazz, the CVT reacted pretty much instantly, putting you exactly where you needed to be in the rev range. The reaction of the t/c auto in the i30 was very lazy by comparison!.
But also, the CVT in the Jazz was electronically stepped, to make it seem like it had gears. so the 'mooing' wasn't really a thing (in fact you could change 'gear' using the paddles behind the steering wheel).
Sounds like the C-HR 1.8 hybrid doesn't have this though.
|
|
|
|
|
I also test drove a 1.8 hybrid version, then ordered a 2 litre.
The 1.8 hybrid can be noisy when pressed but the 2 litre hybrid power train really suits the C-HR.
I wondered about this, Lee. I wouldn't consider a Corolla 1.8 but if the 2.0 is much better then I might put that in my future test drive selection.
|
I also test drove a 1.8 hybrid version, then ordered a 2 litre.
The 1.8 hybrid can be noisy when pressed but the 2 litre hybrid power train really suits the C-HR.
I wondered about this, Lee. I wouldn't consider a Corolla 1.8 but if the 2.0 is much better then I might put that in my future test drive selection.
To be fair to the 1.8, it's been around for a good while now compared to the 2L, which also has the benefit of a 'proper' first gear that then transitions to the CVT, to avoid BBD's 'mooing' (I've never heard it described that way before, but it's probably quite apt) when giving the gas pedal a good shove when getting off the mark in a hurry.
I saw this demonstrated to good effect in the Corolla 2L hybrid when tested by an American/Canadian YTer on their review video.
|
To be fair to the 1.8, it's been around for a good while now compared to the 2L, which also has the benefit of a 'proper' first gear that then transitions to the CVT
Im guessing this would be the K120 cvt transmission which has a direct gear alongside belt/cones. Introduced around 2018 IIRC. I think this transmission is used alongside conventional ICE equipped Toyotas only, certainly the hybrids dont have any belts/cones to speak of in their drivetrains. Our 1.8 CHR hybrid has a P610 transaxle, the 2.0 i think is a P711. Some background reading below,
Toyota Hybrid - Transmissions line-up (toyota-club.net)
With regards to getting of the mark in a hurry, even our humble 1.8 can surge forward with a surprising amount of gusto, the joy of electric motor instant torque.
|
|
|
|
The 2 litre Toyota power train with the CVT with mechanical 1st gear isn't available here in the UK.
2 litre hybrid Toyota available in the UK still uses an E CVT.
The 2 litre hybrid uses the newer Dynamic Force engine plus a higher capacity hybrid battery & traction motor to develop a more relaxed driving experience.
The new 5th gen hybrid power units are about to launch with 23 MY Corolla & the 1.8 hybrid power unit has received significant improvements up to 138 bhp, the 2 litre hybrid power unit has been tweaked up to 193 bhp as well.
|
|
If you are looking for reliability, FORGET anyone but Toyota or Honda. They top reliability tables for decades.
My 10 year old Jazz CVT has been 100% reliable in the 9.5 years I have owned it.
Our 19 year old Toyota Yaris has had minor replacement costing no more than £100 tops.
Do not buy a German car: the electronics/electrical systems don't age well. Son's 10 year old BMW required £1000 of electrical spares including all coils etc. His replacement 10 year old Hinda Civic has been fault free.
BMW? Bling and Much Woe,
Edited by madf on 06/12/2022 at 11:19
|
If you are looking for reliability, FORGET anyone but Toyota or Honda. They top reliability tables for decades.
My 10 year old Jazz CVT has been 100% reliable in the 9.5 years I have owned it.
Our 19 year old Toyota Yaris has had minor replacement costing no more than £100 tops.
Do not buy a German car: the electronics/electrical systems don't age well. Son's 10 year old BMW required £1000 of electrical spares including all coils etc. His replacement 10 year old Hinda Civic has been fault free.
BMW? Bling and Much Woe,
Individual experience may not be representative of the bigger picture
|
If you are looking for reliability, FORGET anyone but Toyota or Honda. They top reliability tables for decades.
My 10 year old Jazz CVT has been 100% reliable in the 9.5 years I have owned it.
Our 19 year old Toyota Yaris has had minor replacement costing no more than £100 tops.
Do not buy a German car: the electronics/electrical systems don't age well. Son's 10 year old BMW required £1000 of electrical spares including all coils etc. His replacement 10 year old Hinda Civic has been fault free.
BMW? Bling and Much Woe,
Individual experience may not be representative of the bigger picture
When it is backed up by reliability studies, it IS representative.
|
If you are looking for reliability, FORGET anyone but Toyota or Honda. They top reliability tables for decades.
My 10 year old Jazz CVT has been 100% reliable in the 9.5 years I have owned it.
Our 19 year old Toyota Yaris has had minor replacement costing no more than £100 tops.
Do not buy a German car: the electronics/electrical systems don't age well. Son's 10 year old BMW required £1000 of electrical spares including all coils etc. His replacement 10 year old Hinda Civic has been fault free.
BMW? Bling and Much Woe,
It depends upon what car/engine.gearbox you get and, for Honda at least, how old the car is. By all accounts, the reliability of their newer cars, particularly the smaller capacity turbo-petrol ones, isn't up to the high standards of the previous generations of engines.
I would suggest that with modern (last 5-10 years), the most reliable tend to be petrol-engined and specs nearer the bottom end of the range, because there's less electronic gizmos to go wrong that were (often) rushed to market to 'keep up with the Joneses'.
|
Do not buy a German car: the electronics/electrical systems don't age well. Son's 10 year old BMW required £1000 of electrical spares including all coils etc. His replacement 10 year old Hinda Civic has been fault free.
We've had good experience with VAG cars over the years:-
We had a 1984 Polo for 19 years (from new)- really reliable but needed a clutch at 127k miles
Also had a VAG 2001 Skoda Octavia(from new) in the family for 19 years - likewise needed a clutch about 130k miles and a coil pack. Generally a fabulous car.
I had a 2003 Skoda Superb mkI 1.9pd for 10 years/ 170k miles from 18 months old - little work other than a small amount of front suspension work and servicing .
I still have a 2014 Skoda Superb 1.4tsi owned from 2015 - just about faultless other than a couple of snapped springs.
Not a bad track record although to be fair I usually buy the poverty spec models.
Edited by Big John on 06/12/2022 at 13:05
|
Do not buy a German car: the electronics/electrical systems don't age well. Son's 10 year old BMW required £1000 of electrical spares including all coils etc. His replacement 10 year old Hinda Civic has been fault free.
We've had good experience with VAG cars over the years:-
We had a 1984 Polo for 19 years (from new)- really reliable but needed a clutch at 127k miles
Also had a VAG 2001 Skoda Octavia(from new) in the family for 19 years - likewise needed a clutch about 130k miles and a coil pack. Generally a fabulous car.
I had a 2003 Skoda Superb mkI 1.9pd for 10 years/ 170k miles from 18 months old - little work other than a small amount of front suspension work and servicing .
I still have a 2014 Skoda Superb 1.4tsi owned from 2015 - just about faultless other than a couple of snapped springs.
Not a bad track record although to be fair I usually buy the poverty spec models.
I bought a two year old A4 in 2001 .Full Audi SH, 70k miles, 2 years Audi warranty.
Sold it when two years were up: under warrnty it had:
new aircon compressor
two new front suspension balljoints and complete rebuild
New timing belt and tensioner (it had been replaced when purchased)
New exhaust
If I had to pay it would have cost £2k plus. Could not take risk out of warranty.
|
|
I'm hoping we get to keep doing this until we gave a full set of data for all cars ever made. I've had two Toyotas. One cracked the cylinder head, the other it was just the head gasket (and one of the shocks). I've had a Honda that had recurring problems with drive shafts, I've had a Ford that never went wrong, a Mitsubishi full of electrical problems, a couple of faultless Seats, a perfect Mini, another Mini where the passenger door sometimes didn't open etc etc.
I really don't think you can pick one brand and says it's reliable, then another and say it's not. Is a Toyota Aygo better than a Citroen C1?
|
|
We all tend to base our views on our experiences. The balance of probability (backed up by surveys) is that a Toyota will be more reliable than other cars but there will always be exceptions both ways.
|
We all tend to base our views on our experiences. The balance of probability (backed up by surveys) is that a Toyota will be more reliable than other cars but there will always be exceptions both ways.
Indeed, I have many friends who have various Toyota hybrids - one at about 200k miles and generally all have been mechanically bullet proof ignoring an Auris Touring having it's catalyst stolen. Rust still may be a thing though - the owners of the Prius (2007) have been warned although it still passed it's MOT the underside is starting to look crispy and may struggle in the future.
For me going forward I have a problem as the latest crop of VAG cars seems to be horrendous re technology reliability especially the radar, SOS & Infotainment stuff. Also I don't want basic functions such as heating controls on a touch screen. I did try the latest Toyota Corolla as a friend has recently bought one new, but Houston my tall and big frame simply doesn't fit comfortably. I was impressed siting in the latest Kia Xceed (bit staid looking) but as yet haven't driven it. I've yet to try the new Honda Civic hybrid but it's caught my attention - rather pricey though.
Edited by Big John on 06/12/2022 at 20:50
|
I did try the latest Toyota Corolla as a friend has recently bought one new, but Houston my tall and big frame simply doesn't fit comfortably. I was impressed siting in the latest Kia Xceed (bit staid looking) but as yet haven't driven it. I've yet to try the new Honda Civic hybrid but it's caught my attention - rather pricey though.
The Civic is on my list too, BJ.
It is getting great reviews.
I cannot disagree about the price but that Corolla is no cheaper.
Sign of the times. :-(
|
Indeed, I have many friends who have various Toyota hybrids - one at about 200k miles and generally all have been mechanically bullet proof ignoring an Auris Touring having it's catalyst stolen. Rust still may be a thing though - the owners of the Prius (2007) have been warned although it still passed it's MOT the underside is starting to look crispy and may struggle in the future.
It's a car that really needs to have the underbody treated if you're buying a used one, because the drivetrain will outlast it. My Avensis failed it's MOT on rusty sills, welding needed, but it wasn't worth repairing because the car was 19 years old, all of the suspension was getting tired (and rusty), and the electric steering momentarily failed twice in the last year (due to a faulty steering module) amongst other minor things. It's an area where European cars are better, but I like the Japanese electrics and simpler design.
|
I really don't think you can pick one brand and says it's reliable, then another and say it's not. Is a Toyota Aygo better than a Citroen C1?
I don't know about better but quite possibly different as whilst based on the same underlying platform they were definitely not identical - different engine availability, light fittings etc.
|
I really don't think you can pick one brand and says it's reliable, then another and say it's not. Is a Toyota Aygo better than a Citroen C1?
I don't know about better but quite possibly different as whilst based on the same underlying platform they were definitely not identical - different engine availability, light fittings etc.
No, they are not visually identical, but the differences were minor and cosmetic only. Strip away the outer body panels of a C1, 107 and Aygo and you'll find they are mounted on the same monocoque. All three were built in the same Czech Republic factory, so unlikely the quality would vary between them.
In the UK, the Aygo was only ever offered with the 1.0 triple, but in some others it could also be had with the same PSA 1.4 diesel as per the C1 and 107. So it was only the 1.2 Puretech which the Aygo never got.
|
I really don't think you can pick one brand and says it's reliable, then another and say it's not. Is a Toyota Aygo better than a Citroen C1?
I don't know about better but quite possibly different as whilst based on the same underlying platform they were definitely not identical - different engine availability, light fittings etc.
No, they are not visually identical, but the differences were minor and cosmetic only. Strip away the outer body panels of a C1, 107 and Aygo and you'll find they are mounted on the same monocoque. All three were built in the same Czech Republic factory, so unlikely the quality would vary between them.
In the UK, the Aygo was only ever offered with the 1.0 triple, but in some others it could also be had with the same PSA 1.4 diesel as per the C1 and 107. So it was only the 1.2 Puretech which the Aygo never got.
Despite the 1.2 and 1.4 alternatives, the Citroen C1 and Peugeot 107/108 had the vast majority built with the same 1.0 3-cylinder Daihatsu engine used in the Toyota Aygo.
|
I really don't think you can pick one brand and says it's reliable, then another and say it's not. Is a Toyota Aygo better than a Citroen C1?
I don't know about better but quite possibly different as whilst based on the same underlying platform they were definitely not identical - different engine availability, light fittings etc.
No, they are not visually identical, but the differences were minor and cosmetic only. Strip away the outer body panels of a C1, 107 and Aygo and you'll find they are mounted on the same monocoque. All three were built in the same Czech Republic factory, so unlikely the quality would vary between them.
In the UK, the Aygo was only ever offered with the 1.0 triple, but in some others it could also be had with the same PSA 1.4 diesel as per the C1 and 107. So it was only the 1.2 Puretech which the Aygo never got.
Despite the 1.2 and 1.4 alternatives, the Citroen C1 and Peugeot 107/108 had the vast majority built with the same 1.0 3-cylinder Daihatsu engine used in the Toyota Aygo.
In other countries, the cost of diesel vs petrol at the pumps (presumably) made the diesel version a more viable prospect. But in the UK, the prices at the pump for fuel, the 1.0's efficiency, and how much cheaper the 1.0 was to buy, meant the diesel versions made little or no financial sense unless you did big miles, which is unlikely or a car like this!.
As for the 1.2, well the extra power may be useful and/or welcome for some. but for most, the 1.0 is fine. I've driven plenty (and we had a Daihatsu Sirion with the same engine for 3 years) and they are nippy enough, amusingly so in town. I would be interested to try a 1.2 just out of curiosity though!.
|
|
Could really use some advice.
I am considering buying an X5 3.0 d Xdrive m sport 2015 with 95k on the clock. its priced well for 19.5k There is part SH at 18.9k and MOT till Dec 2023.
Should i commit with aftermarket warranty also? or stick to the consumer rights with 6 month repairs and 30 days refund. I am buying from CG.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
