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all - E cars - HGV ~ P Valentine

Owners of emission-free vehicles to pay tax for the first time in bid to plug £7 billion shortfall (msn.com)

So many good comments on this link, but I want to ask the same question here ( well one of them ), did anyone not see this coming. ??

also, does anything think this will not spread to all variations of non-fossil fuel cars ??

all - E cars - RT

Did anyone naively think that zero VED would last forever? Did anyone naively think than any concession would be exempt in the worst spending crisis this country has ever suffered?

all - E cars - Terry W

It was never likely that EVs would remain free of tax - just a matter of time, how the rax would be collected, and how much.

The current budget difficulties may have bought the decision forward, although it was always going to be easier as (a) the cost of new EVs came down, and (b) sales increased.

all - E cars - Xileno

The tax system has long been used to incentivise people to change behaviour, back in the late 90's it was to encourage diesel sales. Personally I would prefer other methods to make good the tax shortfall such as road pricing.

all - E cars - John F

Should've bought an old TR7:-))). Historic vehicle = zero VED!

Seriously, isn't it about time VEDuty was replaced by mileage duty? It's not fair that a pensioner doing fewer than 4,000 miles a year on badly maintained local roads should pay as much as a business traveller doing more than 20,000 miles a year on smooth pricy motorways which are urgently expensively repaired as soon as they are damaged. The fuel of propulsion, whether steam, alcohol or electricity, is irrelevant.

all - E cars - RT

Should've bought an old TR7:-))). Historic vehicle = zero VED!

Seriously, isn't it about time VEDuty was replaced by mileage duty? It's not fair that a pensioner doing fewer than 4,000 miles a year on badly maintained local roads should pay as much as a business traveller doing more than 20,000 miles a year on smooth pricy motorways which are urgently expensively repaired as soon as they are damaged. The fuel of propulsion, whether steam, alcohol or electricity, is irrelevant.

Prior to the introduction of EVs, we did have such a tax, it's fuel duty - the government, or its civil servants need to work out a way to tax EVs on a similar basis.

all - E cars - Crickleymal

Should've bought an old TR7:-))). Historic vehicle = zero VED!

Seriously, isn't it about time VEDuty was replaced by mileage duty? It's not fair that a pensioner doing fewer than 4,000 miles a year on badly maintained local roads should pay as much as a business traveller doing more than 20,000 miles a year on smooth pricy motorways which are urgently expensively repaired as soon as they are damaged. The fuel of propulsion, whether steam, alcohol or electricity, is irrelevant.

Hah! You should try the M5 between Gloucester and Birmingham, smooth it is not.

Other than that I agree. I've always said that VED should be put onto fuel so that the heaviest users pay the most tax.

all - E cars - Sofa Spud

Inevitably EVs will have to pay VED at some stage, and petrol and diesel vehicles will probably have to pay higher taxes.

To combat congestion, the physical size of cars could also partly determine the tax rate, so that cars that exceed a certain 'footprint' in terms of their length or width would pay more.

.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 12/11/2022 at 23:03

all - E cars - RT

Inevitably EVs will have to pay VED at some stage, and petrol and diesel vehicles will probably have to pay higher taxes.

To combat congestion, the physical size of cars could also partly determine the tax rate, so that cars that exceed a certain 'footprint' in terms of their length or width would pay more.

.

The size of cars makes little difference to congestion - a narrow/low car takes the same space as a wide/high car and the length makes little difference as the safe cgap to cars in front/behind needs to be taken into account.

all - E cars - FiestaOwner

"Personally I would prefer other methods to make good the tax shortfall such as road pricing"

"It's not fair that a pensioner doing fewer than 4,000 miles a year on badly maintained local roads should pay as much as a business traveller doing more than 20,000 miles a year"

"I've always said that VED should be put onto fuel so that the heaviest users pay the most tax."

"To combat congestion, the physical size of cars could also partly determine the tax rate, so that cars that exceed a certain 'footprint' in terms of their length or width would pay more."

Everyone favours a tax system where they pay the least, as the above comments demonstrate. I do too! Therefore I favour the comment favouring a tax on the size of the car! The reality is, the motorist is a cash cow.

In my area (Fife and Tayside), before the pandemic, the public transport system was limited and infrequent. Now due to lack of bus drivers, services are cancelled left, right and centre (with little notice). The railways were never known for their reliability anyway, but now they have been having industrial action for months. It's simply impossible to rely on public transport to get to and from work. For many of us the car is the ONLY choice.

Increasing tax on road transport increases the cost of everything we buy, whether in the supermarket, local shops or online. It all gets transported by road. The consumer always picks up the extra cost.

The reality is that ALL forms of transport are bad for the environment. With EV's you still have the pollution with the build and scrapping process. You have all the issues with producing the batteries, but the eco warriors don't want to talk about that.

Electric buses: you still have to manufacture them. The advantage over ICE is that the emissions are produced at the power station (nuclear, oil, gas etc), not in the town or city centre.

Wind farms are hardly green, you still have to build the things and all the access roads. You still need to drive to them to maintain them.

I saw a programme a few years ago about offshore wind. Due to poor weather they couldn't send a crew out to maintain them by boat, so they sent them out by helicopter. Again, the eco warriors won't talk about this.

Cycling may suit some fitness fanatics, who have access to suitable infrastructure and showers at work! My commute is on unlit busy fast roads without cycle lanes.

However back to the opening post. Taxing EV's was always going to happen. The government of the day always taxes as many citizens as they can, for as much as they can. As EV's sales are taking off, they can (and will) now tax them for as much as they can.

all - E cars - Adampr

Firstly, it's in the Mail so is just something they made up. Sounds fairly likely though. Secondly, what's £20 or even £120 a year on top of your £30k+ car?

all - E cars - alan1302

Wind farms are hardly green, you still have to build the things and all the access roads. You still need to drive to them to maintain them.

I saw a programme a few years ago about offshore wind. Due to poor weather they couldn't send a crew out to maintain them by boat, so they sent them out by helicopter. Again, the eco warriors won't talk about this.

All forms of power generation cause some kind of pollution/negative effect. Wind generates the least, it's a balance. Even if you have to drive and use the odd helicopter it still generates massively less pollution than say burning coal or gas. People don't mention it as it's not worth mentioning.

all - E cars - Crickleymal

Wind farms are hardly green, you still have to build the things and all the access roads. You still need to drive to them to maintain them.

I saw a programme a few years ago about offshore wind. Due to poor weather they couldn't send a crew out to maintain them by boat, so they sent them out by helicopter. Again, the eco warriors won't talk about this.

All forms of power generation cause some kind of pollution/negative effect. Wind generates the least, it's a balance. Even if you have to drive and use the odd helicopter it still generates massively less pollution than say burning coal or gas. People don't mention it as it's not worth mentioning.

I was going to say exactly that. The occasional trip by helicopter is negligible compared with the pollution from a coal or gas fired power station.

all - E cars - Andrew-T

To go back to historical basics, road-tax (or VED) was intended to pay for maintenance of public roads as traffic steadily increased. Way before that, local authorities had to cover the cost, which was becoming impossible.

Therefore, using socialist principles, VED should be according to the weight of each vehicle and the amount it occupies the roads. On that simple basis, duty on fuel should be as simple and direct as could be arranged. Recent manipulations to persuade owners to replace high-emission cars with better ones (while helping the motor makers) have distorted the whole system.

Another difficulty is that if duty on fuel was great enough to cover this cost, it would no doubt become worth while to smuggle fuel from cheaper sources ....

all - E cars - Will deBeast

Inevitably EVs will have to pay VED at some stage, and petrol and diesel vehicles will probably have to pay higher taxes.

To combat congestion, the physical size of cars could also partly determine the tax rate, so that cars that exceed a certain 'footprint' in terms of their length or width would pay more.

.

The size of cars makes little difference to congestion - a narrow/low car takes the same space as a wide/high car and the length makes little difference as the safe cgap to cars in front/behind needs to be taken into account.

Sure, when they're moving.

But the side streets around here are harder to navigate because bigger and bigger cars are parked up.

all - E cars - Terry W

Very few of us like being taxed, yet taxation is necessary to fund public services. From a government point of view the focus for taxation will likely be:

  • ease of collection
  • least vulnerable to evasion or fraud
  • encourages "positive" behaviour changes
  • least damaging to the prospects of future electoral success

Motoring taxes have evolved to be relatively cheap and easy to collect through VED, VAT and fuel duties. There is some degree of public acceptance - they represent a sort of consensus least worst option (not the most popular).

Changes to motoring taxation necessary due to the different characteristics of EVs will often hang on what individuals feel suits them best. Simple maths - if the overall tax take remains constant, expect around half the motoring public to be unhappy with the outcome.

all - E cars - Bolt

The size of cars makes little difference to congestion

does on and in town where the road space width wise is limited, I come across this everyday where someone in a SUV gets stuck because of a parked car and they do not or are unable to overtake the car due to traffic from opposite direction, this holds everyone behind up, so yes it does make a difference to congestion. and they should either learn to drive or get a smaller car they can drive IMO

all - E cars - davecooper

VED on ev's will have absolutely no effect on ev take up at all. The move to electric is now self sustaining. Most ev's seem to be north of £35k anyway so an extra £120 or so each year is not going to be noticed when you are probably paying £400+ per month on a pcp. I am going to consider an ev next time round but VED won't be in the buying equation. We all use the roads so we all need to pay to maintain and update the infrastructure, as long as this is where the money goes and does not find its way into other government departments.

all - E cars - catsdad

Maybe VED will be introduced and stay at a token amount but the falling tax revenue on petrol and diesel as EVs kick in will need to be addressed somehow. Hence the separate thread on road pricing.

all - E cars - mcb100
April 2025 VED on EV’s.
all - E cars - Terry W

VED at £165 for 2022 is the minor part of car taxation.

A typical ICE car covering (say) 12000 miles pa at 45mpg (10mpl) will use 1200 litres of fuel on which VAT and fuel duty is 69p per litre - £690pa.

More taxes to come for EV owners over the next few years I suspect!

all - E cars - Xileno

I think we all know this was coming - it will be interesting to see how it's implemented. Flat rate, power, weight etc. The pandemic will have hastened this, the Govt. must have lost a lot of fuel tax revenue with people working from home and generally driving less.

all - E cars - FP

"... the Govt. must have lost a lot of fuel tax revenue with people working from home and generally driving less."

I'm not sure that's true now. Immediately after the first lockdown traffic seemed lighter, but round here I'm certain that it built up quickly to much higher levels than before and it continues at that higher level.

Talking to people locally the reason offered is that public transport took a hammering because people saw it as less safe than sitting in their car and now we're beyond that, bus services, which were cut back at the time, are less attractive. (Certainly my own recent experiences with buses have been intensely frustrating.)

all - E cars - martin.mc

Interesting as some pre 2017 diesel and petrol cars are zero or £20/£30 VED.

all - E cars - RT

Interesting as some pre 2017 diesel and petrol cars are zero or £20/£30 VED.

I have two - a 2016 VW Touareg which is £265 and a 2011 Citroen C1 which is £20 - I could live with both being £165 like post-2017 cars - but I'd feel agrieved if the Citroen is increased to £165 without the VW being reduced.

I suspect, and hope, that the government leaves VED for pre-2017 cars alone - they do of course represent an ever-decreasing proportion of cars in use.

all - E cars - martin.mc

There will be an incentive for people to keep them on the road longer though. I regularly see a showroom condition 52 plate Corsa in the supermarket car park

all - E cars - gordonbennet

I suspect, and hope, that the government leaves VED for pre-2017 cars alone - they do of course represent an ever-decreasing proportion of cars in use.

I hope you are right but suspect the other.

When they first brought in the VED bandings they backdated the highest rate to cars regd in 2001, this met with serious objections and was soon revised, not so sure in the current climate (no pun intended) that the populace won't just accept anything this rogue govt does.

Over time those in charge, govts and above, have perfected their divide and rule methods, they don't clobber everyone at once but go after on group at a time.

For reasons i can't comprehend those not affected at the time fail to realise that because they breathe a sigh of relief and go along with it, often finger pointing yah boo at those currently being persecuted ie the politics of envy, that in due course it will be their turn too.

If the push to Diesel then its subsequent demonisation wasn't a clear as glass example of how this works then there's no hope for people and they deserve fully what is coming.

all - E cars - alan1302

If the push to Diesel then its subsequent demonisation wasn't a clear as glass example of how this works then there's no hope for people and they deserve fully what is coming.

If you think that shows an example then you must believe that government is very clever and has a clear plan to follow. I don't see that is the governemnt we have now at all and they seem to lucrch from one short term issue to another without showing an understanding of what they actually are trying to do or how to do it.

all - E cars - Andrew-T

<< If the push to Diesel then its subsequent demonisation wasn't a clear as glass example of how this works then there's no hope for people and they deserve fully what is coming. >>

You can't imagine that any govt had thought far enough ahead to renege on the diesel arrangement ? The push to diesel was to reduce the overall output of CO2. It was only later that they realised diesels also generated inconvenient amounts of NO2, a much less pleasant gas to live with.

all - E cars - mcb100
Exactly this. Diesels, at that time, were producing, vehicle for vehicle, lower levels of CO2. Which is bad for the planet.
So migrate to diesel and lower carbon emissions.
Petrol, and petrol/electric hybrid technology developed to a point of approximate equivalence to diesel without all the nasty stuff that comes out of a compression ignition exhaust that causes respiratory complications to those exposed to it.
So petrol, for the moment becomes the better option. Until we go zero emissions in use.