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Any - Slip Roads - HGV ~ P Valentine

Driving lesson ends with 60mph crash as learner is rammed into motorway barriers by impatient Mercedes driver | Watch (msn.com)

I would be interested to see who can answer correctly, who is at fault ? Without looking at the highway code or checking online.

I am especially interested in any instructors who are willing to express an opinion.

Any - Slip Roads - mcb100
No need to look at the Highway Code or check online. There was nowhere else the learner could have gone so it’s all down to the overtaking driver.
Any - Slip Roads - FP

The title of the thread includes the words "slip roads". If the driver whose car was rammed was attempting to join a main road road/motorway and did not realise they don't have right of way it could explain a lot.

PS Now I've read the story the situation is not as I assumed. The Mercedes driver was attempting a dangerous and probably illegal manouvre. No need to consult the Highway Code.

I'm not sure what the point of the thread is. It's obvious who's at fault, unless I'm missing something.

Edited by FP on 25/10/2022 at 12:10

Any - Slip Roads - skidpan

The OP has been a professional driver for over 30 years (or so they say), surely they should know who is to blame.

Any - Slip Roads - Cris_on_the_gas

Assuming Car was displaying L plate to the rear. Mercedes driver should be charged with careless driving.

Any - Slip Roads - Xileno

Well you learn something new every day so they say. I didn't know learners were allowed on motorways.

Any - Slip Roads - FP

They have been for some time, I believe, precisely to allow them to be instructed and to gain valuable experience they would not otherwise get.

Any - Slip Roads - Andrew-T

Well you learn something new every day so they say. I didn't know learners were allowed on motorways.

Well, no. But plenty of cars display L plates but are sometimes driven by a non-learner. Especially in one-car families - if there still are some.

Any - Slip Roads - alan1302

The title of the thread includes the words "slip roads". If the driver whose car was rammed was attempting to join a main road road/motorway and did not realise they don't have right of way it could explain a lot.

PS Now I've read the story the situation is not as I assumed. The Mercedes driver was attempting a dangerous and probably illegal manouvre. No need to consult the Highway Code.

I'm not sure what the point of the thread is. It's obvious who's at fault, unless I'm missing something.

Based on posts the Op usually posts I expect they had not read the full description of what happened and think the learner should have given way.

Any - Slip Roads - mcb100
I’d suspect that the OP is angling towards the fact that drivers joining a motorway or dual carriageway from a slip road have to give way to traffic already on the main carriageway. And you could argue that’s the case here - the M-B is already in lane 1.
In reality, for me, it’s driving without due care and attention from the M-B driver, compounded by the learner not adjusting their speed sufficiently to merge without contact.
It’s still on the overtaker for me, though.
Any - Slip Roads - alan1302
I’d suspect that the OP is angling towards the fact that drivers joining a motorway or dual carriageway from a slip road have to give way to traffic already on the main carriageway. And you could argue that’s the case here - the M-B is already in lane 1. In reality, for me, it’s driving without due care and attention from the M-B driver, compounded by the learner not adjusting their speed sufficiently to merge without contact. It’s still on the overtaker for me, though.

They MB was over taking on the slip road and trying to then get past on lane one...they they had a spin and crashed into the learner driver.

Any - Slip Roads - mcb100
I suspect the school car contacted the near side rear corner of the SLK, pushing the nose left and across the bows of the camera car.
Still no excuse for rank poor driving by the overtaking car.
Any - Slip Roads - Andrew-T
I’d suspect that the OP is angling towards the fact that drivers joining a motorway or dual carriageway from a slip road have to give way to traffic already on the main carriageway.

About 50 years ago I accompanied my then boss on a trip which involved a motorway. At the time he would have been about 50, but seemed to think the bottom of a slip road followed the same rules as an everyday Give Way sign, so he never had any joining speed.

Any - Slip Roads - mcb100
Did he also indicate left at the give way, given that’s what he perceived he was doing?
Any - Slip Roads - Bromptonaut

So, the first part of the film is from a front facing camera, the second, which for some reason is a mirror image is the view to the rear.

Merc seems to follow the dash cam car down the slip road and attempt an immediate overtake.

Is there a third vehicle, white possibly a Skoda, in lane 2/3 impeding the Mercedes?

Either way, the Merc driver is at fault.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 25/10/2022 at 17:20

Any - Slip Roads - Manatee

Exactly this happened to my wife, I was with her at the time - without the collision of course. She was forced almost to brake to a halt. She had aligned with a space in the adjacent lane she was joining, and the berk behind pulled out and drove into it.

Dunning Kruger is not the exception, it's the rule. To see high confidence combining with very low competence, just count the tailgaters in lane 3.

Any - Slip Roads - Sofa Spud

A tricky situation when joining busy motorways is when you ease off to let a vehicle in lane 1 pass before joining, at exactly the same moment as the other driver slows to let you on, so you're both slowing down side-by-side.

Any - Slip Roads - HGV ~ P Valentine

Ok so here it is ...

From the 4th June 2018, learners drivers have been allowed on motorways, as well as the usual rules L plates etc the following also applies,

It MUST be in a duel control car.

It must have a qualified driving instructor ( not a learner instructor )

Learner drivers on motorways from 4 June 2018 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, totally right, Traffic on the motorway MUST be given priority, which in practical terms means you have to speed up ( max 70 for a car, 60 for a car pulling a trailer ) to get in front without cutting them up, slow down so as to fold in behind, and if you can't do either then stop until a safe gap is available.

The Highway Code - Motorways (253 to 274) - Guidance - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know that there seems little point in this, but, as I drive for a living I would be a rich man if I had a penny every time ( both cars and lorries ) a vehicle played chicken with the side of my truck, in a debate with someone I was working with I even phoned the non-emergency police and asked their advice, with the speaker on he listened and learnt a thing or 2 from what the police told us over the phone.

Part of the problem is they changed the wording for a little while and said traffic joining the motorway had to merge with other traffic, A large minority believed that to mean that it was a negotiation when joining a carriageway, even when seeing a high sided vehicle, they try to force us to move across without knowing what there is on the lane to our right, not having the intelligence to realise there could be a car, or a few motorbikes and there is nowhere for us to go.

Another point is, which no one picked up on, is that if the car was legal to be used as training vehicle on motorway, then it has to be dual control, so that being the case why did the instructor not use his brake when the driver failed to do so ? it is possible he/she was on the phone, doing paperwork or doing something else, any 1 of which is illegal.

The final point is, that drivers do not look at the first opportunity, preferring to wait until they are close to the line instead of looking when they first see the carriageway, and planning there move off the slip road.

Edited by HGV ~ P Valentine on 26/10/2022 at 11:10

Any - Slip Roads - Andrew-T

It MUST be in a duel control car.

This is one where the driver and instructor have differences of opinion ? :-)

Any - Slip Roads - John F

I would be a rich man if I had a penny every time ( both cars and lorries ) a vehicle played chicken with the side of my truck,

Depends what you call 'play chicken'. I was nearly a nugget the other day on lane 3 of the 4 lane crowded 60mph M1. HGV alongside on lane 2 approaches slightly slower lorry, switches on indicators expecting me to move out of the way (by barging into busy lane 4) or slowing down to let him (or her) into lane 3 to overtake it. Full beam and hand on horn, I held my position/nerve and, despite dangerously edging over, he had to do what HGVs hate to do......apply the brakes!. It then aggressively tailgated me - horn blaring, lights glaring.

I guess most regular m-way users are fed up with the breed of lorry drivers who seem to think that the R indicator allows a lane change in any circumstance. And why they are allowed to drive for miles on end 'en echelon' escapes me. They can effectively reduce a four lane motorway to one lane across half a county. Surely only two lanes should be available - especially at weekends.

Any - Slip Roads - corax

.

Edited by corax on 26/10/2022 at 18:04

Any - Slip Roads - Engineer Andy

This obviously 100% the fault of the red Merc driver*. They should never have attempted the overtake in the first place, and as a minimum (they easily had the room to do this) just filtered into the first lane and hung back to give the other driver slipping on the room to do so as well, especially as they had no hard shoulder to go and that the other driver (presumably who had L plates showing) was an inexperienced driver.

The only 'fault' on the learner driver's side was not filtering in as soon as they were safely able to (there were no vehicles blocking them fro that or too near for safety in that lane until the red car overtook), rather (as many people do) doing so as the lane reduces in width, i.e. by the end of the 'slip-on' lane. That being said, they were't doing anything illegal or, in my opinion, that would count against them in a fault claim against the other driver.

IMHO the Merc driver is at fault and possibly guilty of, at best, careless driving, perhaps reckless/danagerous driving, given the circumstances. They certainly weren't driving defensively.

* Edit - I am presuming that the learner's passenger was someone who meant the learner was allowed to drive on the motorway (by law / Highway Code and insurance cover).

Edited by Engineer Andy on 26/10/2022 at 13:29

Any - Slip Roads - mcb100
Guessing about what the instructor was up to is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

I haven’t seen a point where it would have been useful to apply the brakes - quite the contrary, the school car needed to accelerate to get out of the way of the M-B. That’s one thing an ADI can’t do as dual accelerator’s aren’t allowed on test so aren’t generally fitted.
Any - Slip Roads - focussed

As an ex-instructor who used to take my recently qualified pupils on a full day motorway experience known as Pass Plus - usually M11 + M25 + M1 + north circular etc my impression is that the instructor should have been more aware of what was going on around his car.

As it was the pupil's first motorway lesson the instructor should assume that he/she is going to be looking ahead more than using the mirrors so the instructor should be more vigilant behind for this lesson.

As an instructor it's not easy to use the LH door mirror to scan behind, as it's set up for the pupil not the instructor, so I always had a clip on mirror on top of the door mirror for me to check behind, as well as my own internal mirror to look through the rear window and another mirror to check the RH blind spot without turning my head.

As for what the h*ll the driver of the Mercedes was doing getting his car in a spin at 60 - 70 mph on a dry road - that's another story.

Any - Slip Roads - Will deBeast

When the A55 was dualled across Anglesey, a few drivers (who clearly hadn't been to the mainland), had never come across slip roads before. Instead of feeding into the traffic, they approached the main road at 90 degrees to the oncoming traffic. It didn't take long for them to adjust, but there were a few accidents.