I like the concept too, but I do wonder how long until fully electric cars make them obsolete.
It isn't fully electric cars which will make PHEV's obsolete, it is the charging infrastructure. Using the term range anxiety isn't really accurate, it should really be called charging anxiety-will there be a charger free where I choose/need to stop, and will it be working?.
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We have had a Skoda Superb PHEV for 2 years now, taking yours point one by one
I just had a test drive in one of these. I wasn't planning to buy one before, but my local garage is an excellent Seat franchise, so I thought it was worth a look.
If you have an excellent local Seat franchise you are very lucky. We had a Leon before the first Superb and to be fair to the Seat dealers they were pretty poor. The sales team at our closest showed no interest in selling us a car, we left after 30 minutes feeling suicidal. So we went to the next closest, things started well, got a test drive in the exact spec we wanted but the salesman did not seem to understand the words "we want a better deal". After 4 hours we left feeling suicidal. They rang back the next day asking what we wanted (again) told them (again) and they offered the same (again). Bought one via a broker the next day saving almost £2000 on thier bet offer and we also got £500 PX. Deal went well but soon after there were issues with their paperwork which they failed to understand. Seat Customer Services sorted it and sent us £200 compensation. Vowed never to go back. So we went to the the closest Seat dealer for the first service, 2 days after a large pool of oil on the drive, called Seat Assist, sump plug loose. He sorted it and the oil level was fine but the under engine shield was wrecked by the oil. Dealer refused to sort, nothing to do with them. Seat Customer Services got it sorted and gave us further compensation. Never went back again. 2nd and 3rd services carried out by the next closest dealer. Whilst we found their sales team poor their service staff were fine. Bought the first Superb next, a Leon estate was on our wish list but even the broker had given up on Seat sales.
A very odd car. Very comfy, but the interior is all a bit...grey. The much-hated heater controls seem absolutely fine to me. It's got unnecessary emergency braking, but no adaptive cruise.
Not driven a current Leon but grey is pretty normal. Emergency braking is pretty much standard on all cars now and if not standard ACC is an option or fitted on higher specs.
Hard acceleration triggers the petrol engine, which makes a right racket. Quite a lot of road noise, although this one was on 18 inch wheels, so...
The petrol engine has to kick in when you accelerate hard, all PHEV's work like that. Its fair to say the 1.4 TSi in the iV is not quiet as muted as the 1.4 TSi in the Leon and first Superb but its far from raucous. When the ICE and electric work together it goes like stink, fastest road car I have ever driven. Our Leon on 55 profile 16" wheels was quiet, the estate we tried on 45 profile 17" wheel was much noisier. But both our Superbs on 17" wheel with 55 profile tyres have been very quiet. Its the tyre profile not the wheel size. If, as I suspect the 18" Leon is on 40 profiles it must be pretty awful.
I love the PHEV concept, it suits us perfectly. All of our local running is on battery and on the 80 mile round trip to relatives the battery/ICE mix is very economical. On long holiday trips there is no worries about finding a charger (pretty much impossible where we go) and its fair to say I have been more than happy with the mpg the car has done on those longer trips with no charging. 58 mpg from a large, heavy, fast, auto, very comfortable car is impressive in my book, better than we got form the first Superb which as surprised me considering the mpg a colleague achieved from his Auris Hybrid tourer, it was no better than our Leon.
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Hard acceleration triggers the petrol engine, which makes a right racket. Quite a lot of road noise, although this one was on 18 inch wheels, so...
The petrol engine has to kick in when you accelerate hard, all PHEV's work like that. Its fair to say the 1.4 TSi in the iV is not quiet as muted as the 1.4 TSi in the Leon and first Superb but its far from raucous.
On my old 225xe, the ICE cutting in was seamless at moderate throttle input - you'd only know from the revcounter moving. However if you were in EV mode and booted it, the ICE would leap into life and straight into 'kickdown' mode, revving up to 6,000 which was a bit raucous.
But as you say, with both motors combined it was very quick with brilliant mid-range punch and (literally) electric throttle response, fantastic for cross-country A and B roads.
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Hard acceleration triggers the petrol engine, which makes a right racket. Quite a lot of road noise, although this one was on 18 inch wheels, so...
The petrol engine has to kick in when you accelerate hard, all PHEV's work like that. Its fair to say the 1.4 TSi in the iV is not quiet as muted as the 1.4 TSi in the Leon and first Superb but its far from raucous.
On my old 225xe, the ICE cutting in was seamless at moderate throttle input - you'd only know from the revcounter moving. However if you were in EV mode and booted it, the ICE would leap into life and straight into 'kickdown' mode, revving up to 6,000 which was a bit raucous.
But as you say, with both motors combined it was very quick with brilliant mid-range punch and (literally) electric throttle response, fantastic for cross-country A and B roads.
With the the DSG in the Superb it does not go instantly up to 6000 rpm like it does in a Toyota Corolla when you bury the pedal (with the road speed catching up eventually). It simply selects the gear needed and accelerates (fast), don't think I have seen it go much above 4000 rpm (although its fair to say the tiny rev counter is not that easy to see). As you say, in normal motoring you hardly notice when the ICE kicks in.
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Very interesting reading. I wonder how much potential damage is being done to the ICE in these cars when drivers floor it and the ICE goes from (not used for ages or merely cold) zero revs to 4K + in an instant ? Also, how is the ICE use monitored for servicing requirements ? I will be keeping my '08 turbo diesel Civic a while longer and watching closely.
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I have been thinking exactly the same thing. Cold winter's day, oil thick, suddenly going from EV to ICE mode can't be good. How has this been mitigated by the engineers?
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Yes, I should have been clearer - the petrol engine cutting in under normal use was seamless and near-silent. The issues was when I'd accelerate hard, the engine would come in at a very low gear before shifting back to a more sensible one.
I suppose I was imagining it would perform like an EV whereas it actually performs like an ICE auto. I suppose it would have to, what with having gears, but it's not what I expected. Presumably the electric setup in a PHEV doesn't have the same grunt as a full EV.
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I have been thinking exactly the same thing. Cold winter's day, oil thick, suddenly going from EV to ICE mode can't be good. How has this been mitigated by the engineers?
Can't see how it can be mitigated? Personally I think phev is a bit of waste of time, your probably better off with a full fat ev although I do like mild hybrid where the electric helps the ice rather than the other way around.
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I have been thinking exactly the same thing. Cold winter's day, oil thick, suddenly going from EV to ICE mode can't be good. How has this been mitigated by the engineers?
Things have changed a lot since the day of "thick" oils, the Superb iV uses 0w20 fully synthetic not 20w50 like cars of old. The thinner higher quality oil works over a much wider temp range and not only provides better protection at high temps and revs but also better flow and protection with a cold engine. Engines are also made to far higher specs and of better materials than they were years ago despite what many on here may think.
I can remember when our neighbour used to run his car (a Ford 100E Prefect) at full choke under my bedroom window every morning to warm up the oil and water before he drove off. My dad used to be fuming but he insisted it was better for the car. Guess which lasted longer, dads Commer van (which he never warmed up) or the Ford Prefect.
Personally I think phev is a bit of waste of time, your probably better off with a full fat ev although I do like mild hybrid where the electric helps the ice rather than the other way around.
Its the Mild Hybrid that is a waste of time. Its only been invented to help lower emissions in town by essentially making stop/start more reliable. Does nothing for the performance or economy but probably makes the manufacturers a nice pile of cash. Like ICE cars the Mild Hybrid is banned from sale in 2030, even the barmy Government could see how pointless it is.
The PHEV's worst problem is the people who buy them to save BEK tax and never charge it. Use them as intended and they are really good.
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With the the DSG in the Superb it does not go instantly up to 6000 rpm like it does in a Toyota Corolla when you bury the pedal (with the road speed catching up eventually). It simply selects the gear needed and accelerates (fast), don't think I have seen it go much above 4000 rpm (although its fair to say the tiny rev counter is not that easy to see). As you say, in normal motoring you hardly notice when the ICE kicks in.
The 225 has a 6-speed torque-converter auto which was very well calibrated 99% of the time apart from when you buried the pedal in EV mode. The ICE and autobox ECU seemed a bit too keen to engage kickdown mode immediately. It certainly accelerated very rapidly if you did!
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I think most people on here have a modicum of mechanical sympathy. I’d never drive a petrol or diesel car hard on a cold engine. With my current Kuga PHEV, I try to do the same. I can get from home to work on battery, but there are only a couple of places where it’s safe to overtake and you really want the extra punch of the petrol engine then, so that you’re minimising your time on the wrong side of the road.
I get the petrol engine to kick in a mile or so before I’m going to get it working hard, so that it’s at least a little bit warmed up first.
I’ve got mine (company car) for the lower benefit in kind taxation than a conventional petrol or diesel, but I do plug it in. We get reimbursed for business mileage at the HMRC rates, which vary be engine size, so the better the MPG I can get from it, the better for my pocket. I’ve average 119 mpg over 24,000 miles so far. To be fair, that doesn’t reflect the cost of home charging, but on an EV night rate, it’s still only around £1 for a full charge, which gives around 30 miles range on winter and up to around 45 miles in summer.
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