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I like the buzz. No interest in buying it.
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I passed an Ora Funky Cat on the M42 last week. I have to say, only based on a lane 2 fly-by, I liked it. A good strong red colour and better in the metal than the preview photos are portraying it.
It wasn't headed for Funkytown by any chance? ;-)
What do you drive?
An Ora Funky cat.
There's no need to swear, I only asked!
The Buzz looks a bit different from the usual crossover electrics everywhere else.
Edited by groaver on 16/09/2022 at 10:59
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Actually a Buzz at£30.000 would be great.
But not going to happen.
Edited by _ORB_ on 16/09/2022 at 11:15
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VW couldn't help spoiling an otherwise exceptionally neat design by adding that untidy diamond mesh grille at the front.
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Guy I know has one on order, promised me a drive when it arrives, I'll report back....
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VW couldn't help spoiling an otherwise exceptionally neat design by adding that untidy diamond mesh grille at the front.
Given the RRP, I wonder whether they're going to use real diamonds? :-)
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VW couldn't help spoiling an otherwise exceptionally neat design by adding that untidy diamond mesh grille at the front.
It does look a bit odd, but it could have been a lot worse!
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I passed an Ora Funky Cat on the M42 last week. I have to say, only based on a lane 2 fly-by, I liked it. A good strong red colour and better in the metal than the preview photos are portraying it.
It wasn't headed for Funkytown by any chance? ;-)
Being driven by a funky gibbon, with his funk soul brother in the passenger seat, and listening to Funky Monks (Red Hot Chilli Peppers).
I'll get my coat
:-)
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The current model of personal car ownership has existed for over a century (owner drivers). Arguably it is just about over. Building more roads, to absorb more traffic, with more pollution is no longer socially attractive. Technology allows radical change.
Change will not happen suddenly - transition may take 20 years. A possible future to make best use of road space, parking, maximise the use of investment in transport etc.
- all electric vehicles including autonomous in 3-7 years
- separate regulations for "city" cars - eg: 750kg, range 100m, speed 50mph
- city cars available at rail stations (a bit like scooters)
- ability to summon a car with an app
Most cars sit idle for 23 hours a day. Car sharing makes far better use of that investment.
Whether the current change in regulations is part of initiating such a strategy I doubt, although that may be the effect. Political concerns extend only to the next election.
Car companies are quite capable of lobbying government in their own interests. They are very aware that unless cars continually "improve" sales will stagnate, and rarely make any money on small basic models which are most price sensitive.
Generalisations:
- for those over 60 the change may be difficult to accept having grown up in the age of aspiring universal car ownership.
- for those under 20 it will simply be the status quo - they will know no different.
- for urban dwellers it will generally make very little difference to lifestyles - may even be improved with reduced concerns over parking and congestion.
That many other than the relatively prosperous will be unable to enjoy new large personal transport is reality. Just as private healthcare, private education, Caribbean holidays, 5-bedroom houses are the preserve of the well off. Get used to it!
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Change will not happen suddenly - transition may take 20 years. A possible future to make best use of road space, parking, maximise the use of investment in transport etc.
Now who's dreaming, might be a good idea to build some nuclear power stations to generate all the electricity we will need, worry about the rest when thats sorted.....
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If the will is there, there is no reason not to dream of an electrical future.
Just wind energy has grown since 2008 from 1.5% to 22.0% of UK electricity output. The potential has barely been tapped.
Nuclear build needs to be stepped up - too much nimby and not enough action.
Leaving aside climate change issues, the real dream or fantasy is that somehow fossil fuels are going to continue to be available at an affordable price in 20+ years' time.
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Just wind energy has grown since 2008 from 1.5% to 22.0% of UK electricity output. The potential has barely been tapped.
I don`t understand why we are not making wind turbine islands in the sea as others are doing, though I am not surprised Solar isn`t as popular it takes up too much room and not much electricity
Nuclear build needs to be stepped up - too much nimby and not enough action.
Thats been the way for years now, but private companies are now looking into it in USA, Tesla are installing or have installed thousands of chargers with power wall backup, charged from solar, though as Elon mentioned- nuclear by some companies should be invested in very soon in all countries
I can see that happening here in the next few years if EV manufacturers want to sell here in high numbers apart from price, as it should give better piece of mind to those worried about range as confidence in the grid is not that high regardless of what the maths say
Fossil fuels will be needed for a long time until alternatives are researched
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I agree Bolt. Terry, I think (as usual) is at best overly optimisitic about the pace of change and viability of new tech.
I also see in some comments (reading between the lines) a rather worrying trend that appears to want the ICE car driving Pleb bloc pushed out permanently, not for 'environmental reasons', but so that the roads away from the major built-up areas can be 'reclaimed' by the well-off, taking life back to what it was 100+ years ago in relative terms.
I wonder how many of those advocating the rapid change to EV only, autonymous pod travel for the Plebs would also be the ones against any type of wind turbine, solar farm (less so, given I'm sure they can still source their expensive food from wherever, unlike the rest of us) and especially nuclear power plant (large or small) near their residence.
I would also note that autonuymous cars were promised 'within the next 5 years' so many times over the last decade, and yet they can barely manage a clear sunny day on a Californian highway, let alone a wet, dark, busy rush hour in a British town/city or driving down a country lane with few passing places, little signage and farm vehicles/livestock and locals on foot etc to deal with.
The low number of serious accidents/deaths from trial Autonymous EVs are mainly because those testing them are specifically trained for them, not some bloke who thinks the car is K.I.T.T. and can have a kip, read the newspaper or eat their lunch whilst the car does all the work.
Given the poor quality of driving these days (especially as regards paying attention and not doing non-driving stuff whilst on the move [at least most do so when stopped]), I'm not holding out much hope for aEVs being 'successful' if rolled out to the masses any time soon.
As I meantioned before in another thread, it's also odd how many touting said tech are seemingly on the side of the rail unions who mistakenly say that self-driving trains are inherrantly unsafe, despite their work environment / remit being significantly more limited, controlled and many orders of magnitude safer than road transport.
I agree that a big dose of realism needs to be given to the great and the good, who, despite them pretending on a regular basis, aren't pushing any of this for the betterment of the human race, or, for that matter the planet, but to gain more wealth and power.
When a new £60k camper van that should be costing £20k is touted as 'great' and 'for families', you have to wonder at who's behind all the PR.
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When a new £60k camper van that should be costing £20k is touted as 'great' and 'for families', you have to wonder at who's behind all the PR.
That (just under) £60k version isn't a camper Andy, just an MPV type thing. You want a camper, it will probably be an extra £20k+............
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I would also note that autonuymous cars were promised 'within the next 5 years' so many times over the last decade, and yet they can barely manage a clear sunny day on a Californian highway, let alone a wet, dark, busy rush hour in a British town/city or driving down a country lane with few passing places, little signage and farm vehicles/livestock and locals on foot etc to deal with.
They were promised around year 2000 but many companies went bust as I recall? experimenting with the idea.
Tesla and Alphabet/Google were the only real serious players with autonomy afaia, though Apple are meant to be joining in the research project as they designed a car
Elon has had a super computer chip designed and built to Tesla spec, which is going to teach the autonomous computers how to drive cars and has a department that programs the SCC (long way about doing it But much faster programming of autonomous chips he said) anyone can find out about it on You tube makes interesting viewing...
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When a new £60k camper van that should be costing £20k is touted as 'great' and 'for families', you have to wonder at who's behind all the PR.
I expect VW will be behind the PR seeing as it's a VW car...who else would?
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I wonder how many of those advocating the rapid change to EV only, autonymous pod travel for the Plebs would also be the ones against any type of wind turbine, solar farm (less so, given I'm sure they can still source their expensive food from wherever, unlike the rest of us)
I'm curious, is there a supermarket for rich people? Do they get their food from secret, closely guarded locations?
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Fortnum & Mason?
Very good sir!! Made me smile...
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I wonder how many of those advocating the rapid change to EV only, autonymous pod travel for the Plebs would also be the ones against any type of wind turbine, solar farm (less so, given I'm sure they can still source their expensive food from wherever, unlike the rest of us)
I'm curious, is there a supermarket for rich people? Do they get their food from secret, closely guarded locations?
Properly rich people don't 'use' a supermarket - they have minions to 'source' and 'prepare' their meals.
Well-off people (at least these days) probably buy a decent amount of their food online and have it delivered. No supermarket needed for the most part, just a warehouse, picking and delivery people. Occasionally they pop in for last-minute stuff that can't be delivered in time for their needs.
I'd bet if it weren't for the newspapers, many well-off people wouldn't have noticed that there is a (artificially made-up) cost of living crisis going on at the moment. There's a reason why shops for the very well-heeled don't have price tags on the products displayed - the people buying them don't care how much they cost.
Seems as though cars are going the same way, given how much new camper vans now cost compared to 40+ years ago. Well, at least I own a bicycle.
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I wonder how many of those advocating the rapid change to EV only, autonymous pod travel for the Plebs would also be the ones against any type of wind turbine, solar farm (less so, given I'm sure they can still source their expensive food from wherever, unlike the rest of us)
I'm curious, is there a supermarket for rich people? Do they get their food from secret, closely guarded locations?
Properly rich people don't 'use' a supermarket - they have minions to 'source' and 'prepare' their meals.
Well-off people (at least these days) probably buy a decent amount of their food online and have it delivered. No supermarket needed for the most part, just a warehouse, picking and delivery people. Occasionally they pop in for last-minute stuff that can't be delivered in time for their needs.
I'd bet if it weren't for the newspapers, many well-off people wouldn't have noticed that there is a (artificially made-up) cost of living crisis going on at the moment. There's a reason why shops for the very well-heeled don't have price tags on the products displayed - the people buying them don't care how much they cost.
Seems as though cars are going the same way, given how much new camper vans now cost compared to 40+ years ago. Well, at least I own a bicycle.
It's hardly a sign of being rich to have food delivered these days - somewhere like Iceland does free delivery if you pay over £30 and it's hardy anywhere you would likely find your 'well off' people.
I know you don't like the idea, but most people don't care how much a car costs - it's the monthly payment that matters not the cost of the car.
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I wonder how many of those advocating the rapid change to EV only, autonymous pod travel for the Plebs would also be the ones against any type of wind turbine, solar farm (less so, given I'm sure they can still source their expensive food from wherever, unlike the rest of us)
I'm curious, is there a supermarket for rich people? Do they get their food from secret, closely guarded locations?
Properly rich people don't 'use' a supermarket - they have minions to 'source' and 'prepare' their meals.
Well-off people (at least these days) probably buy a decent amount of their food online and have it delivered. No supermarket needed for the most part, just a warehouse, picking and delivery people. Occasionally they pop in for last-minute stuff that can't be delivered in time for their needs.
I'd bet if it weren't for the newspapers, many well-off people wouldn't have noticed that there is a (artificially made-up) cost of living crisis going on at the moment. There's a reason why shops for the very well-heeled don't have price tags on the products displayed - the people buying them don't care how much they cost.
Seems as though cars are going the same way, given how much new camper vans now cost compared to 40+ years ago. Well, at least I own a bicycle.
It's hardly a sign of being rich to have food delivered these days - somewhere like Iceland does free delivery if you pay over £30 and it's hardy anywhere you would likely find your 'well off' people.
I know you don't like the idea, but most people don't care how much a car costs - it's the monthly payment that matters not the cost of the car.
A lot of people can't afford to buy cars on credit, let alone a new one.That's why the buy older secondhand cars and run them into the ground, not new/nearly new and keep changing them every 2-4 years despite them still being in decent condition.
The so-called 'affordable' monthly payments are certainly not for a large percentage of the population, and thus if all new cars are that expensive, they can't afford them. A £15k (when new) car will cost vastly less to buy when it's 7 years old than a £60k (when new) one, plus the maintenance and other ongoing costs will be much lower.
Also no good if this supposed potential 'poor EV owner' has no home access to a charger (and never will), doesn't have one at work (most people don't have a parking space at their workplace) and, if we all changed to EVs, wouldn't have a guaranteed spot to recharge (and enough) in a public spot, which also could encourage vandals given the car is away from their workplace.
My point is that for probably several decades, EVs will only be the preserve of the well-off, and yet everyone's taxes are subsidising those purchases when they are already affordable for those buying them and those at the bottom will have their cars effectively priced off the road within 10 years or so. What 'social justice' that is.
The reason why many single people such as myself don't get groceries delievered is that my weekly shop doesn't get anywhere near £30 most of the time, even now.
I don't go hungry, but I am frugal in my spending - I only buy in bulk when decent offers are on, which isn't every week (far from it), and note that the best prices aren't all in the same shop either, which reduces (quite a bit) further the likelihood of getting 'free' delivery.
It's easy when you don't have to worry about your bills and the price of goods.
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My point is that for probably several decades, EVs will only be the preserve of the well-off, and yet everyone's taxes are subsidising those purchases when they are already affordable for those buying them and those at the bottom will have their cars effectively priced off the road within 10 years or so. What 'social justice' that is.
The reason why many single people such as myself don't get groceries delievered is that my weekly shop doesn't get anywhere near £30 most of the time, even now.
I don't go hungry, but I am frugal in my spending - I only buy in bulk when decent offers are on, which isn't every week (far from it), and note that the best prices aren't all in the same shop either, which reduces (quite a bit) further the likelihood of getting 'free' delivery.
It's easy when you don't have to worry about your bills and the price of goods.
At the moment EVs are for people that are better off - that is to be expected as they are new tech and companies need to recoup the money they are investing in them. As the technology matures costs will comes down. No different to how any new products are when they first arrive in the market...and no different from when the first ICE vehicles existed. The UK has or is getting rid of the direct purchase subsidies on EVs now. There is a need to invest in the charging infrastructure - if you don't have the government invest then it will take longer...and there is a need to get away from fossil fuels so i think that is something that needs to be done. Having better air quality in the future and more sustainable fuels surely is social justice?
Regarding how you buy your food - you were making out that only rich people buy food online - it may not work out for you but plenty of people that are not rich will get their food delivered after ordering online - a family will easily spend £30 or more a week. I don't understand why you think you need to be rich to shop for food online.
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and there is a need to get away from fossil fuels so i think that is something that needs to be done.
We will still need crude oil for other things and its also getting a boring mantra keeping on about getting away from fossil fuels, we have to change or update our way of travel anyway, as the oil is running out, not just because its cleaner (so they say) if you check out the minerals involved and the treatment the minerals get to make batteries it doesn`t seem that clean -or the recycling process which afaia there is only one company recycling car batteries and not in UK- please correct if wrong?
During our heatwave reminded me of our need to separate our groundwater drains from the Sewer as most drains absolutely wreaked to high heaven, no one mentioned that little problem, and dont say it doesn`t affect our health as it must do, so its not just cars that have to change fuel to clean up the air, maybe we should also consider making changes that were mentioned years ago and never got around to
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My point is that for probably several decades, EVs will only be the preserve of the well-off, and yet everyone's taxes are subsidising those purchases when they are already affordable for those buying them and those at the bottom will have their cars effectively priced off the road within 10 years or so. What 'social justice' that is.
The reason why many single people such as myself don't get groceries delievered is that my weekly shop doesn't get anywhere near £30 most of the time, even now.
I don't go hungry, but I am frugal in my spending - I only buy in bulk when decent offers are on, which isn't every week (far from it), and note that the best prices aren't all in the same shop either, which reduces (quite a bit) further the likelihood of getting 'free' delivery.
It's easy when you don't have to worry about your bills and the price of goods.
At the moment EVs are for people that are better off - that is to be expected as they are new tech and companies need to recoup the money they are investing in them. As the technology matures costs will comes down. No different to how any new products are when they first arrive in the market...and no different from when the first ICE vehicles existed. The UK has or is getting rid of the direct purchase subsidies on EVs now. There is a need to invest in the charging infrastructure - if you don't have the government invest then it will take longer...and there is a need to get away from fossil fuels so i think that is something that needs to be done. Having better air quality in the future and more sustainable fuels surely is social justice?
But the well-off pay far less as a percetage of their disposable income for the 'priviledge', even more so when EV subsidies are factored in. And I don't recall any EV firm getting any money from our government or any other of note either. Battery tech has been in development for decades because of its use in other mdoern electronics. EV and car firms just buy it in like Bosch clutchs or Hella lights.
EVs are essentially the same as PC 'manufacturers - they make fancy casings/facia and buttons and buy in 99% of the components from third parties. The only real 'R&D' they do is make sure they all fit and work well together.
Regarding how you buy your food - you were making out that only rich people buy food online - it may not work out for you but plenty of people that are not rich will get their food delivered after ordering online - a family will easily spend £30 or more a week. I don't understand why you think you need to be rich to shop for food online.
Many less well off people and families can't afford to just shop in one shop - they shop around to find the best bargains in a variety of nearby supermakets.
Many also do not have the spare time to just 'hang around' at home waiting for deliveries (because of working long/odd hours [not from home as many well-off 'professionals now do] and have more extensive family commitments that mean they shop when they either can find a spare moment and/or need to, e.g. when they get home.
My general point is that almost every recent change to 'benefit the planet' seems to further enrich the well-off and cost the less well-off. Hardly 'social justice' if the effect is just forcing the less well-off back to living standards of 100+ years ago and having no means to change things because all major political parties, media outlets, 'charities''/lobby groups and big business are in cahoots. It's easy virtue-signalling when you will (at present) won't be affected materially that much.
I would also point out that the extent of man-made climate change (like other issues in the news over the past 2 years or so) is increasing being (successfully) challenged by more and more professionals because they see the nasty authoritarian agenda behind them as well as the public starting to trust their profession's opinion less and less as each set of 'facts' are demolished.
What WILL be interesting will be if and when the rules that are impoverishing the less well off then are extended and hit those further up. Somehow I'd bet good money on many proponents of the 'green' agenda here and elsewhere suddenly changing their tune: "First, they came for...."
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We have been advised not to dismiss posts as absolute twaddle so I will simply make a contribution for the record saying that your opinions on man-made climate change are not in agreement with mine. It is becoming more and more apparent every year that the world's climate is in a steep downward spiral, the likes of which have never been seen before and coincide with the burning of fossil fuels by mankind.
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We have been advised not to dismiss posts as absolute twaddle so I will simply make a contribution for the record saying that your opinions on man-made climate change are not in agreement with mine. It is becoming more and more apparent every year that the world's climate is in a steep downward spiral, the likes of which have never been seen before and coincide with the burning of fossil fuels by mankind.
Could be because we were ignorant of how the earth worked and had no idea what was going on. And probably put down to religious reasons
There has also been no mention of the amount of volcanic eruptions going on around the world underwater as well as above which presumeably has no effect on the earth according to some. So it is all our fault. have we gotton that powerful ....???
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We have been advised not to dismiss posts as absolute twaddle so I will simply make a contribution for the record saying that your opinions on man-made climate change are not in agreement with mine. It is becoming more and more apparent every year that the world's climate is in a steep downward spiral, the likes of which have never been seen before and coincide with the burning of fossil fuels by mankind.
Could be because we were ignorant of how the earth worked and had no idea what was going on. And probably put down to religious reasons
There has also been no mention of the amount of volcanic eruptions going on around the world underwater as well as above which presumeably has no effect on the earth according to some. So it is all our fault. have we gotton that powerful ....???
Climate is a balance - and yes, humans have started having an affect on that. There has always been and always will be a varience in the climate but what we have now is made a lot worse by humans.
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We have been advised not to dismiss posts as absolute twaddle so I will simply make a contribution for the record saying that your opinions on man-made climate change are not in agreement with mine. It is becoming more and more apparent every year that the world's climate is in a steep downward spiral, the likes of which have never been seen before and coincide with the burning of fossil fuels by mankind.
Oddly enough, more and more (respected) scientists are calling out the 'climate change emergency' as bunk based on politicised bad science and lies. I think it (like with COVID) is because they fear being on the wrong side of the argument when the proverbial balloon goes up as regards the agenda behind the narrative.
I've never said that man-made pollutants are having an effect, just far less of one in terms of climate change than we're being told.
Far more of a problem to mankind and every other living organism are the dissemination of things like heavy metals, microplastics and high levels of hormones and artifical chemicals into the environment via various means that end up in the food chain and destroying / drastically altering life from the inside out.
'Climate change' didn't cause the huge increase in cancers, auto-immune, neurological and other diseases as well as woefully low fertility rates in the West (accounting for non-medical factors) that miraculously sprang up well after the start of general industrialisation but after the chemical and pharmacutical industry played a huge part in society.
In addition, a significant amount of problems supposedly associated with the 'climate change emergency' are mainly due to overpopulation (driven by migration) and urbanisation of the countryside / flood plains. Places/regions flood because there's far less land (in the right places) to soak up rainfall and more and more ground water is used, meaning run-off is far worse. Not helped by local drainage not being upgraded to cope for the best part of 100 years, often much more.
No amount of EVs will make this situation any better. Given that even now most of the world's pollution comes from China and India, with more and more developing nations ramping up, how is impoverishing most Brits (and other Westerners) whilst transferring wealth into the hands of the already well off to make maybe a 1-5% dent in carbon emissions (which will be gobbled up by developing nations in under a couple of years) going to help matters?
Sure, the roads will be empty so the wealthy can drive to their second homes, day trips out and posh holiday rents in peace without us pesky Plebs 'clogging up' the roads, but it won't be good for the rest of us, will it?
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Seems as though cars are going the same way, given how much new camper vans now cost compared to 40+ years ago. Well, at least I own a bicycle.
Its very early years for EVs assuming all cars are going to use all batteries, lots of research going on even using combustion engines to keep motors going, thats without R&D into HGV units which are coming on well, as batteries improve which Tesla and BYD are the most advanced
I have doubts all cars will be battery fuelled as I do not think (not that we will find out until its too late) the grid imo will be able to cope, I think its highly overrated, which the same goes for our generation system, we need more new nuclear power stations
then we will have new power cables installed all over the country to cope with demand, doesn`t the future look green (or blue) as most is electric should have been called blue not green lol.
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we will have new power cables installed all over the country to cope with demand, doesn`t the future look green (or blue) as most is electric should have been called blue not green lol.
That reminds me of VW's range of blue motion cars.
Always felt there was more than a whiff of brown motion about them!
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The ID4 is £46K, the ID5 £52K and the Buzz £57K, each with the 77 kwh battery pack. You choose the style you want and pay accordingly.
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I have doubts all cars will be battery fuelled as I do not think (not that we will find out until its too late) the grid imo will be able to cope, I think its highly overrated, which the same goes for our generation system, we need more new nuclear power stations
w w w.yetmorespam .com
w w w.evenmorespam .net
Oh look, a spam post from 'saddihum' after that vague post ealier. Imagine my shock.
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Monty python,
Spamalot ??
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