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Economy question - Lrac

I think like most people that if you put your foot down you use more fuel BUT If I travelled say 70 miles on a motorway in 1 hour at 70 mph would I actually use more fuel than if I travelled 70 miles in 2 hours at 35mph?

I would by cruising in top gear at 70 and assume the fuel ratio would always be optimized by oxygen sensors unlike carbs of yester year.

Obviously, there are many other factors that can be considered but I think we are all savvy enough for me not to have to list them here such as bursts of acceleration etc

Is it always a given that the faster you travel the more fuel you will use in relation to the distance that you travel?

I haven't a clue so just putting it out there

Economy question - bathtub tom

The faster you travel, the greater the wind resistance. Have you never ridden a bike?

Economy question - badbusdriver

Assuming you were using the correct gear, you would use less fuel at 35mph. Wind resistance y'see!.

I remember years ago (1980's) reading about a Daihatsu Charade 1.0 turbo diesel managing over 100mpg on an economy trial (average economy in normal circumstances would probably be 60-65mpg). Turned out, the average speed during the trial was around 30-35mph.

Economy question - movilogo

The most fuel efficient way to travel on motorways is to follow lorry and set cruise control. It will mostly travel at 65 MPH and no need for sudden acceleration and braking while trying to overtake other vehicles.

If I drive at 35 MPH on motorway I shall die out of boredom.

Economy question - RT

The most fuel efficient way to travel on motorways is to follow lorry and set cruise control. It will mostly travel at 65 MPH and no need for sudden acceleration and braking while trying to overtake other vehicles.

If I drive at 35 MPH on motorway I shall die out of boredom.

HGVs are legally limited to 60 mph on motorways and physically limited to 56 mph by their EU limiter

Economy question - Adampr

The most fuel efficient way to travel on motorways is to follow lorry and set cruise control. It will mostly travel at 65 MPH and no need for sudden acceleration and braking while trying to overtake other vehicles.

If I drive at 35 MPH on motorway I shall die out of boredom.

HGVs are legally limited to 60 mph on motorways and physically limited to 56 mph by their EU limiter

All HGVs are limited to 0.01mph more than the one they're trying to overtake.

Economy question - kiss (keep it simple)

All cars will have a speed where it delivers optimum economy. That speed will depend on the car and many other variables.

Economy question - RT

All cars will have a speed where it delivers optimum economy. That speed will depend on the car and many other variables.

That depends how you measure "optimum" - as going slower than that speed will give better mpg.

Economy question - kiss (keep it simple)

I am treating optimum economy and best mpg as the same thing. The engine won't be running at its most efficient at the speed which delivers the best mpg, but it doesn't have to overcome as much air resistance, so it will use less fuel than going faster. At 100mph the engine will be running at a much higher thermal efficiency, but most of that effort will be to overcome air resistance, hence greater fuel consumption. A large container ship needs the engine that is optimised to propel that ship at a certain speed, and if you get it wrong, the fuel consumption will be higher. Electric cars don't suffer these thermal losses so they are very efficient in slow traffic, where air resistance is negligible.

Economy question - Engineer Andy

All cars will have a speed where it delivers optimum economy. That speed will depend on the car and many other variables.

That depends how you measure "optimum" - as going slower than that speed will give better mpg.

It depends on the gearing of each gear, the weight and aerodynamics of the car, tyres and the inate efficiency of the engine.

Economy question - movilogo

HGVs are legally limited to 60 mph on motorways

Yes, but in most cars when speedo showing 65 MPH it is doing 60 in reality.

In my car when speed shows 65 MPH, the GPS speed is shown as 59-60 only.

Economy question - mcb100
Aerodynamic drag squares as speed doubles, so if your car produces 10 units of resistance at 35mph, it won’t produce 20 units at 70mph but 100 resistance units.
Going quickly is pretty labour intensive.
Economy question - RT
Aerodynamic drag squares as speed doubles, so if your car produces 10 units of resistance at 35mph, it won’t produce 20 units at 70mph but 100 resistance units. Going quickly is pretty labour intensive.

That arithmetic isn't correct - 10 units of aerodynamic resistance at 35 mph will become 40 units at 70 mph - it's the speed increase squared.

Economy question - Andrew-T

In essence you might think that moving a given mass from A to B might require the same amount of energy, whatever the speed. Above a certain speed, however, rolling and wind resistance have an increasing counter-effect. Plus the fact that the optimum energy is extracted from the fuel near the top of the engine's torque curve, which for a typical petrol engine is about 3000rpm, or 2000 for a diesel.

The combination of those factors explains why there is a 'best' cruising speed for any vehicle.

Economy question - Bromptonaut

Above a certain speed, however, rolling and wind resistance have an increasing counter-effect. Plus the fact that the optimum energy is extracted from the fuel near the top of the engine's torque curve, which for a typical petrol engine is about 3000rpm, or 2000 for a diesel.

Wind resistance squaring is a law of physics; unavoidable.

Below about 50 other variables like torque, fuel type and gearing can equal the physics. Above that no.

We tow a 1200kg caravan with a HDi 1.6/115PS Berlingo. The 'van has a mildly aerodynamic front but a bluff vertical rear demonstrates this amply; there's a reason lots of well designed cars (and trains) have streamlined rears. At 50 in still air we might just get 35mpg. Push it in a French motorway where, with Gross Train Weight under 3.5 tonnes, we're subject the normal 110/130 at 110 and we're in the low twenties mpg wise.

Winds are like on a push bike; usually an againsterly.

My 1.2 petrol Fabia's consumption figure scooted up smartly in the long 50 limits for M/way upgrades. Much less so since the limit was raised to 60.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 01/09/2022 at 23:45

Economy question - veloceman
I have often wondered about this. You would save fuel as the engine is far more efficient at lower speeds however bear in mind that most other components like the heater, wipers, electrical system etc will be in operating for twice as long therefore wear out more quickly?
Economy question - thunderbird

My 1.2 petrol Fabia's consumption figure scooted up smartly in the long 50 limits for M/way upgrades. Much less so since the limit was raised to 60.

Back about 10 years 14 miles of the wifes 20 mile each way commute was on the motorway at 70 mph (she went before it got busy and came home mid afternoon before it was again busy). Then there was 2 years of works with a 50 mph limit to turn it into "smart motorway". The mpg of the diesel Focus went up 10% and considering only about 1/2 of her mileage was the commute it showed how dropping 20 mph really helped save fuel.

But she was bored to death and as soon as the works were complete back to 70 mph but since she retired soon after no idea if the mpg went back down.

Edited by thunderbird on 02/09/2022 at 08:00

Economy question - Terry W

Aerodynamics are the fundamental reason why travelling slower uses less fuel, but this is not a linear function due to the impacts of:

  • rolling resistance,
  • engine efficiency which varies with rpm
  • gearing - slower speed = lower gear = greater RPM
  • ancillaries - lights, wipers, aircon etc need to work for longer

I suspect the optimum constant speed on the flat is near to the slowest speed that can be attained in the highest gear. My car (petrol, auto) gives maximum torque at 1750 rpm which is ~60mph in 8th gear. With a manual it may be able to hold 50mph in 8th if careful.

Economy question - Andrew-T

One certainty is that driving at the lowest possible rpm (highest gear) may not be the best idea. I know of some drivers with a diesel engine who change up at about 1800, before peak torque. To my ear the engine doesn't sound ideally happy doing that.

Economy question - RT

One certainty is that driving at the lowest possible rpm (highest gear) may not be the best idea. I know of some drivers with a diesel engine who change up at about 1800, before peak torque. To my ear the engine doesn't sound ideally happy doing that.

Depends on the engine size - most modern turbo-diesels will pull happily from idle speed upwards

Economy question - Andrew-T

<< most modern turbo-diesels will pull happily from idle speed upwards >>

Yes, they will, but that won't be the best way to drive them.

Economy question - galileo

<< most modern turbo-diesels will pull happily from idle speed upwards >>

Yes, they will, but that won't be the best way to drive them.

Driver Technique and Operating Practices: As a general rule, a 1 mph increase in road speed equals a 0.1 mpg increase in fuel consumption. This means that increasing road speed from 50 to 60 mph will result in a loss of 1 mpg.

This is a quote from a very detailed guide to fuel economy, which can be found at the link below.

www.cummins.com/engine-applications/heavy-duty-tru...y

Although mainly for LGV users the factors analysed will apply to any other turbo diesels and most will also apply to petrol vehicles.

Economy question - Terry W

It would clearly be wrong to unduly stress an engine - but on level ground and a constant speed most modern motors will be unstressed and smooth at 1600-1800 rpm on a very light throttle. For a mid size petrol hatch 60mph = 1800-2100rpm.

Economy question - Manatee

Peak torque itself of course also requires WOT (wide open throttle) so it isn't quite as straightforward as keeping it around peak torque rpm. You will rarely need that much power and probably not at all if you are going for best economy, the only potential opportunity being to use it in the acceleration phase. If a turbo is fitted it must get even more complicated - I suspect keeping that around peak torque rpm is probably a good idea as it will bring the turbo into the equation, and provided the temptation to use wasteful amounts of power is resisted.

In general a light throttle, minimising the wasteful use of brakes, higher rather than lower gears, and very moderate speed will yield a decent mpg.

Happy to report that on our recent trip to Austria via France and Germany, we have averaged nearly 50mpg in a 1.5 litre (manual and un-turboed) Mazda MX-5. I'm pretty light on the brakes but other than that very free use was made of the upper rpm range on some very nice roads. Austria is not noticeably flat.

Economy question - bathtub tom

Anyone else here driving during the second Suez crisis (1970s)? There was a 50 or 60 limit on motorways and fuel economy improved no end for a slight increase in journey time.

Nowadays, passing through miles of roadworks on motorways with a 60 limit, you only need to look at the economy on the on-board display to see the iimprovement.

Economy question - Big John

Anyone else here driving during the second Suez crisis (1970s)? There was a 50 or 60 limit on motorways and fuel economy improved no end for a slight increase in journey time.

Nowadays, passing through miles of roadworks on motorways with a 60 limit, you only need to look at the economy on the on-board display to see the iimprovement.

In the 70s most cars would have been revving a lot at motorway speeds - these days most cars are very low revved at speed and have a low drag coefficient. I remember my Dad's mkII Cortina drank like George Best if you managed to get up to motorway speeds. My current 1.4 Superb does about 2000rpm @60mph in sixth so is at the lower end of the peak torque band (1500 to 4500rpm) at motorway speeds so economy is good for a large petrol bus, 50mpg+ at a steady-ish 70mph. It's only marginally better at slower speed 50mph roadwork sections - that might be because it's revving at the bottom of the torque band at these speeds.

The Superb economy is hit up steep hills or around town - that's where the bulk of the car affects it more.

Edited by Big John on 03/09/2022 at 19:58