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Unless it's a full electric, how can it not have a gearbox?
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It’s very clever, and here’s someone who can explain it better than me.
youtu.be/-P_VChtMGK8
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Would you also lose interest in Golf, Astra, Mazda3, etc because they don’t offer Magic Seats?
The competition never had magic seats (though they would certainly be better with them). But if changes were made to any of them which resulted in them being less good than previous versions, I also wouldn't want one.
But the Civic did have them, Honda in their genius came up with this great idea to increase the practicality and flexibility of the Jazz, Civic (9th gen) along with various other models not sold here. But motoring journalists complained loudly that they couldn't lower the drivers seat enough to feel sporty ('cause, y'know, that's what is important). In order to pander to them, Honda did away with the magic seats because with the fuel tank under the font seats, it just wasn't possible to get them close enough to the floor to appease the journo's. The result is that in order to please the tiny minority for whom getting this important, the car is less practical and less flexible than the 9th gen car.
Maybe the problem is that I am more interested in good design and practicality than image and how connected to the car I feel while thrashing it along country road (and I'd prefer to sit a bit higher anyway). So it annoys me greatly when a manufacturer takes (IMO) a backward step like this.
Another (more extreme) example for me is the Mercedes A Class. While admittedly flawed in more ways than one, the original 'A' was absolute genius in its packaging. Second gen was kind of a halfway house, being less well packaged and practical than the original, but still odd looking to buyers. But then the third gen onwards just became an utterly conventional small hatchback (and no better than most rivals other than the supposed prestige of the badge, and the bragging rights of having the most powerful hot hatch). I feel if Merc had stuck with the original format, but sorted the flaws, maybe got various celebs driving/endorcing them, the public in general would have come around to its 'oddness'.
‘ But, just point out, Honda have been using 'stepped' CVT's for years now.’
They have indeed. But this one hasn’t got a CVT, or any gearbox at all. It really is a huge improvement over CR-V and HR-V Hybrids which can emit a lot of noise relative to the acceleration offered.
The point is that the 'elastic band effect' is not really an issue on stepped CVT's, so it wasn't a problem which needed fixed. Motoring journo's amongst others (including some forum members) complain about revs and noise levels. Re the first part, the vast majority of cars using a CVT have a n/a petrol engine, which has its peak power and torque up at the top of the rev range (especially so in the case of our Jazz, 6k and 5k rpm respectively), so obviously putting your foot down will result in high revs, what else would you expect?. Re the second point, if a car is excessively noisy it is because it has less noise insulation, not because of the transmission type.
Edited by badbusdriver on 27/08/2022 at 10:44
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One of the major downsides to this new car will almost certainly be the very hefty price tag.
In my view, the problems Honda have been suffering from over the last 5 years are that their cars have not been what their traditional client based want, not helped by the (IMHO) lower reliability of the small capacity turbocharged engines compared to the previous generations of n/a VTEC engines, and then the high prices and poor styling/ergonomics get lumped on top.
Even if the new Civic is an improvement on the previous generation, to regain customers back to that from the early - mid 2000s this car (and the rest of the [now very limited] range) would have to be spectactular to say the least. It sounds like the car is fine, but nothing more. Certainly nothing to stand head and shoulders above the competition.
The other major problem with the Civic has been the sheer size of the car - all intents and purposes its the same size as the Mondeo or the Accord was 20 years ago, the former a car that now sells in small numbers relative to 20+ years ago and the latter not sold in the UK any more. Combined with a 'base model' RRP of around £30k, this is hardly going to temp great numbers of buyers at a time when money is VERY tight.
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It really is a huge improvement over CR-V and HR-V Hybrids which can emit a lot of noise relative to the acceleration offered.
We've had our CR-V hybrid for three years and are very happy with it. The CR-V hybrid is quite different to the HR-V, the latter is less powerful with only a 1.5 engine as compared to the 2.0 of the CR-V. As a daily driver, with stepless transmission and a smooth engine it's very relaxing to drive. It's very quick from takeoff and surprisingly quick in sport mode. It's good enough for us to seriously consider buying it as a longer term proposition at the end of the lease, and keeping it until the whole alternative fuel debate sorts itself out.
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It does look good in the blue - there’s currently one outside my house. ‘ Until such times as Honda stop pandering to motoring journalists and bring back the magic rear seats, I have no interest in the Civic!.’ Would you also lose interest in Golf, Astra, Mazda3, etc because they don’t offer Magic Seats? ‘ But, just point out, Honda have been using 'stepped' CVT's for years now.’ They have indeed. But this one hasn’t got a CVT, or any gearbox at all. It really is a huge improvement over CR-V and HR-V Hybrids which can emit a lot of noise relative to the acceleration offered.
As the car appears to be 'nothing special', other makes that do offer something that stands them apart - whether that is styling, handling, performance and/or value for money (comparatively speaking), it means that the new Civic has a big hill to climb to be able to stand out from the crowd.
It's true that potential buyers won't be aghast at the lack of the famed magic seats, but then that, along with high reliability / durability and engine performance was what set Honda apart from many other makes in days gone by. Unfortunately those 'good years' are long gone, and Honda will struggle to regain the lost ground and thus sales.
Not helped by a starting price tag of £30k.
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The other major problem with the Civic has been the sheer size of the car - all intents and purposes its the same size as the Mondeo or the Accord was 20 years ago
Rightly or wrongly (wrongly IMO), that is par for the course, todays Polo is not far from the size of a Golf from 20 years ago. But it is likely that the reason the Civic has stretched so much is to try and cover the lack of an Accord in the UK range. And while the Civic is big, it is still smaller than an Octavia and a foot shorter than a Mondeo.
Not helped by a starting price tag of £30k.
The price, well the exorbitant list prices of new cars often crops up in posts, but as I keep on saying, for the majority, this is simply not relevant. The important thing is what the deposit and monthly payments are!
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There seems an awful lot of negativity for the sake of it reading through some posts.
The price issue I totally get. Then again, there isn't a manufacturer who hasn't raised their prices dramatically over the last few years. Are they all at it?
In terms of how good it is, I've read a lot of the initial reviews and whilst not outstanding in one area, it does seem to be receiving very favourable reviews as a complete package.
I'll definitely look at it when it is time to change.
Edited by groaver on 27/08/2022 at 13:17
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It really is a good all-rounder. Economical, quick enough, good steering and handling, decent equipment levels.
The noise thing is important. A typical full hybrid, accelerating down a motorway slip road will fire up the ICE and hold it at peak torque. Unfortunately, with pseudo-Atkinson engines, they’re not the most aurally satisfying engines. The Civic, undoubtedly with increased noise suppression, gives the rise and fall of a fast acting sequential or DSG box. Definitely more pleasant to listen to. Switch it to Sport mode and you also get a surprising realistic engine note through the speakers….
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There seems an awful lot of negativity for the sake of it reading through some posts.
The price issue I totally get. Then again, there isn't a manufacturer who hasn't raised their prices dramatically over the last few years. Are they all at it?
In terms of how good it is, I've read a lot of the initial reviews and whilst not outstanding in one area, it does seem to be receiving very favourable reviews as a complete package.
I'll definitely look at it when it is time to change.
I'd say we're being realistic as to its chances. I'm not against Honda per se - to be honest, if I'd known how much car prices would be rising since I bought my Mazda3 1.6 petrol (essentially) new in early 2006, I'd have stumped up the extra £6 to buy a Civic Type R and had a smile on my face ever since.
For me, Honda's lack of innovation that has put me off and disappointed me ever since. Belatedly going the 'TSI' petrol route and seemingly not doing a great job of it, poor on the styling, other cars and their hybrids/EV work barely progressing. Not the sign of a healthy company, especially on the design side.
They were amongst the leads of the pack 20 years ago, now they are just also-rans, overtaken by rivals from Europe and especially South Korea. Car manufacturers need a USP to get the sales going, and frankly Honda haven't had one for 15 years. That is something I feel sad about.
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The other major problem with the Civic has been the sheer size of the car - all intents and purposes its the same size as the Mondeo or the Accord was 20 years ago
Rightly or wrongly (wrongly IMO), that is par for the course, todays Polo is not far from the size of a Golf from 20 years ago. But it is likely that the reason the Civic has stretched so much is to try and cover the lack of an Accord in the UK range. And while the Civic is big, it is still smaller than an Octavia and a foot shorter than a Mondeo.
Not helped by a starting price tag of £30k.
The price, well the exorbitant list prices of new cars often crops up in posts, but as I keep on saying, for the majority, this is simply not relevant. The important thing is what the deposit and monthly payments are!
The gradual increase in car size has been going on forever - just compare any modern car with an original Ford Cortina, Vauxhall Cavalier, etc - that's why new entry-level models keep being introduced below the previous smallest model.
You may think that monthly payments are the be all and end all - the industry loves you but many of us don't use credit to buy cars so price is everything.
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You may think that monthly payments are the be all and end all - the industry loves you but many of us don't use credit to buy cars so price is everything.
I don't, and can assure you the industry does not love me. I do not, and would not take on a new car through some personal lease, PCP or whatever deal. Merely an observation based on what I see every day.
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The other major problem with the Civic has been the sheer size of the car - all intents and purposes its the same size as the Mondeo or the Accord was 20 years ago
Rightly or wrongly (wrongly IMO), that is par for the course, todays Polo is not far from the size of a Golf from 20 years ago. But it is likely that the reason the Civic has stretched so much is to try and cover the lack of an Accord in the UK range. And while the Civic is big, it is still smaller than an Octavia and a foot shorter than a Mondeo.
Indeed - I hadn't realised that the last version of the Mondeo had (yet again) grown in length - I was going on what my sister's car (the previous model) was. Still, it's not a Golf sized car any more.
Unfortunately the Modeo/Accord end of the market - at least for non-premium (sports/luxury/EVs) cars had dropped like a stone ove the last decade, and precisely why the Mondeo and the Accord have been dropped in the UK.
I think Honda would've done better to have cut their losses on that front and concetrated on making the Civic a new version of the model from 2001 - 2005, which was a sales hit due to its practicality and general reliability, as well as the Type R being great value for such a performance hatchback. I suspect they sold more Type Rs per year alone back then than the new Civic will sell as a total.
Not helped by a starting price tag of £30k.
The price, well the exorbitant list prices of new cars often crops up in posts, but as I keep on saying, for the majority, this is simply not relevant. The important thing is what the deposit and monthly payments are!
Presumably the monthly payment reflects the price of the new car as much as it does the likely second hand value on PCP deals.
Whilst second hand prices are very high at the moment, I'd put good money on the finance companies offering such deals pricing in a likely very deep, long recession in the coming months which would mean resale values would be much neaer or even below the historical trend.
Factor in many people not even being able to afford the deposit and/or monthly payments from the start due to inflationary and job worries, then I'd say anyone buying a car today better take car if doing so on a PCP in case the resale value doesn't cover the amount left on after 3 years.
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I like the look of it, love to have a test drive, thanks mcb for your review.
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Honda dealers are having a launch weekend 17/18th of September.
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