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Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - strowger

Hallo!

I'd like recommendations, please.

I want a family car with room for 4 adults to sit in tolerable comfort for long journeys. It doesn't need to be luxurious - in fact I'd strongly prefer not to have a "luxury" brand name on it - but there needs to be enough space for my children as they become >6ft teenagers, and for our suitcases when we go on holiday. The Hyundai Kona, for example, is not quite big enough.

Must have an automatic gearbox, adaptive cruise and steering assist.

To clarify (as there seems to be a lot of confusing terminology in use) this means that it must steer itself down the centre of the lane markings. I don't want the sort that merely makes a noise or a correcting steering input if you leave the lane, I want it to do the steering by itself. I understand this means holding onto the wheel for safety reasons etc.

Must not be Vauxhall, French, or a JLR product.

It needs to NOT be pure electric. Hybrid or plugin is OK - I was 100% decided on a Suzuki Across / Toyota RAV4, but the dizzying & ongoing rise in power costs is making me question this and wonder whether a cheaper car without the hybrid complexity might be a better idea . Please don't use this thread to start a pro/anti EV discussion.

Don't really have a budget, but I've found having expensive brands on the driveway causes all manner of extra expense and hassle over time.

Edited by strowger on 11/08/2022 at 15:45

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Ian_SW

Toyota Corolla Estate / Suzuki Swace would do the job, as would a Leon Estate. Not sure of the exact trim level they are standard in the Corolla, but both are included on my base spec Swace, and FR spec upwards Leons have both too.

In normal use, even on fairly long motorway journeys I rarely find myself using either though, setting rhe cruise control to non-adaptive and leaving lane assist off.

The lane assist does do what it's meant to very well, but it's easier to maintain proper concentration if you switch it off and do all the steering yourself. The adaptive cruise takes a bit of getting used to in medium levels of traffic as it backs off much earlier than most drivers expect. It often needs to be overridden to change lanes at a distance to the car you're overtaking without annoying the cars behind. Once the road is so busy that changing lanes is pointless it does work OK.

I don't like the lane assist in the Leon (my wife's car) at all though. It defaults to the "On" state and spends all the time grabbing at the steering wheel and trying to make you crash into oncoming cars on country roads - it seems to think you shouldn'tever drive in the left hand 2 feet of the road which is probabky correct for motorways and big A roads, but completely wrong on narrow B roads, particularly round here when a huge tractor and grain trailer is coming the other way every couple of miles at this tjme of year. Having to switch it off on every time we leave the drive via menus on the touchscreen is very annoying. The Toyota system defaults to the off state, and is switched on and off by a switch on the steering wheel ... and is much better on country roads, despite it being much easier to switch off!!

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Adampr

Electricity costs more because the fuel to generate it costs more, so I wouldn't worry too much about that aspect. Competitors for a RAV4 would be Kia Sportage, Hyundai Tucson, Ssangyong Korando or Honda CR-V. I assume all have adaptive cruise at the right trim level.

Lane keep assist is a scourge on driving. I know the Kia one defaults to on.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - _

The korando auto does all the op wants and most of the safety eleccy aids can be permanently switched off if you want.

Fuel consumption might put the op off but my manual 6 speed is ok.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - strowger

Thank you for this. I'm actually driving a rented Toyota around at the moment - sadly with the useless "make a horrible noise only" version of the lane assist - and the adaptive cruise and steering wheel controls are great. It does slow down pretty early with the following distance set to maximum, agreed.

The >50mpg number in the HJ "Real world MPG" section for the Corolla 1.8 hybrid is astonishingly good.

The warning about the VAG version is very useful. That would get my wife (or at least the vehicle) hurt and is clearly a non-starter.

"Road so busy that changing lanes is pointless" is pretty much exactly my use case.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Archie35

The warning about the VAG version is very useful. That would get my wife (or at least the vehicle) hurt and is clearly a non-starter.

I don't get this behaviour on my VAG version (a VW Tiguan, 2017). Sounds very weird, and completely different to my experience. I don't find the lane assist massively useful - it stays on all the time, but I just steer over the top of it. On the other hand, the adaptive cruise control is brilliant - one of the best new features I've come across for a long time. You can very easily adjust the distance it keeps the car from the one in front - 4 or 5 levels, if I remember correctly. I used to keep it on the shortest distance, but if anything at times that was a bit too close, so I now have it one up. If I'm in slow moving traffic I might nudge it back to the closest setting - super easy to do, with just a few flicks of the button on the steering wheel.

But to repeat, that earlier description of steering assist on country lanes is absolutely not what I experience - and I also live deep in the countryside, and 15 miles of my 70 mile commute is on narrow country lanes.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Ian_SW

The warning about the VAG version is very useful. That would get my wife (or at least the vehicle) hurt and is clearly a non-starter.

But to repeat, that earlier description of steering assist on country lanes is absolutely not what I experience - and I also live deep in the countryside, and 15 miles of my 70 mile commute is on narrow country lanes.

I should perhaps clarify my earlier description a bit - the lane assist in my wife's Leon wouldn't cause you to crash into the car coming the other way. It's just unpleasant having to fight against it the whole time to keep the car in what is the correct position on the road for that particular situation. It's also annoying that after fighting against it for a while, it goes "Bong" and pops up a patronising message saying "Drive in the centre of the lane".

It's also worth noting that it doesn't operate below 40mph, so on very narrow lanes or particularly windy roads it's not an issue as you're not driving fast enough. The problem is specifically on the kind of fairly straight but relatively narrow open B-roads we have a lot of where I live, where speed is typically between about 35 and 60mph depending on conditions visibility etc. I suspect if it activated at 50mph instead of 40 it would be a lot less intrusive, but that isn't adjustable.

All of that would be perfectly usable, if it defaulted to "Off" and could be switched on when you so want it with a button on the steering wheel. The real issue is that it has to be switched off every time you don't want it using a menu buried somewhere in the touchscreen.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Ethan Edwards

My 2017 Suzuki Vitara S Allgrip Auto 1.4 turbo had all of the ops requirements.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Archie35

The warning about the VAG version is very useful. That would get my wife (or at least the vehicle) hurt and is clearly a non-starter.

But to repeat, that earlier description of steering assist on country lanes is absolutely not what I experience - and I also live deep in the countryside, and 15 miles of my 70 mile commute is on narrow country lanes.

I should perhaps clarify my earlier description a bit - the lane assist in my wife's Leon wouldn't cause you to crash into the car coming the other way. It's just unpleasant ...

Odd... None of that applies to my particular VAG car (a Tiguan, as I said before). No fighting, no patronising messages, no bongs. It only functions at all when there are clear line markings, which are a rarity on the country roads where I live, and mostly only kicks in on a-roads and above. Even then, it's just a gentle nudge if it thinks the car is steering over a white line, but no effort whatsoever to overrule. Occasionally if I'm bored, on a quiet dual carriageway I'll have my hands hovering just off the steering wheel to see how well it keeps steering around bends, and it does it very well (till it decides my hands are off the wheel, when it'll start nagging me to resume control). All in all, it does what it says it should do, but is not a feature which I find adds any value. Whereas adaptive cruise control makes driving in many circumstances so much more relaxing.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - NAthan smith
Skoda superb estate best rear leg room of any car apart from Audi A8 LWB version. Great car I have a 68 plate sport line version great car!
Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - badbusdriver
Skoda superb estate best rear leg room of any car apart from Audi A8 LWB version. Great car I have a 68 plate sport line version great car!

The Superb estate may well be a great car, but neither it or the A8 LWB have the best rear legroom of any car. In fact they don't even have the best rear legroom within VAG.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - skidpan
The Superb estate may well be a great car, but neither it or the A8 LWB have the best rear legroom of any car. In fact they don't even have the best rear legroom within VAG.

Which does? Our current Superb and its predecessor had huge amounts of rear legroom, be interested to know which VAG cars have more.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Adampr
The Superb estate may well be a great car, but neither it or the A8 LWB have the best rear legroom of any car. In fact they don't even have the best rear legroom within VAG.

Which does? Our current Superb and its predecessor had huge amounts of rear legroom, be interested to know which VAG cars have more.

I'm not saying it's the answer, but a Seat Toledo is like an S-class in terms of leg room (and nothing else!)

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - skidpan
The Superb estate may well be a great car, but neither it or the A8 LWB have the best rear legroom of any car. In fact they don't even have the best rear legroom within VAG.

Which does? Our current Superb and its predecessor had huge amounts of rear legroom, be interested to know which VAG cars have more.

I'm not saying it's the answer, but a Seat Toledo is like an S-class in terms of leg room (and nothing else!)

The Seat Toledo (like the Skoda Rapid) is a stretched Ibiza/Fabia/Polo with a huge boot and some extra rear legroom. If you think that it is better than a Superb or an A8 LWB I suggest you go and view some cars. The extra legroom and boot space only addressed 2 of the requirements of making a family car since the interior is still pretty narrow and would never seat 3 adults in comfort.

Could not find any actual dimensions online but found a couple of photos.

www.automobiledimension.com/model/seat/toledo

www.automobiledimension.com/model/skoda/superb

Looks pretty clear that the Superb is way bigger in the back even if the pictures are from different angles.

But even if they had managed to turn a super mini into a stretched limo it would be pointless recommending either the Toledo or Rapid to the OP since neither have adaptive cruise or steering assist even as options.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Adampr
The Superb estate may well be a great car, but neither it or the A8 LWB have the best rear legroom of any car. In fact they don't even have the best rear legroom within VAG.

Which does? Our current Superb and its predecessor had huge amounts of rear legroom, be interested to know which VAG cars have more.

I'm not saying it's the answer, but a Seat Toledo is like an S-class in terms of leg room (and nothing else!)

The Seat Toledo (like the Skoda Rapid) is a stretched Ibiza/Fabia/Polo with a huge boot and some extra rear legroom. If you think that it is better than a Superb or an A8 LWB I suggest you go and view some cars. The extra legroom and boot space only addressed 2 of the requirements of making a family car since the interior is still pretty narrow and would never seat 3 adults in comfort.

Could not find any actual dimensions online but found a couple of photos.

www.automobiledimension.com/model/seat/toledo

www.automobiledimension.com/model/skoda/superb

Looks pretty clear that the Superb is way bigger in the back even if the pictures are from different angles.

But even if they had managed to turn a super mini into a stretched limo it would be pointless recommending either the Toledo or Rapid to the OP since neither have adaptive cruise or steering assist even as options.

Crikey, calm down

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - badbusdriver
The Superb estate may well be a great car, but neither it or the A8 LWB have the best rear legroom of any car. In fact they don't even have the best rear legroom within VAG.

Which does? Our current Superb and its predecessor had huge amounts of rear legroom, be interested to know which VAG cars have more.

The A8 LWB has a wheelbase just under 29cm longer than the Superb. But, the Bentley Mulsanne EWB has a wheelbase just under 39cm longer than the big Audi (there was also the Mulsanne Grand Limousine which was 75cm longer again)

Interestingly (OK, that may be an exaggeration), the 1st gen Superb was born out of a VW project called Passat Plus which was a stretched (B5) Passat. VW decided to go with the Phaeton instead and Skoda got the Passat Plus, grafted their grill and badges on and hey presto, the Superb was born. But that first gen cars actually had a longer wheelbase than the 2nd gen. I remember having a go in a Superb V6 turbo diesel auto, lovely thing!

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - skidpan

Crikey, calm down

Plenty calm. But the facts need to be correct and comparing a Seat Toledo with a Merc S class clearly shows a total lack of knowledge.

Interestingly (OK, that may be an exaggeration), the 1st gen Superb was born out of a VW project called Passat Plus which was a stretched (B5) Passat. VW decided to go with the Phaeton instead and Skoda got the Passat Plus, grafted their grill and badges on and hey presto, the Superb was born.

Part Correct. It was indeed a stretched Passat B5 (which is why its got the same engine layout) but it was a car that was made locally in China for the Chinese market where they love big cars apparently. As you say Skoda took the car, grafted their grill and badges on and hey presto, the Superb was born.

From Wiki "A lengthened platform went on to underpin the 'Passat' that was introduced in China in December 1999 by Shanghai-Volkswagen. This long-wheelbase version was rebadged and launched in Europe as the Škoda Superb in 2001."

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Adampr

Crikey, calm down

Plenty calm. But the facts need to be correct and comparing a Seat Toledo with a Merc S class clearly shows a total lack of knowledge.

I was making a comment, and no more recommending a Toledo than BBD was a Bentley.

As for facts, anyone can look on Wikipedia but you haven't actually produced any facts other than a couple of photos demonstrating nothing. I'm not saying for one second that the actual legroom in a Toledo is more than in a Superb, that was a joke, but you need to be equipped with facts before you start berating others for their 'total lack of knowledge '

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - skidpan

but you need to be equipped with facts before you start berating others for their 'total lack of knowledge '

We own a Superb, our 2nd, both Mk 3's.

We also own a Fabia, a Mk 3.

I have looked in a Toledo in the past when in 2013 we bought a Mk 3 Leon and I can assure you the Leon had much better space in the car other than a smaller boot (which for us at the time was not an issue). The rear space would have been an issue which was why we bought the more expensive Leon.

When rear space became an issue we bought a bigger car I.e. the Superb and not a smaller car like a Toledo.

So to sum up

  • The Leon had more rear space than the Toledo we looked at
  • The Superbs have way more space than the Leon

So how can a Toledo have more space than a Superb.

As you can see I am fully equipped with the facts.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - badbusdriver

With respect skidpan, those are not facts.

Here are facts:

The third gen Leon has a 34mm longer wheelbase than the Toledo, but overall length is 211mm shorter.

The second gen Leon has a 24mm shorter wheelbase than the Toledo, overall length is 159mm shorter.

Given that rear legroom in the Toledo is generous, (IMO) the main benefit (re interior space) in going for the Leon would be if regularly carrying three adults in the back, where the Toledo's narrowness would count against it (but of course if you are regularly five up, the extra 170 litres of boot space in the Toledo could come in handy!)

Also, as far as I can tell, nobody has claimed the Toledo has more space than a Superb?

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - skidpan

Also, as far as I can tell, nobody has claimed the Toledo has more space than a Superb?

Adampr at 13.43 said the Toledo was as big as a S Class Merc

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Adampr

Also, as far as I can tell, nobody has claimed the Toledo has more space than a Superb?

Adampr at 13.43 said the Toledo was as big as a S Class Merc

At 13:54 I said it was 'like' an S-class. It's a bit of a stretch to say that I was claiming that it was an absolute fact. Especially as I also said that I knew it wasn't the answer to the question, and subsequently explained that I wasn't serious in any case.

Anyway, I'm not planning to spend the rest of my day arguing with a stranger about an irrelevant joke

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - skidpan

Anyway, I'm not planning to spend the rest of my day arguing with a stranger about an irrelevant joke

It's you that is irrelevant.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Xileno

Nobody is irrelevant. Can we please try and keep the thread firmly on dealing with the OP's requirements. Hopefully they will come back and update us with any decision they might have made.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - alan1302

Also, as far as I can tell, nobody has claimed the Toledo has more space than a Superb?

Adampr at 13.43 said the Toledo was as big as a S Class Merc

They said the leg room was like an S Class Merc...no one said the Toldeo was as big as an S Class Merc.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - strowger

Thank you to everyone who answered the questions in my original post.

We did indeed go for the Suzuki Swace version of the Corolla, as suggested in the very first reply.

It is very relaxing to drive. I am astonished at how little petrol it consumes.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - strowger

We are achieving 57mpg tank-to-tank based on about 20% town driving and 80% long trips with the cruise set at 70 (giving perhaps 64 real mph), in 8-14C weather.

On emptier roads this would feel slow, but my M62/A1/M1 experience is that it's seldom possible to exceed this speed for long and one generally catches up with the people who do exceed it at the next junction/queue/roundabout.

We are very happy with it; if it were stolen tomorrow, we'd get another one the same.

The adaptive cruise is rock-solid, nailed-on reliable.

The steering assist is mixed. It greatly increases the level of relaxation on long drives, but is easily defeated by moderately-sharp bends (on motorways) or defects in the white lines and will depart the lane. In contrast to other systems we've tried, however, it re-engages again silently and without fuss or intervention whenever it's been over-ridden by turning the wheel. It is refreshingly, charmingly, free of beeping in normal operation.

The combination of the lanekeep and steering assist gives the same effect for long journeys as travelling in long-haul business class on a plane does: one gains back a day of life, formerly lost to recovering from tiring travel. It is possible to drive from Yorkshire to London, do something there, and drive back again, without being dangerously tired or losing all of the next day to recovering - whereas with a clutch, steering, and accelerator to manage, Yorkshire to London is the limit of safe driving in one day.

It is, really, only just powerful enough. Stopping at the end of a slip-road, or pulling onto the A1 from a layby, is a little bit fraught. Enthusiastic driving is very much not rewarded.

The HVAC controls are an acquired taste - but at least they aren't a touchscreen. The infotainment is absolute garbage, but supports Carplay, making that irrelevant.


Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Xileno

Thank you for coming back to update us. No car is ever perfect but it seems this one ticks all the important boxes for you. I like the comment about "would I buy it again?" That's a test I always apply to my purchases, whether motoring related or otherwise.

Edited by Xileno on 24/10/2022 at 20:06

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - skidpan

We tried the Corolla Estate 2 years ago (just after lockdown) when we were looking to replace the Superb with a automatic and preferably hybrid car. It was the 2 litre and went great but both me and the wife suffered from a severe ache in the right foot whilst driving. I was first to drive and did not comment since I had recently had a broken ankle and blamed that but when the wife commented whilst driving about her foot aching saying it concerned her since she had not experienced this before. We looked on the internet when we got home and there was quite a bit about people with these issues. Has the OP noted this at all.

Since we still liked the car we planned to get another (longer) test drive hoping to find the right driving position but the day before we were due to pick one up for the afternoon our local Skoda Dealer offered us a 1 month old 9 miles on the clock pre-reg Superb PHEV for less than a middle spec Corolla so a deal was done.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - strowger

went great but both me and the wife suffered from a severe ache in the right foot whilst driving. I was first to drive and did not comment since I had recently had a broken ankle and blamed that but when the wife commented whilst driving about her foot aching saying it concerned her since she had not experienced this before. We looked on the internet when we got home and there was quite a bit about people with these issues. Has the OP noted this at all.

Ugh, I don’t know, sorry.

I get that a bit if I drive a long way and actually use the pedals (rather than just sticking it into adaptive cruise and sitting back). But I get it in any car, because most days I never drive more than 15 minutes in one go.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - Heidfirst

It is, really, only just powerful enough. Stopping at the end of a slip-road, or pulling onto the A1 from a layby, is a little bit fraught. Enthusiastic driving is very much not rewarded.


The HVAC controls are an acquired taste - but at least they aren't a touchscreen. The infotainment is absolute garbage, but supports Carplay, making that irrelevant.

I wonder if the Swace will be getting the same improvements as the MY23 Corolla which should address much of that (& indeed there already was a 2.0 hybrid Corolla with improved performance)? One would think that it would be easier for Toyota to build just the one underlying platform for both rather than a mix of the old/new but you never know ...

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - strowger

I wonder if the Swace will be getting the same improvements as the MY23 Corolla which should address much of that (& indeed there already was a 2.0 hybrid Corolla with improved performance)? One would think that it would be easier for Toyota to build just the one underlying platform for both rather than a mix of the old/new but you never know ...

The Facebook group report that the Swace can no longer be ordered, pending an update, so it looks like you’re right and it will be updated.

I was aware of the 2.0 version (only available with Toyota badge, not as a Swace). It’s reported as feeling much more powerful than the paper difference between 1.8 and 2.0 suggests. However, it uses more fuel, all the time, to give this extra performance, and I don’t find it important enough to spend money on.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - badbusdriver

I was aware of the 2.0 version (only available with Toyota badge, not as a Swace). It’s reported as feeling much more powerful than the paper difference between 1.8 and 2.0 suggests.

Odd thing to say, which suggests the on paper difference isn't very big between the 1.8 and 2.0 hybrids. In fact the 2.0 has around 50% more power than the 1.8, so surely anyone looking at the on paper figures would realise that will make a big difference in performance?.

However, it uses more fuel, all the time, to give this extra performance,

This just isn't the case.

First, these hybrids, when used in an urban environment, could be running solely on electric power as much as 50% of the time.

Secondly, how much performance/power an engine gives is solely dependant on what is being requested by the driver by how far down he is pressing the accelerator pedal. If a Corolla/Swace 1.8 hybrid and a Corolla 2.0 hybrid are cruising along at 60mph, the difference in economy is going to be absolutely tiny. In fact, if this was in a hilly environment, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 2.0 actually returned better economy due to the ICE having to work less hard maintaining that speed than the 1.8. Also, if the Corolla 1.8 hybrid driver accelerates from a standstill as fast as the car will allow and the 2.0 hybrid driver is matching (but not exceeding) that pace, the difference in economy is going to be similarly tiny.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - strowger

However, it uses more fuel, all the time, to give this extra performance,

This just isn't the case.

The manufacturer claims 10 MPG less for the 2.0.

Reviews agree.

This very website's Real MPG section suggests 53 MPG for the 2.0 vs 63 MPG for the 1.8.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 2.0 actually returned better economy

I would be.

19% increase in fuel cost, extra insurance cost, unknown extra maintenance cost, and *thousands* extra in purchase cost (given that the 2.0 is only available with the Toyota badge, and our very own 1.8 Swace was £4k cheaper than the equivalent 1.8 Toyota) - in order to accelerate faster on a few occasions. Not worth it for me.

Family car with adaptive cruise & steering assist - davecooper

Mazda 3 or CX-30 with Skyactive X engine. All the toys and mid 50's mpg. Not the roomiest in the back but never found it a problem.