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N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Speedbird 747

A friend of mine with a 100kw Ford Mustang has heard that the government is planning to ration electricity to EV’s this winter, as power cuts are virtually inevitable. The cheap overnight charging deals will end.

I did wonder how the government would prioritise electrical power this winter. Also with this in mind, apparently owners of EV’s are now investing in portable petrol generators.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - mcb100
There is legislation in place to allow EV home charging to pause during periods of high demand - but an owner can override it.
A more complete explanation here - insights.leaseplan.co.uk/electric-vehicles/ev-smar.../
N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Ethan Edwards

Couple of thoughts about that.

Smart chargers able to be turned on and off remotely via the net. Those were the ones that qualified for the Govt grant. Now you know why. Some of us said no and fitted a "dumb" charger. Looking pretty smart now eh?

Second. I have a agreed legal contract between an Elec supplier and myself. Detailing times of reduced cost. If a third party seeks to void that surely they open themselves up to legal action.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - edlithgow

Couple of thoughts about that.

Smart chargers able to be turned on and off remotely via the net. Those were the ones that qualified for the Govt grant. Now you know why. Some of us said no and fitted a "dumb" charger. Looking pretty smart now eh?

Second. I have a agreed legal contract between an Elec supplier and myself. Detailing times of reduced cost. If a third party seeks to void that surely they open themselves up to legal action.

The third party in question writes the laws.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Chris M

Not exactly. Your supplier is acting on behalf of your network operator under the National Terms of Connection. If there is deemed an 'emergency', who is going to be prioritised? I think keeping the lights on and heating people's homes will be above charging EVs at times of peak demand.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Adampr

My EV charger runs off my main meter. I can't think of a way 'they' could possibly turn off the power to the car without physically coming in my house and switching it off. Why would 'they' stop the cheaper overnight rate? It's cheaper because there's much less demand.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Sofa Spud

Rationing of electricity supply could only take the form of power cuts. If those happen, then the pumps at filling stations will be inoperative, so people wouldn't be able to fill up with petrol or diesel either.

I suppose, thinking about it, that suppliers could introduce a type of smart charger capable of being turned off over wi-fi.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 08/08/2022 at 09:32

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Ethan Edwards

I suppose, thinking about it, that suppliers could introduce a type of smart charger capable of being turned off over wi-fi.

Already have. From May this year such a net access remote control charger is the only one you can legally buy and install.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Grenache

Rationing of electricity supply could only take the form of power cuts. If those happen, then the pumps at filling stations will be inoperative, so people wouldn't be able to fill up with petrol or diesel either.

Difference is I can get a 550-mile "charge" in 5 minutes with my ICE

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Chris M

My supplier is Octopus and I'm guessing their T&C's are similar to everyone elses. They can come and change my meter to a Smart one if they decide to and can restrict the best tariffs to those with them fitted. They could just as easily say we'll only offer the best EV tariffs to those with a smart charger. Won't happen in time for this winter but the next? In short, the suppliers can influence customers through pricing.

Out of interest, is a current dumb charger the same as a smart one but just hasn't had the 'smart' function activated? So an upgrade is easy to achieve should the supplier wish?

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Ethan Edwards

No it's not. My charger has no physical gubbins to make it smart. It's essentially a funny shaped wall socket. Want to turn it off? Go into my garage and pull the cable out. No net access nothing.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Chris M

"No it's not. My charger has no physical gubbins to make it smart."

So if, or more likely when, suppliers start charging more to supply the dumb owners, you can't easily upgrade but will have to do the maths and decide whether to become a smart owner?

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Ethan Edwards

How will they know you have an EV charger? Especially if you arent charging at the time. I do have a smart meter but timing when the ev is charged is controlled by onboard gubbins in the car itself. Its invisible to the Government meddlers. Upgrading is simple but where is my incentive?

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Ethan Edwards

In practice these days our judges seem to think they write the laws. Eg lots of decisions over the last twenty years.

Edited by Ethan Edwards on 08/08/2022 at 09:51

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Terry W

The luxury of an effectively infinite capacity to generate electricity to meet spikes in demand are long gone. There are choices to be made in power supply:

  1. build capacity to ensure that all demand peaks can met. High cost of infrastructure lying idle for much of the time.
  2. load shed in periods of high demand. Prioritise services with an option to charge a premium rate for supply to non-essential user during demand peaks
  3. accept rolling random blackouts. Cheap but very disruptive.

(1) means everyone pays, and (3) is cheap but with random, possibly very damaging impacts. (2) seems fair - prioritise essential services, premium charges for others. Like many services with demand lead pricing - airline tickets, hotel rooms, train tickets, holidays etc.

Whilst the number of EVs on the road is currently trivial, in the next few years they will grow rapidly. The price regimes under which they operate in the future need to be established.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Speedbird 747

The solution is simple. All those virtual signallers who own EV’s should only be allowed to charge them from renewable energy.

So, no problems on bright windy days, but EV’s should not be allowed to be charged by electricity generated by gas or coal. People will not accept power cuts because EV’s are being charged and overloading the grid.

There should also be an “end of life” tax on new EV’s to subsidise the disposal of their batteries. Why should the tax payer be burdened with that?

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - John F

In view of the ever escalating price of grid electricity I am beginning to wonder if it might make economic sense in the long term for those with EV(s) and oil fired heating to invest in a diesel generator (fuel oil currently circa 85ppl plus 5%vat)? Indeed, if your only electricity requirement is for a few lights, a fridge and some IT equipment, might now be the time to go off grid?

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - focussed

In view of the ever escalating price of grid electricity I am beginning to wonder if it might make economic sense in the long term for those with EV(s) and oil fired heating to invest in a diesel generator (fuel oil currently circa 85ppl plus 5%vat)? Indeed, if your only electricity requirement is for a few lights, a fridge and some IT equipment, might now be the time to go off grid?

Whether doing that makes any economic sense depends mainly on the price you pay for mains electricity plus the fuel cost and usage.

Add to that the cost of installing a battery bank and high quality sinewave inverter/charger so you don't have to run the generator for a few led lights and your computer.

I've done all the calcs for doing this in France and it doesn't add up at the price we pay for power here to go 100% off grid unless you are going to go for heat and power from the same power source, and even then it's dubious and the installation cost is high.

We've got a 3kva petrol silent generator to cope with the inevitable power cuts in rural France, storms bring the trees and lines down etc.

If we suffer a power cut of more than 6 hours we get compensation from EDF here, the last one was for 15 hours and overnight and we got €100 reimbursed for two metered supplies which paid for the fuel for the generator 4 times over.

I just run it for lights, tv, internet, microwave and if necessary to heat hot water.

I'm considering going for a battery/inverter + generator setup in case we get long periods without power in the future, but that's looking at £1200 to £1500.

That buys a lot of candles!

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Ethan Edwards

Given used EV batteries are in extremely high demand for second use as Domestic power storage, its unlikely the taxpayer will be so burdened. But if you find yourself with several of them give them to me. I could use the cash.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Adampr

The solution is simple. All those virtual signallers who own EV’s should only be allowed to charge them from renewable energy.

So, no problems on bright windy days, but EV’s should not be allowed to be charged by electricity generated by gas or coal. People will not accept power cuts because EV’s are being charged and overloading the grid.

There should also be an “end of life” tax on new EV’s to subsidise the disposal of their batteries. Why should the tax payer be burdened with that?

I have an EV to save money and have a more responsive engine. Not sure if those count as virtues. I'm also on a 100% renewable tariff. No-one is overloading the grid and use of electricity is actually declining.

Finally, batteries are reused, not thrown away.

Why let reality get in the way of some weird vendetta though?

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - RT

The solution is simple. All those virtual signallers who own EV’s should only be allowed to charge them from renewable energy.

So, no problems on bright windy days, but EV’s should not be allowed to be charged by electricity generated by gas or coal. People will not accept power cuts because EV’s are being charged and overloading the grid.

There should also be an “end of life” tax on new EV’s to subsidise the disposal of their batteries. Why should the tax payer be burdened with that?

I have an EV to save money and have a more responsive engine. Not sure if those count as virtues. I'm also on a 100% renewable tariff. No-one is overloading the grid and use of electricity is actually declining.

Finally, batteries are reused, not thrown away.

Why let reality get in the way of some weird vendetta though?

How much did you have to pay up front to start saving money, either cash purchase or commitment to ongoing finance.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Adampr

2 year lease at £350 a month, so a commitment of £8,400. No servicing or insurance costs on top of that and no deposit.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Terry W

Rather than ban EV charging when the sun isn't shining, or the wind not blowing, it is more likely ICE will be remotely disabled when pollution levels exceed a threshold to improve the city environment.

Fuel stations closed and traffic lights set to EV only.

Cameras will catch and punish offenders.

That said - EV charging may end up on a flexible tariff where the cost per KW increases when total electricity demand is high, conversely reduced when demand is low - eg: overnight. Owners can choose the tariff they want.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - pd

Even in the highly unlikely event they do turn them off presumably you could always revert to a basic 3-pin plug charge? There is no way the supplier knows if you are powering a car, an oven or a shower.

Bearing in mind it seems to take 3 people protesting outside a depot in Essex to bring the entire fuel supply infrastructure of the south of the UK to a complete halt on current recent evidence easy and reliable availability of "fuel" currently seems to be a win for the EV.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Andrew-T

The solution is simple. All those virtual signallers who own EV’s should only be allowed to charge them from renewable energy. So, no problems on bright windy days, but EV’s should not be allowed to be charged by electricity generated by gas or coal.

Interesting notion, but how do you tell where the different electrons came from ? You can't even do that with solar panels, when you might think that you could arrange for all your usage to be home-made - if there's enough of course.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy

The luxury of an effectively infinite capacity to generate electricity to meet spikes in demand are long gone. There are choices to be made in power supply:

  1. build capacity to ensure that all demand peaks can met. High cost of infrastructure lying idle for much of the time.
  2. load shed in periods of high demand. Prioritise services with an option to charge a premium rate for supply to non-essential user during demand peaks
  3. accept rolling random blackouts. Cheap but very disruptive.

(1) means everyone pays, and (3) is cheap but with random, possibly very damaging impacts. (2) seems fair - prioritise essential services, premium charges for others. Like many services with demand lead pricing - airline tickets, hotel rooms, train tickets, holidays etc.

Whilst the number of EVs on the road is currently trivial, in the next few years they will grow rapidly. The price regimes under which they operate in the future need to be established.

How does one determnine what is a 'essential user', or, for that matter, an 'essential use', given the electricity or gas company has no idea (and won't without metering up every item in buildings, homes, etc) what their product will be used for.

A hospital may be deemed an 'essential user', but that won't stop them from using electricity in an inefficient way or downright wasting it - in fact, having that designation would actively encourage wastage.

I recall on many occasions visiting hospitals (or other large government buildings) where (often large) unoccupied areas were fully heated (including hot water provision) and lit, and not because they were 'emergency backup / capacity' areas either.

In a domestic situation, each person has their own needs, some of which use significant amounts of electricity (or gas) but again, the utility company would not know about. This is made all the worse by the high likelihood of the less well-off having older, less efficient heating/HW boilers, appliances and other household devices.

The problem with 'surge pricing' is that ithas the most significant effect on those least able (including affording to change less efficient appliances, etc) to change habits, and frankly the last thing we need right now is yet more taxes that get partially consumed by the Civil Service that make even more less well off people dependent on government handouts.

I would also note that there also have been moves afoot for EV charging to automatically go in reverse to feed back into the grid. No doubt this will only (financially) benefit those with more expensive EVs with large battery packs who don't need the full range on a daily basis but otherwise have access to ultra-fast charging when demand is lower.

It also would be a good idea to stop importing loads of extra people so demand doesn't keep rising. I suspect that plays at least as big a role as the rolout of EVs and usage of modern tech that consumes lots of electricity.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Brit_in_Germany

More anti-immigration BS.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy

More anti-immigration BS.

Seriously? I'm blaming those who let them in /want them to enter in big numbers and then complain about a lack of X or Y infrastructure, energy, etc, etc. Nothing to do with the people themselves. The official figures say net migration (likely a VERY conservtive figure) has added serval million since 2011. Those people need housing, water, electricity, gas, etc.

If demand goes up, supply is tighter, leading to price increases and shortages. Just pure economics. You logic is flawed.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Bromptonaut

In practice these days our judges seem to think they write the laws. Eg lots of decisions over the last twenty years.

They don't write the laws they interpret them when a citizen says 'hang on a mo'.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy

In practice these days our judges seem to think they write the laws. Eg lots of decisions over the last twenty years.

They don't write the laws they interpret them when a citizen says 'hang on a mo'.

After the inception of the 'Supreme Court', they've done far more than that. That they've also become a political tool for one side makes it all the worse. And most of the 'citizens' you speak of are very well funded activists but who rarely have any backing amongst the wider public.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - mcb100
I can’t make up my mind whether the ‘virtue signallers’ comment is serious but seriously misguided, or someone wanting a bit of attention.

Edited by mcb100 on 08/08/2022 at 18:13

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy
I can’t make up my mind whether the ‘virtue signallers’ comment is serious but seriously misguided, or someone wanting a bit of attention.

Other than they can't spell virtue correct, what exactly was wrong with it?

They rightly say that for EV owners to be genuinely green, the electricity used in their cars needs to be green, and why should the rest of us subsidise their purchases (often when they can already afford the car without handouts) and then we all pay for the recycling and/or effects of disposal of battery components, some of why are very hard (very labour and energy intensive) to recycle.

Unless they are solely using green energy, then all they are doing is transferring pollution from wealthy areas to those next to power stations or where waste materials from end-of-life EVs or components are dumped in landfill.

I think many people are virtue-signalling on green issues rather than actually doing useful things to everyone, often because they can easily afford to. Not so easy for the rest of us to, be we appear to have to subsidise the virtue-signalling. Why - especially if the overwhelming majority who buy EVs have no need for a subsidy to be able to buy one?

Green campaingers and 'entrpreneurs' keep banging on about how much money they tech will bring into the economy but seemingly after a long time their businesses still need huge subsidies on their side and huge taxes (funnelled their way, often without any proper scrutiny) on the ICE side and generally to 'make them viable'.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Sparrow

I know 2 people with electric cars who already have diesel generators, but they are both getting their generators serviced ready for the winter. They want to keep mobile andnot be contrained by the likely power cuts. Electric charging will be possibly subject to

Separate cuts from "other" electricity using the new smart chargers, which have remote switch off. Ordinary domestic smart meters also have remote switch off but not everyone has them yet.

Problems will occur with the supply when there is cold weather and not much wind, so most generation will be by gas. Maybe we should keep the coal fired power stations running until alternatives are in place. Whoever thinks that we have sufficient electrical power for all the old and new uses is deluded. The 1970s had power cuts and bonkers inflation. It would be really good if we could avoid a repetition of that very stressful time.

Edited by Sparrow on 08/08/2022 at 18:19

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Adampr

If every car in the UK went electric overnight, the call on the National Grid would be the same as it was in 2005.

The point of smart chargers is not that they can be switched off by third parties, but actually so that EV batteries can be used to take excess power from the grid and feed it back when needed, with the owner receiving payment for that. If someone tried to switch it off, one would.simply disconnect from the internet.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Bolt

If every car in the UK went electric overnight, the call on the National Grid would be the same as it was in 2005.

The point of smart chargers is not that they can be switched off by third parties, but actually so that EV batteries can be used to take excess power from the grid and feed it back when needed, with the owner receiving payment for that. If someone tried to switch it off, one would.simply disconnect from the internet.

Not so sure that would happen, some cars will have basically a E sim card built into the car ecu which would transmit cars details to a central department who will take all info needed as it needs it, like Tesla have.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - angelcyn

The National grid has stated they will need a 60% increas in base load to fulfil all the governments 2050 objectives, it is not just EVs they want to use electricity over say gas, with our appalling lack over decades of ifrastructure to deal with normal needs the net zero objectives are not feasable without such infrastructure.

As with water companies an increase in population has not been matched by an increase in capacity, EVs will be the last thing we have to worry about, all this was foreseen and warned about years ago, but no governments have taken the green route without any thought about how it is achieved, look at the state Germany is in and no it is not all the fault of Russian gas, their anti nuclear policy has seen them now burning lignite in re opened power stations, at least they have coal fired power stations to re open, we couldn't bulldoze ours quick enough.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Sparrow

Before an EV battery can be used to power the grid it first has to be charged. You need generating capacity to do that. Yes, it can be used to smooth out demand peaks depending on how those peaks line up with EV need to go somewhere. As far as I am aware there is no legal requirement (yet?) for EV owners to do this, and would result in more charge-discharge cycles and so potentially diminish battery lifetimes.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Manatee

I did wonder how the government would prioritise electrical power this winter. Also with this in mind, apparently owners of EV’s are now investing in portable petrol generators.

I think they might find this tricky to do.

What 'they' should do is limit the power and performance of electric cars. There's a lot of power to be saved. I frequently see them accelerating at ridiculous rates and being driven at wastefully high speeds. In that respect of course they are no different to ICE cars. I do wonder when I see a double cab pickup being thrashed at 85 on a dual carriageway if the driver is paying for the fuel.

The 'estate' of ICE cars still dominates. Now is the time to limit EV's so that as they replace ICE, the dreadful waste of power is reduced.

Incidentally I don't think most EV buyers are virtue signalling. Or looking for a responsive engine. Sales have been propelled by company car choosers saving BIK tax charges. Like the solar power subsidies, these are an effective method of transferring money from better off people to poorer ones.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Brit_in_Germany

I think you may have meant that last comment to be the other way round - transferring money, through taxes, from poorer people to the better off.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Manatee

I think you may have meant that last comment to be the other way round - transferring money, through taxes, from poorer people to the better off.

You are quite correct.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - skidpan

I think you may have meant that last comment to be the other way round - transferring money, through taxes, from poorer people to the better off.

You are quite correct.

Richie Rich admitted last week that he had been transferring monies form the poorer northern areas to the richer south east.

So it seems that despite their supposed desire to "level up" the UK they are doing exactly the opposite in reality.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Andrew-T

I think you may have meant that last comment to be the other way round - transferring money, through taxes, from poorer people to the better off.

Whether or not that was the motivation behind the solar-panel subsidy (I have had 9 panels since 2011), it had the effect of getting the installation industry started, and sowing the idea with the public. I think I have just about recovered my original £10K investment, as we are on the protected initial high feed-in tariff, so I suppose as far as that goes I am reaping some benefit.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Terry W

Were no subsidies available for EVs would any be sold? I suspect none or very few!

If it is accepted EVs represent a desirable non-polluting future (not a universal belief in fairness), then a way to encourage sales is required.

Encouragement could come in a number of ways - eg: pricing ICE beyond the reach of most, limiting the use of ICE (inside towns and cities), or subsidising EVs. May be others.

Any subsidy on a new car is going to benefit the wealthier - it is they who can afford a new car, not the poor and needy. Even were the subsidy means tested (plausible?) it would unlikely attract the poorer bits of society, and may not encourage the wealthy.

The benefit to the poor and needy comes downstream - they will no longer have to live in polluted inner cities (now clean due to zero emissions), and in time will be able to afford second hand EVs (just as they do ICE now).

Turning EV subsidies into some sort of deliberate political intent to benefit the wealthy at the expense of the poor is (IMHO) fatuous.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Brit_in_Germany

The big test will be how the prices of subsidised EVs develop when they enter the second hand market, where the buyers will tend to be the 'poorer' private owners. If the prices are calculated based on the list price, the rich will have benefited but if they are based on the price after subsidies, the tax payer support will have had some benefit for those lower down the chain. I suspect the latter would be dependent on the subsidies being maintained.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - RT

The big test will be how the prices of subsidised EVs develop when they enter the second hand market, where the buyers will tend to be the 'poorer' private owners. If the prices are calculated based on the list price, the rich will have benefited but if they are based on the price after subsidies, the tax payer support will have had some benefit for those lower down the chain. I suspect the latter would be dependent on the subsidies being maintained.

Used car prices aren't calculated, they reflect the varying demand for a particular car, hence values shooting up when new cars were in short supply

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Xileno

Certainly it seems to be fairly well-heeled drivers in the new EVs, no doubt taking advantage of the BIK. However, the tax system is being used to change a direction of behaviour and these new EVs will end up on the used market for those of smaller budgets to buy. It's less clear how anyone other than the homeowner benefits from the subsidies on domestic.solar panels.

This subject centres around one issue - will there be enough power to go around? There must be some research completed on this. It won't do anyone any good - including the Govt's popularity - if the lights go out.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - mcb100
I’ve posted this before, but here’s an actual expert from the National Grid to say that there’s enough electricity to go around.
This is based on ‘normal’ times, however, before the threat of Putin turning off gas supplies became a thing.
youtu.be/eaE57tChPQM
N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Terry W

The Putin effect should reinforce the need to reduce dependence on fossil fuels (coal, oil, gas) and increase the resolve to invest in alternative nuclear and green technologies.

The impact of EVs on electricity demand will be large - but not immediately. Currently there are ~0.8m electric and hybrids from a total of ~33m vehicles on the road - about 3%.

It will be another 20 years before substantially all vehicles are electric. There is plenty of time to adapt and increase power generation to meet the need - complacency is not an option, power outages are a risk if investment is not forthcoming, but not baked in.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy

The Putin effect should reinforce the need to reduce dependence on fossil fuels (coal, oil, gas) and increase the resolve to invest in alternative nuclear and green technologies.

The impact of EVs on electricity demand will be large - but not immediately. Currently there are ~0.8m electric and hybrids from a total of ~33m vehicles on the road - about 3%.

It will be another 20 years before substantially all vehicles are electric. There is plenty of time to adapt and increase power generation to meet the need - complacency is not an option, power outages are a risk if investment is not forthcoming, but not baked in.

Just wondering how all those EVs will charge overnight in winter when the sun is below the horizon and the wind isn't blowing? Germany dumped nuclear after Fukishima, so they have essentially nothing left.

And despite all the recent propouncements of 'huge' new deposits of battery raw materials, that would certainly not cover the amount needed in vehicles, all other devices that use them AND the enormous backup/stirage capaity in the electricity generation network that would be needed to cope with evening peak demand + EV charging overnight, and that's assuming the countryside is wall-towall solar panels and wind turbines, which it won't ever be.

As I've said before, the systems for generating and storing electricity to replace fossil fuels, never mind EV charging on the scale and performance of ICE is still several decades away, at least without bankrupting us all.

I mean, why are governments spending fortunes now on often untried, unsuitable or hideously expensive tech when we're already up to our ears in debt due to the COVID 'response' and other money-printing/spending measures since 2008?

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - corax
Just wondering how all those EVs will charge overnight in winter when the sun is below the horizon and the wind isn't blowing? Germany dumped nuclear after Fukishima, so they have essentially nothing left.

I've often wondered why Germany made that decision. They don't sit on a fault line, the risk of earthquakes is very low. Seems an overreaction.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy
Just wondering how all those EVs will charge overnight in winter when the sun is below the horizon and the wind isn't blowing? Germany dumped nuclear after Fukishima, so they have essentially nothing left.

I've often wondered why Germany made that decision. They don't sit on a fault line, the risk of earthquakes is very low. Seems an overreaction.

I believe it was because politicians feared the rise of the Green Party gaining influence amongst younger voters via 'safety' arguments and, via coalitions with mainly left-of-centre parties, taking power away from the CDU...which has now happened.

Even so, the major coalition party are now having to rethink the use of nuclear and coal because of the consequences of the sanctions on Russia and thus restrictions on gas, where they depend far more heavily on imports from that country than we do.

I agree that it is an overreaction, but then that's par for the course for most politicians in order to save their own careers. That they've fudged about any alternatives (like nearly all of ours did) shows how poor quality and weak-minded they are.

That France of all nations are even now contemplating doing the same under the current circumstance is even more unbelievable.

I think we're all going to be in for a very bad next few years - probably maing the 1970s look nice in comparison.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - focussed

"That France of all nations are even now contemplating doing the same under the current circumstance is even more unbelievable"

Presumably meaning that France is contemplating doing away with nuclear power?

As I live in France and read some French newspapers every day I haven't seen that policy proposed.

As much as you can believe any politician, Macron stated publicly before he was re-elected that he would start a program to build more reactors, some to replace the existing plant that is nearing the end of it's life and some additional ones.

The problem right now is that about half of the total 56 reactors are either down for scheduled maintenance or repair of cracks in reactor safety cooling pipe circuits and whether EDF can get the repairs done and the reactors back on line before the winter.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Andrew-T

It's less clear how anyone other than the homeowner benefits from the subsidies on domestic.solar panels..

When a significant number of houses have solar panels, the need for mainstream generation reduces by an amount depending on available sunlight. That should affect public expenditure on new generating capacity, of whatever kind.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Adampr

No subsidies are available for EVs

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Ethan Edwards

No subsidies are available for EVs

I got some when I bought/ leased my two. But no BIK at all. That's now ended and tbh wasn't a factor at all for me.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Speedbird 747

How do EV owners feel about charging their cars with electricity generated by gas or coal?

The government is planning on four days of blackouts in January. Will the Tesla charging

points still work though?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11095907/Britain-braces-winter-blackouts-doomsday-plans-come-force-January.html

Edited by Speedbird 747 on 09/08/2022 at 23:41

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - mcb100
Assuming an EV is charged from a typical UK electricity mix of renewables/non-renewables, for every 10 miles covered approximately half are powered by gas already. About 250 yards by coal.
So an EV, with a greater carbon footprint to produce, takes c30,000 miles to ‘break even’ on co2 emissions when compared to a similar ICE. Increased use of coal will push this figure up, but not markedly.
If the EV public charge points are blacked out due to power cuts, then I’d assume petrol stations will be similarly affected.
N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Adampr

The government is 'planning on' no such thing. They're 'planning for' i.e. contingency planning. Even then, surely you know that the Mail is only a reliable source of hypertension, not news.

As for how EV owners feel about charging from non-renewable energy sources; much the same as I do about all of my other appliances running from the same sources. It's disappointing that we're not fully renewable yet, but we are progressing

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - corax

The government is 'planning on' no such thing. They're 'planning for' i.e. contingency planning. Even then, surely you know that the Mail is only a reliable source of hypertension, not news.

If it's in the Mail then it must be true. The same paper that thinks a 'Big Freeze' is a few days of frost, amongst others. Making sure that every sucker who reads it has something to whinge about needlessly.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Sparrow

Indeed progress is slow. There's a lot of talk. Oh if only the Severn Barrage that was planned decades ago had been implemented then it would have cushioned the loss of supply from our old nuclear power stations. Indeed, when they go offline progress towards green energy could well go backwards for a while. PS I am considering nuclear as low CO2 here. Not everyone considers them green.

Edited by Sparrow on 10/08/2022 at 10:04

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - RT

Indeed progress is slow. There's a lot of talk. Oh if only the Severn Barrage that was planned decades ago had been implemented then it would have cushioned the loss of supply from our old nuclear power stations. Indeed, when they go offline progress towards green energy could well go backwards for a while. PS I am considering nuclear as low CO2 here. Not everyone considers them green.

A Severn Barrage would have been an environmental disaster for wildlife - so it gets no credit for being "green".

We should never have abandoned our gradual replacement of older nuclear power stations.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - pd

By 2026 we'll have around 65Gw of renewables generating capacity. Of course, we won't get that every day and some days it will be vastly less

However, demand is frequently only about 30-35Gw so there will be plenty of headroom and on some days at some times 100% will be coming from renewables.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - galileo

Here's a link to current National Grid status.

Interesting to look at this at different days of the week, times of day and weather.

www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - pd

Here's a link to current National Grid status.

Interesting to look at this at different days of the week, times of day and weather.

www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Thus far this year renewables have averaged an output of 10.3GW. That compares to an average 31.2GW demand.

That is going to at least treble in next 3-4 years, probably more. Of course there will be times the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine which will coincide with big demand but a lot of the time it will coincide (in fact we'll have loads of excess energy). We'll still need gas and we'll certainly need nuclear but the times we need them will reduce a lot so overall we will be using a lot less gas and be a lot less held hostage on gas prices.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Speedbird 747

That is not true. Wind has only been producing around 4 or 5Gw for weeks due to high pressure systems responsible for the drought, and there is not much solar produced at night.

Gas always seems to be over 50% of demand plus nuclear. So EV drivers who think their cars are zero CO2, fail to take into account their electricity is mainly generated by gas.

There will not be any huge expansion of wind generated electricity, as every gigawatt has to be backed up by gas in case the windmills are becalmed.

The whole Net Zero agenda has been a monumental con job. People are paying dearly for their energy now, and many pensioners unable to heat their homes will die this winter. The icing on the cake will be the new price cap in October, which will make charging a 100kw car battery as expensive as 50 litres of petrol.

https://gridwatch.co.uk/

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Adampr

That is not true. Wind has only been producing around 4 or 5Gw for weeks due to high pressure systems responsible for the drought, and there is not much solar produced at night.

Gas always seems to be over 50% of demand plus nuclear. So EV drivers who think their cars are zero CO2, fail to take into account their electricity is mainly generated by gas.

There will not be any huge expansion of wind generated electricity, as every gigawatt has to be backed up by gas in case the windmills are becalmed.

The whole Net Zero agenda has been a monumental con job. People are paying dearly for their energy now, and many pensioners unable to heat their homes will die this winter. The icing on the cake will be the new price cap in October, which will make charging a 100kw car battery as expensive as 50 litres of petrol.

https://gridwatch.co.uk/

Charging my 50kwh car battery in October will cost me £2.50. 100kwh would be £5, so could you please let me know where you're getting your petrol at 10p a litre?

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Ethan Edwards

Charging my 50kwh car battery in October will cost me £2.50. 100kwh would be £5, so could you please let me know where you're getting your petrol at 10p a litre?

Me too on EDF Go35 with my EVs 50kwh battery.. I also have Solar PV and am looking into getting some storage battery fitted. This should shift a lot of my consumption to either solar or the five hour 4.5p window. Either way should bring down the average cost substantially. If they made an ICE car that cost less than 1.2p per mile to run then I'll take two.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Speedbird 747

That is not what Honest John says.

A Nissan Leaf e+, for example, with a useable battery capacity of 59kWh, currently costs £16.52 to charge at peak times but applying the October price cap this would rise to £30.68.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Ethan Edwards

Think you're conflating home charging with a corking fixed tarriff, with one of the more pricey public chargers. Both Adamprs figures and my own are factual not speculative.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - alan1302

The whole Net Zero agenda has been a monumental con job. People are paying dearly for their energy now, and many pensioners unable to heat their homes will die this winter. The icing on the cake will be the new price cap in October, which will make charging a 100kw car battery as expensive as 50 litres of petrol.

The reason people are paying a lot is due to high gas prices - nothing to do with green levys or renewables. Renewables would keep costs down. You've been conned into thinking otherwise.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy

By 2026 we'll have around 65Gw of renewables generating capacity. Of course, we won't get that every day and some days it will be vastly less

However, demand is frequently only about 30-35Gw so there will be plenty of headroom and on some days at some times 100% will be coming from renewables.

Unfortunately the time of the day and year when demand is higher (especially when it's dark) coincides with that when wind and solar generation is at its lowest and by some margin.

You need an enormous amount of battery storage (and in my view far more than we'll likely to have in raw materials for), never mind the electricity needed for cooling of such systems, to meet demand when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.

The other problem is that wind and sub energy are not exactly constant even at the best of times (it's sunny right now but there's little to no wind) and it takes time to build up reserves to be able to be used when generation capacity is lower.

For that reason, it was why it was a very bad idea for that huge gas storage facility to be mothballed (and which will cost £Bns to reopen) and in a similar vein, for water companies not to invest in better water storage facilities and desal plants.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - galileo

The other problem is that wind and sub energy are not exactly constant even at the best of times (it's sunny right now but there's little to no wind) and it takes time to build up reserves to be able to be used when generation capacity is lower.

For that reason, it was why it was a very bad idea for that huge gas storage facility to be mothballed (and which will cost £Bns to reopen) and in a similar vein, for water companies not to invest in better water storage facilities and desal plants.

Usual short-term thinking by every government, as follows:

"If we spend money on more nuclear or gas extraction and storage, the greens will be upset and won't vote for us next time.

If we build new reservoirs the NIMBYs will be upset, won't vote for us next time.

Let's kick the can down the road again and gamble that the s*** won't hit the fan on our watch, so we can get re-elected and keep our well-paid positions and pension rights."

[From secret bugging devices in No 10 over the last 50 years?]

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy

The other problem is that wind and sub energy are not exactly constant even at the best of times (it's sunny right now but there's little to no wind) and it takes time to build up reserves to be able to be used when generation capacity is lower.

For that reason, it was why it was a very bad idea for that huge gas storage facility to be mothballed (and which will cost £Bns to reopen) and in a similar vein, for water companies not to invest in better water storage facilities and desal plants.

Usual short-term thinking by every government, as follows:

"If we spend money on more nuclear or gas extraction and storage, the greens will be upset and won't vote for us next time.

If we build new reservoirs the NIMBYs will be upset, won't vote for us next time.

Let's kick the can down the road again and gamble that the s*** won't hit the fan on our watch, so we can get re-elected and keep our well-paid positions and pension rights."

[From secret bugging devices in No 10 over the last 50 years?]

Surely not? I got it from watching Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister, which were made around 40 years ago! :-)

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Terry W

There seems to be a mistaken assumption that politicians run the country.

Civil servants run the country, rise through the ranks with experience and training, have largely secure jobs and a pension at the end of it all. A few get a gong of some sort.

Politicians have insecure jobs, face election every few years - but enjoy decent pensions. Ministers rarely have relevant knowledge or training. No surprise they want to take the credit for successes and blame someone else for the failures (usually the opposition).

There are ~7000 senior civil servants and only 650 MPs. Senior Civil Servant have a median salary of ~£82k - the top level earn ~£200k - not dissimilar to MPs and ministers overall.

No wonder the Sir Humphreys prevail - politics desperately needs reform to put accountability where is belongs, but the status quo is clearly the preferred option for the 7000 in charge.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - mcb100
‘Difference is I can get a 550-mile "charge" in 5 minutes with my ICE’

Whoopey-do for you.
The flip side is that you’ve paid more for it and you’re emitting co2 and other noxious gases whilst you’re doing your 550 miles.
Which you’re presumably doing in one day, whereas the majority of EV drivers are charging whilst they’re asleep.
N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy
‘Difference is I can get a 550-mile "charge" in 5 minutes with my ICE’ Whoopey-do for you. The flip side is that you’ve paid more for it and you’re emitting co2 and other noxious gases whilst you’re doing your 550 miles. Which you’re presumably doing in one day, whereas the majority of EV drivers are charging whilst they’re asleep.

And I'm sure that all EVs are charged with 100% environmentally-friendly electricity and have zero materials in them mined or made using fossil fuels, nasty chameicals or slave/child labour or which are very energy intensive or imporssible to recycle in a green manner...

It's easy virtue-signalling buying an EV if you have the money but there are consequences that others/we all have to bare. They aren't a guilt-free purchase, and likely for the forseeable future not for anyone but the well-heeled.

ICE car owners aren't cackling as they pollute like some arch villain. On the other hand, many EV owners (like some Prius owners 10-20 years ago) like to eulogise about their green credentials when it aisn't as simple or as vrituous as they claim.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - thunderbird

ICE car owners aren't cackling as they pollute like some arch villain. On the other hand, many EV owners (like some Prius owners 10-20 years ago) like to eulogise about their green credentials when it aisn't as simple or as vrituous as they claim.

20 years ago the Prius only preteded to have environmental credentials. Its mpg was no better than a mainstream hatch and the early CVT's were truly dreadful.

In comparison our Octavia PHEV is on a different planet. The more you charge the better your economy (providing you get cheap electricity) but even on a 450 mile trip with no electricity (only what it made itself) ours managed 60 mpg (true) at a speed limit cruise.

And it's getting better as the miles go on.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy

ICE car owners aren't cackling as they pollute like some arch villain. On the other hand, many EV owners (like some Prius owners 10-20 years ago) like to eulogise about their green credentials when it aisn't as simple or as vrituous as they claim.

20 years ago the Prius only preteded to have environmental credentials. Its mpg was no better than a mainstream hatch and the early CVT's were truly dreadful.

In comparison our Octavia PHEV is on a different planet. The more you charge the better your economy (providing you get cheap electricity) but even on a 450 mile trip with no electricity (only what it made itself) ours managed 60 mpg (true) at a speed limit cruise.

And it's getting better as the miles go on.

It's how that electricity is produced that makes the difference, plus all the not very environmentally-friendly methods (and dirty energy cosnumption in developing nations) used to mine all that lovely raw materials used in the EV batteries.

I agree that for certain cars and regular journey patterns, PHEVs are, at present, the best compromise vehicle for many, especially as their (much smaller than pure EV's) batteries don't take that long to charge. Unfortunately they don't come cheap.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - alan1302

It's easy virtue-signalling buying an EV if you have the money but there are consequences that others/we all have to bare. They aren't a guilt-free purchase, and likely for the forseeable future not for anyone but the well-heeled.

No product will ever be totally perfect - but if you are buying new an EV will always be the greener choice...and as the years go by a newer and better tech comes along then they, at least should, get less destuctive to the Earth which can only be a good thing.

A lot of people seem to be in the mindset that EV's should somehow be perfect or else they should not exist and that's an off mindset for people to have...I think people don't like change.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - corax
It's easy virtue-signalling buying an EV if you have the money but there are consequences that others/we all have to bare. They aren't a guilt-free purchase, and likely for the forseeable future not for anyone but the well-heeled.

But exactly the same thing happened with ICE cars, only the rich could afford them until economies of scale made them cheaper.

We are already bearing the consequences. Crop failure (across the world) due to unpredictable weather patterns will make the odd black out seem trivial in comparison, and we won't be able to worm our way out of that one because there are too many of us.

So it's better that people try to make a difference now, otherwise what are you going to do? Carry on as if nothing is happening and bye bye human race.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Andrew-T

<< So it's better that people try to make a difference now, otherwise what are you going to do? Carry on as if nothing is happening and bye bye human race. >>

Of course it is, but everything we do is a new (theoretically and politically) 'better' way to carry on doing all the things we like doing. As you say, there are already too many of us, so without actually trying to correct that problem, we might look for ways to travel less. But we all like to do that ....

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Terry W

Most technological advances come at a premium price which later reduces as manufacturing techniques are improved, products are refined, and volumes increase.

Not just the early motor car (originally a hobby for the wealthy), but computers, smart phones, TVs, led lighting, induction hobs etc etc etc.

Unacceptable is self righteous superiority over those unable to afford new tech and, in respect of EVs, suggesting they are personally guilty of environmental degradation.

Personally I am pleased there are those who have the money and/or commitment to the environment to effectively fund the development of new and better technologies.

Right now I am not prepared (but probably able if I chose) to spend £30k + on an EV. I have other priorities, recharging networks are still a risk, and it does not make financial sense.

In a few years time I will have the opportunity to buy a s/h example with most of the financial, technological and charging network risk avoided. Bring it on!

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy
It's easy virtue-signalling buying an EV if you have the money but there are consequences that others/we all have to bare. They aren't a guilt-free purchase, and likely for the forseeable future not for anyone but the well-heeled.

But exactly the same thing happened with ICE cars, only the rich could afford them until economies of scale made them cheaper.

The difference is that the government didn't subsidise the likes of Lord Grantham to buy his Roller with taxes from Mr Carson who never would be able to afford a car.

We are already bearing the consequences. Crop failure (across the world) due to unpredictable weather patterns will make the odd black out seem trivial in comparison, and we won't be able to worm our way out of that one because there are too many of us.

Far, far more people have been lifted out of poverty (and thus saved from death) by economic growth over the last 20-30 years, not by making every product expensive and out of reach for ordinary folk, let alone the poor from developing nations. The problems in Sri Lanka were caused by following (ironically) the WEF-sponsored sudden shift to organic crops, not 'weather patterns'.

The reason why we're staring (planned) blackouts and water shortages in the face is because we as nations didn't stand up to tyrrany when we should've done and relied to heavily on fossil fuel from despotic regimes when we had the chance to go nuclear and devlop (or not shut down) our own fuel storage facilities, desal plants, etc, etc.

Plus we allowed our populations to grow via immigration (and thus significantly increased demand) for water and power/fuel at the same time and whilst turning a blind eye to the knock-on issues of that and huge societal ones that take resources away from other worthwhile projects.

So it's better that people try to make a difference now, otherwise what are you going to do? Carry on as if nothing is happening and bye bye human race.

Buying a subsidised EV and charger won't save a poor person in Africa. Helping them to find (better paid) work and access to clean water and regular power/fuel and transport will. Bankrupting the world to 'save the planet' (a false premice) will kill far more people. It will, however, make it nice and empty for the rich to enjoy themselves sans queues and those ghastly Plebs, except when they need them to clean their homes, do the gardening or serve them food and drink.

Unfortunately a lot people who currently think they'll be amongst the lucky few if the WEF & Co get their way are deluding themselves, as it will likely only be those at the level of significant millionairres that will have a positive outcome if the globalists get their way.

Yes, we do need to change how we do things, but at a much gentler rate, especially after we've just (unwisely) spent untold $Bns on the pandemic 'response' which has to be paid back and contributed most of the inflationary shock, not the fallout from the Ukraine war.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - alan1302

Buying a subsidised EV and charger won't save a poor person in Africa. Helping them to find (better paid) work and access to clean water and regular power/fuel and transport will. Bankrupting the world to 'save the planet' (a false premice) will kill far more people. It will, however, make it nice and empty for the rich to enjoy themselves sans queues and those ghastly Plebs, except when they need them to clean their homes, do the gardening or serve them food and drink.

Who would have thought it? I thought buying an EV would help poor people in Africa - I am surprised! LOL As you know - although don't want to accept there are no grants/subsidies for EVs now.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Brit_in_Germany

I wonder how the amenities will cope when the 5 million British expats are forced to return to Blighty.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - corax

The reason why we're staring (planned) blackouts and water shortages in the face is because we as nations didn't stand up to tyrrany when we should've done and relied to heavily on fossil fuel from despotic regimes when we had the chance to go nuclear and devlop (or not shut down) our own fuel storage facilities, desal plants, etc, etc.

I don't think water shortages has got anything to do with not standing up to tyranny. It's because the threat of water shortages has only been happening in recent years, and the water companies in some areas have not had to invest in greater storage facilities, but they will have to in the future. East Anglia where I live doesn't have a hosepipe ban yet because they have had to invest in the above over many years as a result of being one of the driest counties in the country. But we will still need decent winter rainfall.

There are also geological advantages in having a clay ground layer, where I would assume that places like Yorkshire lose a lot of potential storage water due to the limestone rock.

Yes, we do need to change how we do things, but at a much gentler rate.

We should have been changing things at a gentle rate for the past 20-30 years. It always takes a crisis before anything happens, but by then it's too late.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Engineer Andy

The reason why we're staring (planned) blackouts and water shortages in the face is because we as nations didn't stand up to tyrrany when we should've done and relied to heavily on fossil fuel from despotic regimes when we had the chance to go nuclear and devlop (or not shut down) our own fuel storage facilities, desal plants, etc, etc.

I don't think water shortages has got anything to do with not standing up to tyranny. It's because the threat of water shortages has only been happening in recent years, and the water companies in some areas have not had to invest in greater storage facilities, but they will have to in the future. East Anglia where I live doesn't have a hosepipe ban yet because they have had to invest in the above over many years as a result of being one of the driest counties in the country. But we will still need decent winter rainfall.

I was mentioning the issue in conjunction with energy - I wasn't specifically linking water shortages to Ukraine/energy 'crisis'. More that many problems that we as nations could easily have dealt with - but didn't - are now coming home to roost.

Maybe I should've added in the term 'respectively' in my comments so the causes or actions not taken (desal plants not getting up and running for dealing with drought conditions, never mind leaks). I hope that clarifies.

There are also geological advantages in having a clay ground layer, where I would assume that places like Yorkshire lose a lot of potential storage water due to the limestone rock.

Yes, we do need to change how we do things, but at a much gentler rate.

We should have been changing things at a gentle rate for the past 20-30 years. It always takes a crisis before anything happens, but by then it's too late.

I would say that the word 'crisis' is being over-used by politicians, the rich/powerful, the media and those in business with a vested interest in changing things to suit their own agendas which is not the same as proposing solutions for the benefit of the public.

Notice how none of the 'solutions' involve these elites cutting back, just us plebs. Odd also how it all licked in just when the pandemic was winding down and the effects (especially monetarily and the human cost of the measures taken to 'combat' it) wre beginning to be felt in a big way.

How convenient to deflect the public's attention away from that to yet another 'crisis' or three where the solution must be found in the golbalist UN's Agenda 21/30, Net Zero and from SPECTRE, ahem, I mean the World Economic Forum and their in no way Bond Villain boss.

Fear is a great way for people in power to force the public to do what they want.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Brit_in_Germany

HWGLL.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - mcb100
‘ And I'm sure that all EVs are charged with 100% environmentally-friendly electricity and have zero materials in them mined or made using fossil fuels, nasty chameicals or slave/child labour or which are very energy intensive or imporssible to recycle in a green manner...’

It’d be phenomenal to have all our electricity from renewables, and we’re slowly getting there, but it’s a long process.
I can’t speak on behalf of all manufacturers of EV’s, but I do know something of the new Renault Megane E-Tech, which, by mass, is 95% able to be repurposed. As batteries reach the end of their 2nd life they’ll be recycled with constituent materials being used for new industrial uses.
Anything unable to be recycled (approx 10%) will be incinerated and the energy produced will be recovered.
Third party audits show no links between the battery supplier (LG Chem) and any sources of cobalt linked with human rights or child abuse issues.
Who knows about the cobalt used in steel production, fuel refining or in billions of laptops or phones, or myriad devices that use lithium ion batteries.
N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Terry W

In the last 10 years renewable energy has grown from less that 2GW to over 8GW. Nuclear and biomass contribute another ~8GW to total demand of ~30GW.

Getting to the point where 80%+ energy is "green" is entirely feasible - although I suspect until storage capability is developed, gas/oil back up will still be needed.

If EV are the environmental future, a "carrot" and/or "stick" is needed or EV sales would not happen. Hence subsidies and legislation to limit the sale of ICE in the future.

That only the relatively wealthy can afford them is reality - those on average and lower income do not typically buy new cars (ICE or EV). As years pass, more s/h EVs will be available and affordable for those less well endowed financially.

Just get used to it - it is they who have the income to afford new cars who typically pay more tax from which subsidies are funded - they are just getting back a little of what they have already paid.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Speedbird 747

In California at the moment, EV owners are being told not to charge their cars until next Tuesday, because of “stresses” in the grid.

Honest John has an article showing how much more it will cost to charge an electric car from the 1st October. For the next three years electricity is going to be in short supply and charging EV’s is going to be severely restricted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/us/california-heat-wave-flex-alert-ac-ev-charging.html

Edited by Speedbird 747 on 01/09/2022 at 21:26

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - alan1302

In California at the moment, EV owners are being told not to charge their cars until next Tuesday, because of “stresses” in the grid.

Honest John has an article showing how much more it will cost to charge an electric car from the 1st October. For the next three years electricity is going to be in short supply and charging EV’s is going to be severely restricted.

Except that's not true.

No reason for there to be shortages in electricity in the UK and there is no way to restrict EV charging (at home). Time to not believe all your friends tell you.

Edited by alan1302 on 01/09/2022 at 21:30

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Adampr

In California at the moment, EV owners are being told not to charge their cars until next Tuesday, because of “stresses” in the grid.

Honest John has an article showing how much more it will cost to charge an electric car from the 1st October. For the next three years electricity is going to be in short supply and charging EV’s is going to be severely restricted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/us/california-heat-wave-flex-alert-ac-ev-charging.html

This is not true. The article in the NYtimes is about the Governor of California asking people not to charge EVs as much because the grid is stressed in the heat - a combination of air conditioners using a lot of power and hot wires being less efficient.

As for how much more it will cost to charge EVs from 1 October, as I already said, precisely £0 more than it does right now in my case.

EVs aren't the panacea, and there are lots of reasonable criticisms (not least the stupidity of carting a massive battery around with you), but arguments that have no basis in fact have no credibility.

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Speedbird 747

In California EV owners are being asked to restrict charging due to the high heat.

https://youtu.be/x68n_fvHDGo

In the UK this winter, electricity will be restricted to EV’s due to the cold.

According to the energy expert, with each winter that goes by, energy black-outs are increasing.

This is due to replacing thermal and nuclear generation with intermittent renewable's - which can 'make us vulnerable', she says, at times when wind output is low.

'We've had quite low wind output throughout July and August and on three separate occasions National Grid have warned we may run out of electricity.

'The demand is a lot higher in the winter because that high pressure weather system is also very cold, which increases heating demand.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11170419/Families-asked-ration-energy-use-WIND-doesnt-blow-avoid-blackouts.html

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/opinion/355458/we-become-more-reliant-electricity-rationing-it-might-be-necessary

The difference between the US and the UK though is that there is no shortage of gas to generate electricity. The UK on the other hand is not self-sufficient in either oil, gas or nuclear. Usually we import gas from Norway, electricity via interconnectors from Norway, Belgium and France. Norway has cut back on its energy exports due to domestic problems and at the moment the UK is exporting 2Gw a day to France, due to problems in the cooling systems of half its nuclear fleet.

https://sports.yahoo.com/french-pm-warns-potential-winter-105023094.html

Power cuts in the U.K. are guaranteed this winter, and the French people have been warned by Macron that they may be cut off. Not a good time to own an EV.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-09/uk-braces-for-blackouts-gas-cuts-in-january-in-emergency-plan

Edited by Speedbird 747 on 01/09/2022 at 22:54

N/A - Will there be restrictions on charging EV’s? - Adampr

"In the UK this winter, electricity will be restricted to EV’s due to the cold."

I absolutely guarantee this will not happen. It isn't physically possible to prevent EVs from being charged.

I don't really understand your agenda here. The apocalypse isn't coming this winter. What's coming is insanely high fuel bills for everyone that isn't on a fixed tariff. That's certainly apocalyptic for a family on Universal Credit, or someone trying to survive on a state pension, but we're not going back to the stone age, having the power switched off or anything like that. If your point is that you don't like EVs, fine, many people don't, but I do hope you're not telling friends and family that our doom is on the horizon.