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From the article.
What is a speed limiter?
It is a safety device that can be fitted in your car so that your vehicle doesn’t cross a certain speed set by you.
Does anything else need to be discussed?.
The van I use for my work has a speed limiter. The buses I used to drive for a living had speed limiters, the LGV's my brother drives for his work and my Dad used to drive for his have speed limiters.
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{Shrugs}
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My thoughts...Salami slicing. First they force speed limiters on you. You don't object as it doesn't seem to be much. And you have control anyway.
Next they take the control from you. Well doesn't seem too much .
Next they impose limits on you but its for your own good and let's say they disable your vehicle on odd number days. If it saves one life..or the planet...
Next who knows what.
I think it's the start of a slippery slope. It's not about safety or eco concerns or puppy dogs or whatever.
It's about control. Globalists control. Just so your aware. It's going to be bad. You won't have a say or any control but try not to look surprised as your life is taken away one bit at a time. Go ahead and laugh but just see how this pans out.
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Exactly, it is the typical “we know better” nanny state in action, bit by bit they chip away at civil liberties, in such a way that it is just enough to avoid a knee jerk reaction from the public. Eventually we are just used to it. Quite why we are not deviating from the EU on this is beyond me. It is perfectly normal for cars to have different spec for different places, even Ireland has its own unique models.
They say the difference between Europe and the USA, is that Europeans tend to think that when they are born, the government gives them some freedom and they are grateful for what they are given. In the USA, they tend to believe they are born free and then the government takes away those inherent freedoms. I like to think we in the UK are closer to the US on this but I guess it depends on political leanings.
Sorry ORB, but aspects of motoring are inherently political. Fuel duty, speed limits, environmental issues, the freedom to drive on green lanes, etc etc.
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Intelligent Speed assist ISA is a new EU legislation effective from the 1st July and it applies to all new cars lorries etc made in the EU. It is difficult to see how the UK can avoid. On a car it uses cameras and sensors to restrict a car exceeding the posted speed limit either by reading road road signs or information from GPS It will have a function to temporary over ride the limit for a short period by further depressing the accelerator.
How this will work in practice when switched on is any ones guess but it looks like freedom of the road is being further eroded.
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ISA will come in gradually, first with newly homologated models and in two years' time with existing models which will have to have it added to standard spec. So rather like DRLs, where similar stages of introduction applied (As I recall, the Seat Altea/Toledo was the very last pre-DRL model for a few years) we will see over time how well or badly this works.
With any luck the sensationalist headlines will cover cars mysteriously slowing down (Disgusted sales executive furious at 5 hour journey from £600,000 home to office 2 miles away; blames "potty" new ISA technology) rather than shooting off out of control, which was a trending topic a few years ago with various problems linked to certain cars' accelerators and cruise controls etc.
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My thoughts...Salami slicing. First they force speed limiters on you. You don't object as it doesn't seem to be much. And you have control anyway.
Next they take the control from you. Well doesn't seem too much .
Next they impose limits on you but its for your own good and let's say they disable your vehicle on odd number days. If it saves one life..or the planet...
Next who knows what.
I think it's the start of a slippery slope. It's not about safety or eco concerns or puppy dogs or whatever.
It's about control. Globalists control. Just so your aware. It's going to be bad. You won't have a say or any control but try not to look surprised as your life is taken away one bit at a time. Go ahead and laugh but just see how this pans out.
So large commercial vehicles having speed limiters, as has been the case for decades, that's no problem. But fit cars with speed limiters and it is the government/shadowy organisations/Russinas/Chinese/whatever taking over our lives?
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I have had speed limiters on my cars for a few years.
I don't use them. Don't use cruise control either as I prefer to keep a good distance back.
But the car does have automatic emergency braking if too close according to speed.
latest car is manual, but has camera that reads speed limit signe, ( when it feels like it ! )
On the automatic versions it can be set as adaptive.
Against that, I am enjoying the 2011 venga without all these "aids"
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Please go easy on the conspiracy theories and the politics,
ORB
Moderator.
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Please go easy on the conspiracy theories and the politics,
ORB
Moderator.
I didn't find it very hard, theoretical, or political.
Just the way things are going.
Technologically assisted surveillance and social control is a fact, and vehicles are at its cutting edge.
Of course in this context it doesn't bother me personally much because (a) I don't drive fast, and (b) I'm not likely to have a vehicle to which its fitted in my remaining lifespan. but if I was a BMW M3 potential punter I guess it would.
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We already have speed limiters filling the major roads all over the country. They are called HGVs.
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Yes and they clog up two lane dual carriageways as there is insufficient speed differential for them to pass each other. In the same way rafts of governed cars will jog along mindlessly in lumps while older cars zip amongst them and trigger their auto braking and safe distance sensors.
Although I don’t like more imposed control its probably inevitable long term and we’ii get used to it. However the period of time where the population of cars is mixed will be “interesting”.
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I never used speed limiter function in my car.
However, I regularly use cruise control and want adaptive cruise control in my next car.
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We already have experience of traffic all flowing at 50mph on motorway work areas. Eight miles currently on the M5 for new barriers. Not easy joining or changing lanes to leave the M Way with everything going at the same speed. No wonder there are frequent shunts and the result is all stop for everyone and hours waiting for the road to be cleared
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I wonder how features like adaptive cruise control, auto emergency braking etc. work in a manual car.
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I have both in my manual Golf. ACC broadly similar to conventional cruise control. It will try to maintain speed and distance as far as the gear you are in allows. If you have to change down a gear some systems disengage, until you prompt it to reset, others will simply apply your speed and distance setting to the new gear and get you back up to speed.
Having had both simple cruise control on several cars and ACC on one I wouldn’t go out of my way to get ACC. On mine it entails two buttons for setting the speed and another one for choosing the distance. It’s a bit if a faff if you only use it occasionally but with regular use it wouldn’t be a problem.
I still prefer the basic cruise control that you can just press one button to maintain current speed with a simple cancel and resume option. So if ACC is a must I suggest a decent test drive to see if the system suits you.
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Any changes made will take ~20 years to be fully integrated - the existing car fleet needs to be either banned or replaced. Failing to implement changes because the transition may be complex is a non-starter - nothing would ever change.
Many have an "emotional" attachment to driving, freedom etc. But objectively cars and roads are just tools to enable mobility. Providing mobility with minimum impact on cost and the environment, with maximum safety is a logical intent and will need speed controls:
- enabled by EVs which will be auto
- self driving cars will happen
- maximising traffic flows on major roads to minimise road investment
- increasing vehicle economy
- reducing accidents
You may not like it, perceive it as an affront to personal freedom, etc and I would agree. But it will happen and creating arguments will limited substance in opposition is a waste of effort.
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“But it will happen and creating arguments will limited substance in opposition is a waste of effort.”
Do you really think civil liberties is an argument of limited substance?
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The London to Brighton vintage car rally is doomed!
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“But it will happen and creating arguments will limited substance in opposition is a waste of effort.” Do you really think civil liberties is an argument of limited substance?
If you were concerned about civil liberties you'd ditch your phone and get off the internet. You're being tracked even if you aren't using the phone.
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<< If you were concerned about civil liberties you'd ditch your phone and get off the internet. You're being tracked even if you aren't using the phone. >>
Nope - my phone sits in my living room, not in my pocket :-)
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‘I wonder how features like adaptive cruise control, auto emergency braking etc. work in a manual car.’
Same as they do in an automatic.
Edited by mcb100 on 06/07/2022 at 19:36
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... they clog up two lane dual carriageways as there is insufficient speed differential for them to pass each other.
Would allowing them to race really be that much better ?
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<< I didn't find it very hard, theoretical, or political. Just the way things are going. Technologically assisted surveillance and social control is a fact, and vehicles are at its cutting edge. >>
There will always be arguments about where to set the balance between anarchy and total coercion, so there will always be whingers complaining that their right to do as they please has been infringed further. With the density of today's traffic, could we really suggest a reversal to the very old days when my father claimed to have done a ton down Aston Clinton hill on his 1930 Ariel ?
Of course there is no genuine reason why someone might not do 120mph on a clear motorway in the middle of the night, other than the posted limit. Don't forget that GPS tracking has some positive uses too - which the complainers MIGHT just be grateful for in some circs.
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So large commercial vehicles having speed limiters, as has been the case for decades, that's no problem. But fit cars with speed limiters and it is the government/shadowy organisations/Russinas/Chinese/whatever taking over our lives?
I just find it funny that people think that there are governments out there that can do such clever thinking and control like this...you just need to watch the news to see they are not that bright.
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So large commercial vehicles having speed limiters, as has been the case for decades, that's no problem. But fit cars with speed limiters and it is the government/shadowy organisations/Russinas/Chinese/whatever taking over our lives?
I just find it funny that people think that there are governments out there that can do such clever thinking and control like this...you just need to watch the news to see they are not that bright.
Especially so when it comes to technology, they don't have a good record!
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Thing with traffic sign recognition is, ( if mines anything to go by) it’s a bit hit and miss, sometimes it works perfectly, other times it doesn’t read the signs at all, I can go to work for example, and it will read the 20mph in my road, increasing to 30mph, but it doesn’t read the 40 and 70 on the dual carriageway I need to use, it only starts again when I come to a village with a 30 limit, going out to a 60 limit and back to 30, however, it reads all the signs on the way home no problem, not sure if it’s my particular system I have on my car ( ford) or if they all do this…
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My sat nav seems accurate to within a couple of yards. It shows the speed limit correctly ~98% of the time - exceptions mainly where there are recent changes to limits or roads.
Speed limit signs are easily missed - dirty, obscured by vegetation, vandalised etc - or simply due to other distractions or when overtaking. Most of us are capable of guessing a likely limit - eg: urban, m/way, dual carriage way, rural road etc..
In 20 years time speed limit signs will be all but completely obsolete - replaced by sat nav displays which 99.9% of the time are accurate.
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My sat nav seems accurate to within a couple of yards. It shows the speed limit correctly ~98% of the time - exceptions mainly where there are recent changes to limits or roads.
Speed limit signs are easily missed - dirty, obscured by vegetation, vandalised etc - or simply due to other distractions or when overtaking. Most of us are capable of guessing a likely limit - eg: urban, m/way, dual carriage way, rural road etc..
In 20 years time speed limit signs will be all but completely obsolete - replaced by sat nav displays which 99.9% of the time are accurate.
Relying on the satnav to determine speed limits would require ALL cars to get frequent FREE map updates - yes it's technically possible but commercially unlikely.
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I do have a free satnav which gets free updates. I have no idea how they manage to do it. Magic Earth which I got from Google play store for my android phone. It's pretty good in the whole.
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I havenoticed that SatNav speed limits are not up to date with 'temporary' motorway roadworks limits, either not showing the temporary limit or showing it after it has gone.
So I don't 100% trust what the SatNav shows.
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More bloatware to push up the price of new cars and create work for mechanics when the systems fail. Wonder if this "feature" is / will be included in the MOT?
Also wonder if the system relies on on-board cameras what would be the result if the cameras no longer worked, or lens got covered up by dirt? Can they reliably read temporary speed limit signs (including the return to normal limit signs)?
Clearly the aim is to improve road safety, whether this is achieved only time will tell. Likewise will it stop boy racers or overly cautious drivers proceeding well below the speed limit creating congestion for others? (Doubt it!)
Another factor that concerns me is the potential to make journeys take even longer, there are so many areas of life where the result of actions is not properly & fully considered by those making these decisions (or perhaps indifference reigns?). Some 20 mph zones fall into this category.
If safety is the prime concern then I still consider the regular re-testing of all motorists to be essential. Say every 10 years, at the time of licence renewal. Banned until re-tested if fail.
Edited by Smileyman on 08/07/2022 at 21:20
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will it stop boy racers or overly cautious drivers proceeding well below the speed limit creating congestion for others? (Doubt it!)
Obviously it will not stop overly cautious drivers proceeding well below the limit because they already do, otherwise they wouldn't be described as overly cautious!. And why would it cause any other driver to drive well below the limit, there is a speedometer in the car.
Another factor that concerns me is the potential to make journeys take even longer
Perish the thought that the journeys of someone who habitually exceeds the speed limit take longer!
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My car has a speed limiter, you press a button on the steering wheel and it sticks to the speed you are going, handy in those "average speed check" areas in roadworks.
I'm unsure if the number who overtake exceeding the 'average speed 50', don't understand the meaning of average or just think the cameras only check at points.
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My car has a speed limiter, you press a button on the steering wheel and it sticks to the speed you are going, handy in those "average speed check" areas in roadworks. I'm unsure if the number who overtake exceeding the 'average speed 50', don't understand the meaning of average or just think the cameras only check at points.
That probably includes me! 55 mph on my speedo is 54 mph using a GPS device which is within the APCO/NPCC guidelines for 50 mph average limit.
Apart from the complete i**** with total disregard for speed limits, I find that most car drivers are slower than me in 50 mph limits, probably because their speedo's are more optimistic and read 50 when they're only doing 46 - the HGVs don't seem to have any issue using the 56 limiter in those conditions.
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<< I find that most car drivers are slower than me in 50 mph limits, probably because their speedo's are more optimistic and read 50 when they're only doing 46 - the HGVs don't seem to have any issue using the 56 limiter in those conditions. >>
Presumably the regs for speedos still require accuracy within -0 and +10% of true speed ? I also find most drivers limit themselves to what I assume is an indicated, rather than a true, speed - which means that on a long multi-lane stretch I can pass most of them without worry in my 28-year-old car with mechanical odometer.
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When it comes to speed most folk allow emotion, not rationality, to rule their behaviours.
Assume m/way average speed limit is (say) 50mph for 10 miles during maintenance. Come up behind a car at 47mph resolutely following their indicated speed of 50mph.
Additional time taken to clear the roadworks at 47mph rather than 50mph - 45 seconds.
Just chill - getting angry, heart pumping, waiting to swap lanes to go past, etc risks a whole lot more than less than a minutes delay!
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