Wear your badge with pride! Who cares? What do you call your car, he she or IT?

Wear your badge with pride! Who cares? What do you call your car, he she or IT?

The cars are they or them. IIRC it's now the same with Ships.

How can anything singular be they or them? One car is It How can one Jordan be they? Not the sort of grammar which I am familiar with.

Common sense has gone out of the window and minority groups including protesters are trying to dictate. Who cares? Well I do!

People with strange obsessions may ask to be called what they want. I shall continue to use the pronouns which seem appropriate, doing so in an inoffensive manner. If anyone objects I shall tell them/him/her/whoever to get stuffed, citing centuries of precedent.

<< How can anything singular be they or them? >>

Well, it has been acceptable English for some time in certain constructions - as in my sentence above : "If anyone objects I shall tell them ...." 'Anyone' is presumably singular ?

That doesn't sound 'wrong' to me, but perhaps picky people would always say 'him or her' would they ?

You might say anyone because you do not know what sex they might be equally you may be referring to lots of people. Similarly with them you might not know whether male or female or again could be referring to more than one.

""""Jordan has an art display, in real life they don't work for the Halifax. They're showing at Gallery X in London.

What's wrong in putting it that way?"""""

Nothing at all wrong except how many people are not working for H or how many people are showing at the gallery? Clear as mud to me!

Usage of they/them as either singular or plural is acceptable for a long time.

I noticed this first by looking at some certificates. Before computer printing era, certificates were pre-formatted and recipient's names were added at the last moment.

Since one can't predict how many boys/girls would be there, certificates were typically printed as "they".

Personally I think any language does not really require gender specific pronouns. At least English has gender neutral "the".

The sentences quoted mean that Jordan is not working for Halifax and has an exhibition at Gallery X.

Only someone who is being deliberately obtuse would interpret the words in any other way.

Interpret as you wish but do not insult my take on the somewhat obscure original sentences. Jordan may be male or female so why not just use the pronoun that most would recognise He or She or maybe he/she is transgender in which case most people haven't a clue how they should be addressed pronoun badge or not! Maybe it should be " they" as " they" are a mix of both gender as their birth gender has been changed. Sadly these people will never be wholly one gender or another even though their sexual parts may have been changed.

I can't see it's anything to get worked up about. Live and let live. Anyone who gets worked up about it is probably a Daily Mail reader.

Interpret as you wish but do not insult my take on the somewhat obscure original sentences. Jordan may be male or female so why not just use the pronoun that most would recognise

Jordan was born male; now in late twenties. They're not content with either of the binary pronouns you think most would recognise.

They may subsequently undergo hormone treatment and identify as she.

With, or without, changes 'downstairs', how does that affect you or anybody else?

II agree with you it does not. Thank you for expanding Jordan's story. I have already expressed my sympathy for people who find themselves in this position and I am sure Jordan is a thoroughly good human being. Within the last few years people in Jordan's situation have been dragged along on a tide of false hope by some in the medical profession . Some are being led to believe that an operation and then being stuffed full of hormones will solve their concerns of their inner self. I am thankful that I have not experience these concern and I do not think anyone can really get into another's mind. I think people should be more honest with themselves and a different pronoun only serves to draw attention in my view.

Only the other week a Doctor in the transgender field was suspended for not adequately counselling their patients. The rapid expansion of transgender surgery is the next disaster awaiting the NHS and there are already MPs calling for a rapid slow down in this field

"... my take on the somewhat obscure original sentences."

Your take is not what people would usually think the sentences meant. You're making an issue where there is none and I suspect the real agenda is not about language.

"Jordan may be male or female so why not just use the pronoun that most would recognise He or She or maybe he/she is transgender in which case most people haven't a clue how they should be addressed pronoun badge or not!"

That is exactly why "they" was used, to avoid upsetting anyone. You have just used "they" yourself, which illustrates the point.

The conversation has moved on since you have quoted the above. We have learned that he is indeed Male by birth My use of THEY was entirely in the plural as the sentence was obscure and the sex of Jordan was not apparent.. ONE individual cannot be plural in my view, He or she may call themselves what they wish. Again you make insinuations where none exist. I make that perfectly clear in my previous post. I wonder what Jordan's mum and dad call him, perhaps "I love you son" and when someone asks them how Jordan is the reply is probably ""he is fine"

Edited by sammy1 on 06/07/2022 at 13:04

"My use of THEY was entirely in the plural"

Of course it wasn't. Your sentence is about Jordan. You refer to the individual as "he or she" and then switch to "they".

"Jordan may be male or female so why not just use the pronoun that most would recognise He or She or maybe he/she is transgender in which case most people haven't a clue how they should be addressed..."

I do wonder if you know what you're talking about when it comes to grammar.

Oh do give it a rest! That makes 3 personal insults, more than enough for anyone. Where are the moderators when you need them

Edited by sammy1 on 06/07/2022 at 15:38

I have to admit I'm not really up to speed with the increasingly common use of he/him/she/her, it seems to have really become popular in the last couple of years at work with people putting it at the bottom of their emails by their name. I'm firmly of the view that people can put what they feel comfortable with, it has no impact on me.

However, I think we've probably extracted all we can from this subject so time to put it to bed.